User talk:Mehrdadd
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[edit] It is kind of you if you are teasing me
My discussion with GM was a discussion just to find actual accuracy, not a debate to prove my idea. If it is a Turkic word, I do not hesitate to accept it, but I need to study more about this subject, I do not want to talk without any references. Now, I am trying to track this word in Indo-European languages. If this word exists in old Indo-European languages, it supports that it has a Indo-European origin. If not it is a Altaic word. By the way, at the moment I found a word in Sanskrit(old Indian) that seems to be related to word ordu, but I want to make sure about it. But you know that the oldest mention of this word was in Iranian books and I could not find any older reference for his word in Turkic texts. --Behmod 13:41, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Behmod , I was just amused that how dishonest your so called scholarly discussion is going. I am Iranian too and know Farsi, so seeing the Turk and Turks all over those lines of that peom and seeing how you managed to translate Turk to the beautiful made me smile and shake my head. Please don't tell me the Turk in Farsi vocabulary means beautiful. If you have seen it in any Persian dictionary please let me know.
I am an Azeri and while ago one of Persian users here im Wikipedia asked me how come with a name such as "Mehrdad" I am taking anti Iranian stance. I explained that i am not anti Iranian , in fact I have both Persian and Turkish background, as it goes for ancestry, but the truth is when i see how group of my own country men, trying to cover the truths and conspire to spread mis information I can't help but to be outraged. I find my Turkish friends are much more brave with Truth and I am only taking the side of the truth.
As for the word Ordu, looking at my very average Readers Digest dictionary, under the word horde, it says: 1. A multitude, pack, or swarm, as of people, animals, insects, etc. 2. A tribe or clan of nomadic Mongols. 3. Any nomadic tribe or group. -v.i horded, hording To gather or live in a a horde. [<F<G<Polish horda < Turkish ordu campAkin to Urdu.
The name Urdu as the language in Pakistan is also derived from the same word (Ordu), since this language has been created in the course Turku Mongol rule of Moguls in Indian sub continent. It has Hindustani, Persian, Arabic, and to a lesser extent Turkish influences.
Hope it helps. Mehrdad 15:35, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
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- Dear Friend, Please be a patient researcher not an aggressive man. I hope you did not intend to have a sarcastic language.
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- 1- It seems that you have forgotten a basic rule about Persian literature and Sufis language. Look at poems of Hafez and Khajavi Kermani to understand my translation is correct. You may know that in Persian poetry and Sufis language words Wine, Turk, Drunk, Drunken...have special meanings. If you are still insist that my translation is wrong, I can bring some more examples.
حافظ چو ترک غمزه ي ترکان نمي کني
صائب تبريزی: اگر آن ترک شيرازی به دست آرد دل ما را به خال هندويش بخشم سر و دست و تن و پا را
هر آن‌کس چيزی می‌بخشد ز مال خويش می‌بخشد نه چون حافظ که می‌بخشد سمرقند و بخارا را
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- 2- Yes, you are right, many linguists believe that "Horde" has Altaic origin, but it is interesting that they believe "Herd" (and also Herde-Heorde-Kheordu) has has Indo-European origin. But it is very confusing for me because they are very similar and I am trying to hunt the reality. It is my hypothesis that "Herd" or "Horde" have the same origins. But at this moment I can NOT say for sure that I am right and I need more research. See that did not try again to change the name Ordubad.
- 3- You talked about the Turki Mongols in India sub continent. But remember that their official language were Persian not Turkish.
Good luck, --Behmod 17:21, 1 June 2006 (UTC)--Behmod 17:21, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
::Hey Mehrdad, To end this discussion. I send you a link to complete version of Khajoo's poem [1]. Hope you enjoy it. Do not say that in "دو تا پيوسته چون ابروي ترکان" or in "نظر کن در خم گيسوي ترکان"
"ترکان" do not mean beauty or as you said means warriors ;)--Behmod 18:22, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi Behmod, thanks for the link. You are quite write, in this poem we are dealing with a name Tarkan (تَرکان،also طرخان ). It is a female name and in poems it is used symbolically meaning girls, women . My apologies for getting this wrong and accusing you of being unfair in translation. As you know Tarkan and Torkan when written without the diacritical marks can cause this problem. So تُرکان as the plural for Turk , can be mistaken by the name تَرکان which means beautiful girl or women in this case.
Rumi has used both words in the same line of his poem in Mathnavi, as: کار هر نازک دلی نبود قِتال -- که گریزد از خیالی چون خیال کارِ تُرکانست نه تَرکان، برو -- جایِ تَرکان هست خانه، خانه شو
Which roughly translate to: The war is not for the faint hearted, and day dreamer, This is for Turks (worriers) and not beautiful women, place of the women is in house.
This name, Tarkan تَرکان is not the plural for “Tark” تَرک as it is an individual name. Interestingly a popular Turkish male singer has adopted this name as his stage name.
Thanks again for your patience with me. Mehrdad 15:44, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
No problem Mehrdad, This discussion was also useful for me. I also learnt new things.--Behmod 16:22, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Azerbaijani people
Hello. I was wondering if you could help me with the Azeris article. I need pictures of ordinary Azeris to use for the article and I was wondering if you knew of any that could be used without copyright problems. I'm still in the middle of fixing what was a terribly disjointed article and it'll be a while before it's fixed. Anyway, let me know. Thanks. Tombseye 17:22, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- Hello again. Any advice and info. on Azeris in Iranian cinema? I need to add a little about this topic to the Azeris section on culture. Your input would be appreciated. Thanks. Tombseye 19:43, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Azeri wikiproject
Hello. How can I participate in Azeri wikiproject?--Dr.Hamed 01:55, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi Dr.Hamed, My Apologies for delayed response. You can find the goals and introductions to Azeri project at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Azeri. The participation in the project can be through the involvements in discussions and improvements of the Azerbaijan related articles. Actually looking at the page, I see you have listed yourself as the participants, and that is a very good start. Thanks for showing interest. Sağolun .Mehrdad 13:04, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] WTF are you doing?
Tlak: Tajik and Mehrdadd
What is your game? What are you doing? You cannot put statements like 1/3 of the population of Tehran are Azeri without providing proof! Why 1/3 of Tehran is Azeri? Tehran like all other metropolitan cities is a mix of all walk of life in Iran and must be a rational representation of all the population! And that cannot be 1/3!
By the way what does [citation needed] mean? If something is not supported with proof must be deleted till proof is provided! Will it be accepted if I said half the population of Iran is Kurd? Wouldn’t people laugh at us?
Didcuss NOW! Kiumars 15:30, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Mehrdadd, I already presented my data and the proof that the numbers do not add up!I also have it in spreadsheet format that can send if need be. Ethnologue figures are wrong and they have admitted to it as demonstrated (in the emails) and they are going to change it! They have totally fucked up and nobody (even the fucking academics!) has even checked their figures last 8 years!
You said “relaiable studies by academic and other sources”, you have used two figures one from CIA that says 24% (roughly 16 million) and the other one from Ethnologue that says 24 million and I have proved above that Ethnologue is wrong! So what figures have the Academics provided and where are the figures and reference to them? Just saying roughly one third of Iran is Azeri is not acceptable no matter whom that statement comes from be it Academics or illiterates! We need figures and proofs.
Mehhrdadd as you know this is a very sensitive issue and that is why as you said many people want to have a finger in it but on the wiki we must only follow facts a and figures not guess and rumours.
If people read the page without NPOV and Factual dispute they may think there is no dispute on it and take it for fact! We must keep the signs to let people know that there are disputes on the article!
[edit] Regarding the Turkic Theory
Why is no one wanting to discuss that? if no one wants to discuss it, i will eventually take it out, because like i said, its wrong information. i dont know what your personal opinions are, but i would appreciate it if you (and hopefully you can get others) to come and discuss that issue. thanks in advance. like you said in your last edit on the page, lets talk about issue before we take action, that is what i prefer, but if no one talks to me, i have no choice.Iranian Patriot 02:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] When are we going to sort out this mess? What is the next step?
Re: Azerbaijani People (Please discuss before editing) Mehrdadd you keep removing the Factual dispute sign, as you can see from the discussions Ali and me dispute the accuracy of the Ethnologue figures on Iranian Azaris and have provided proofs and analysis on the discussion page. So, what is the next step? When are we going to put the sign up? Meanwhile everyday hundreds if not thousands of people read the article and are made to believe that what they read is fact. Only those who contribute to Wiki know how articles are managed and compiled, majority of the readers believe what is on the page is the final product and a fact. We (well at this stage you actually) are misleading people by not warning them about the fact that there are disputes on the article. Misleading and misrepresentation is a crime in any civil society. When are we going to put the sign up? When are we going to sort out this mess? What is the next step? What is your authority on this article? Kiumars 09:04, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Siberian" Wikipedia
Hello! Recently, you cast a vote against closure of the "Siberian" Wikipedia, basing it on the supposed existence of the "Siberian language" with millions of speakers. Perhaps the issue was misunderstood. There is no Siberian language or Siberian nation, apart from the native Turkic and other peoples who lived there long before Russian colonists arrived in the 16th century. The matter in question is an artificial "language" created based on several archaic Russian dialects in 2005 by a Mr. Zolotarev and a few of his friends, inclusion of which fairly blatantly violates the No Original Research policy of Wikipedia. Siberian Slavs speak Russian and list themselves on censuses as Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusans - this you can verify for yourself. I invite you to return to participate in the discussion and reconsider your vote, and appreciate constructive debate on the topic. Cossack 00:01, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
