Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Complaints/Archive 2

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Contents 1 Mediator does not respond 2 Intimidation of the Mediator 3 Non-neutral Mediator and harassment case 4 RFC

[edit] Mediator does not respond

I've noticed that User:Soltak doesn't seem to be responding to mediation requests to which he has been assigned, such as Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-02-14 In Search of Lost Time (which is two months old). This person is obviously not a quality mediator. Guermantes 20:02, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I also have a mediation request currently up for several days which has gone ignored. Pacian 06:42, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Intimidation of the Mediator

I think the mediator in my case, Tmorton166, has done a commendable job. He has had to put up with the same sorts of aggression and bullying that my adversary has inflicted on me. Accordingly, and unfortunately, I believe the mediator has been intimidated by this adversary into siding with him, as the adversary has made it clear that he will fight anyone who stands in his way, mediator or no.

The mediator is young (19) and new to this, and I believe he has, understandably, been intimidated by my adversary who has apparantly a great deal of experience in fighting other Wikipedians.

I have sought clarification of the mediator's verdict but have not yet received any, though my adversary has "clarified" it for me yet again by restating the position he came in with regardless of what the mediator has to say. Case: Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2006-05-28_Editor_abuse_and_threats --Ewrobbel 15:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you after reviewing the case file. Tmorton166 did a good job. Geo.plrd 22:26, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Non-neutral Mediator and harassment case

Now, basically, I do not wish to escalate this nerve-wrecking case much further, but I would like to encourage the other members of the mediation cabal to look into this case and hopefully prevent such travesties in the future.

Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-06-04 Cisgender was initially brought forward by User:Catamorphism in what would have seemed a valid complaint if said Catamorphism would not have invited User:FemVoice to comment as well, knowing fully well that said FemVoice has hysterically persecuted me for weeks, practically since she came to WP. FemVoice immediately responded with a mindless rant that consisted of very little facts, but lots of slander and lies. ([1], refuting of the most obvious slander and lies: User:AlexR/060607.) Granted, after that I was seriously pissed off. Understandably angry, I blanked the page twice completely, wishing to obliterate this slander and lies. (I should, in hindsight, just either have removed her rand, demanding facts (which are not exactly there) or immediately escalated the case to formal dispute resolutions.) That was probably when User:Usrnme h8er decided that whatever I did was proov that I was the bad guy or something. He threatened me with blocking me, making it clear that he didn't give a damn about thruth or facts as long as I was on the recieving end of lies and slander and threats. And after that, he had the audacity to propose himself as a mediatior, after making it very clear on whose side he was. (For example [2]) I refused, not only because this was or at the very least had become a decidedly bad-faith case, but because the would-be mediator (can't be bothered to recall that cryptic username) was so obviously not neutral.

After cooling off somewhat, I decided not to lend credit to this harassment and slander case and removed all my contributions, which, I may say, is, under the circumstances and because this is hardly an article or even a talk page, perfectly justified. I also inserted the link above to my refutation of FemVoices lies and slander. And what happens? FemVoice restores them, and the would-be moderator (shouldn't a moderator be accepted by both sides?) then (!) deletes the slander rant and my contributions (including the refutation of said rant and all my comments) and then closes the case and still claims that all the lies and slander where perfectly factually accurate and that I was the bad guy here by refusing to participate in this travesty, lying some more about me, as well, for example by claiming that I "continually" blanked the page, and that he did not see any slander and lies. [3]

Now, after having been harassed by FemVoice for almost 2 weeks, since the day she came to WP, I certainly was not in a good mood, and may have behaved less than perfectly. However, from somebody who claims to be a moderator, I expect at least a semblance of neutrality, and not a participation in such harassment. I also expect mediation cases not to be abused to harass, lie about, and slander a person, no matter whether that person's nerves gave way before such a harassment. I therefore would very much like to encourage the mediation cabal to put up guidelines to prevent such abuses of cases and by would-be moderators in the future.

I may also say that if FemVoice or the would-be moderator continue to harass me, I will escalate this case, even though I am sick and tired of it. So far the only thing this constant harassment has attained is that I had to (hopefully temporary) abandon my username with a few thousand edits and a history dating back to 2002 to escape this. Even if one looses ones nerves after weeks of harassment, that should not be necessary. And it should certainly not be supported by a would-be mediatior. -- AlexR 09:53, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RFC

Hmm, I'm not at all sure whether I'm in the right place; I do not really want to complain about anyone, at this point, but I'm wondering whether what I've seen so far is a typical mediation process:

• there's a discussion between two editors
• someone thinks it's time to call in the cabal, and posts a mediation request
• virtually simultaneously, [one of the discussing parties storms off], which traditionally is considered a way to end discussions
• the mediator arrives and archives the talk page (thanks!), including the bits the mediation is about (uh .. okay)
• the mediator declares the page to be in lockdown. Upon request for clarification, he says what amounts to "it's voluntary, of course, but if you don't comply, that's going down on your permanent record and will be used against you in later stages"
• when I express my puzzlement about this, the mediator apppears to storm off himself

At this point, I'm just glad that talk page doesn't have a door people can slam ...

Again, this isn't really a complaint. I understand the mediators are putting a lot of time in, so maybe it's helpful to describe how a specific mediation process appears to a "participant" (I guess?) Is this typical? Is that how people intend it to be?

I frankly don't see how "informal mediation" and threats of, essentially, "if you don't do as I say you'll just lose the arbitration case" go together. Wouldn't it be better just to give the mediation cabal real authority, then, so I don't have to "argue" with them to find out why I should do as they say?

Can anyone help my understanding of the process here?

RandomP 18:50, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Hm, yes, the occurence of events there does seem quite confusing. The Mediation Cabal is currently undergoing a slow transition to a more community-driven form of mediation, so that may have led to some confusion on the part of the mediator. However, the archival of the relevant discussion does look a tad drastic. I will speak with Ideogram concerning this to see if he can clarify what happened exactly. Cowman109^Talk 21:38, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I am of course new to mediating and I welcome your guidance. I have been working closely with two other mediators, jbolden1517^Talk, and Kcordina ^Talk .

In my first case, jbolden recommended I clean up the talk page here, and I assumed that advice would apply to any other talk page I encountered that was overly long.

I also approached that case quite gingerly here. In response Kcordina posted this; as I took on more cases I started being more assertive.

I have been applying these two bits of advice in every case I have taken since then, and this is the first time anyone has complained.

Before I address RandomP's points individually, I would like to ask all parties concerned to assume good faith. I think this is at the heart of the misunderstanding.

I thought that asking participants to refrain from editing was standard procedure when entering an edit war. Although RandomP later objected to my use of the term it was the term used in the filing and upon my arrival I observed that the last edit was less than a day old.

My exact wording was:

• I have no power and cannot give orders. Should you be unable to reach a compromise by your own efforts (with my guidance) you will have to move to a higher form of dispute resolution. However, any party that does not show a good faith effort to solve the problem here will be at a disadvantage in later stages

I honestly did not see this as a threat. I saw it as a simple statement of fact that hopefully would motivate all participants to cooperate.

I actually made two attempts to clarify, here and here.

At this point RandomP posted this.

Please note the following:

• RandomP apparently wanted to argue over the use of the term edit war.
• RandomP assumed I was threatening him, a failure to assume my good faith.
• I certainly should have explained better why formal Mediation and the Arbitration Committe look favorably on parties that make a good faith effort to resolve disputes through informal mediation, with a link to the appropriate policy.
• RandomP tried to quote policy at me, which I interpreted as trying to tell me how to do my job.
• RandomP asked me to justify my recommendation, innocuous enough by itself but in combination with the above it seemed like a further attempt to tell me how to do my job.
• RandomP offered his opinion that two of my statements "might be unhelpful things to say". This was certainly an attempt to tell me how to do my job.

In response I posted this. I admit it seems blunt and impatient, but I was trying to assert control by exercising the only power I have; the right to leave. I hope you agree that in order to mediate I must be able to have some control. But there are many people who just don't like being controlled.

At this point I already knew that RandomP did not feel there was a problem there worthy of mediation. He felt that since his opponent "stormed off" the conflict was over. I observed that his opponent had been gone less than a day and counseled him to be patient but he did not agree. So I simply forced the issue by offering to leave. RandomP accepted my offer. My closing comment was this. Short, but I don't quite see how it can be characterized as "storming off".

Fundamentally if RandomP doesn't want to follow the recommendations of a mediator, then there can be no mediation. The mediator is supposed to be a neutral party able to advise both sides. If one (or both) of the sides turns it into an argument with the mediator then another mediator will have to be brought in (ad infinitum ...).

It was quite clear that RandomP did not feel my presence was necessary, so I tried to waste the minimum amount of time in the situation possible.

Please note that I am still in contact with the requestor of the mediation and working to address his concerns here.

Cowman has made some recommendations on my talk page already which I appreciate and will follow.

I apologize for any mistakes I have made and any resulting misunderstanding. Ideogram 23:15, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Whoa. Please let me just ask that if you read Ideogram's summaries of what I allegedly said, you also check his link to what I actually said.

As for my part, I should have made clearer that the summary above was how things seemed to me, not necessarily what I thought was really intended at the other end.

RandomP 11:21, 18 June 2006 (UTC)