Talk:Measure word
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Contents |
[edit] Classifiers
The Classifier page redirects to "Measure word", but I'm not sure if this must be so. A measure word is a specific type of classifier, but are all classifiers used exclusively for counting? I know that that's the case with Japanese and Mandarin, but I'd like to see examples of classifiers that are not measure words, if there are any. -- Pablo D. Flores 11:40, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- You are right. Those Chinese words are not measure words but noun classifiers. This article should be merged with noun classifier. - TAKASUGI Shinji 05:47, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
-
- There are other classificatory systems. Classification of nouns (or events??) doesnt necessarily have to entail semantic number. Allan (1977) identifies 4 different language types:
-
-
- numeral classifier langs (e.g. Thai)
- concordial classifier langs (e.g. Bantu, many Australian langs, Oceanic langs)
- predicate classifier langs (e.g. Athabaskan langs)
- intra-locative classifier langs (e.g. Toba, Eskimo, Dyirbal)
-
-
- (see Southern_Athabaskan_languages#Classificatory_Verbs for examples of the predicate type). reading Allan is highly recommended. peace — ishwar (SPEAK) 23:27, 2005 May 7 (UTC)
-
- references:
- Allan, Keith. (1977). Classifiers. Language, 53, 2, 285-311.
- references:
[edit] Chinese nouns, language comparison
2002.05.25: Cleaned up and moved discussion from Talk to count noun article. -- pgdudda
Well, I disagree with the description of the Chinese nouns as count nouns. Even though you can count something ( pieces of furniture ) doesn't mean that it is grammatically a count noun. Because the use of the measure word is mandatory, this is grammatically equivalent to saying that all the nouns are mass nouns. I'll bet linguists have strong opinions ( on both sides) of this one. I don't speak Mandarin, so I didn't change anything even though I was tempted.
Anyway, I reformatted so that the language comparison comes after the introduction and the examples. Contrasting languages may be the reason why we notice these grammatical points, but the contrast isn't necessary to define and explain, and I think ( in the English wikipedia anyway ) that beginning with examples in English is more straightforward. -- Olof
[edit] Comparison with grammatical gender?
In some respects, grammatical gendering and measure words are similar, but different, and my understanding is that there are few, if any, languages that use both. English is rare in that it uses neither, but most European languages are gendered, and most Asian languages are counted. Does anyone know enough linguistic theory to discuss the implications of this somewhere? Bigpeteb 16:11, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Number is more important than noun classes. I read somewhere that a language with noun classes always has number, and number and noun classifiers usually don't coexist. English is not exceptional, because it has number and no noun classifier. - TAKASUGI Shinji 06:14, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Sorry about all the edits on 2004-11-04 (17:51, 18:02, and 18:04). I realized I hadn't logged in after I saved the page, and the precess of attaching myself to the edit got kinda messy. --Vishahu 22:07, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
[edit] merge to classifier
i added the merger notice. although measure words are not the same as classifiers, most of the text in this article goes with "classifier". Benwing 04:03, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Factual inaccuracies?
In contrast to the above examples from English, Chinese measure words are obligatory with enumeration of all count nouns; "yī rén" in modern Chinese is grammatically incorrect.
Contrary to what is written, "yī rén" is an acceptable phrase in modern Chinese. eg. 他一人闯进了门. Though I admit this isn't really talking about "a person barged in the door" but "he barged in the door alone". Still, the claim that "yī rén" is grammatically incorrect is false. Maybe for measure words, but not in the whole language. Besides, in classical Chinese it is definitely acceptable, eg. 三人行必有我师.
-- Миборовский U|T|C|E 06:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Quantifier
Is quantifier synonymous to measure word? --Abdull 14:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
