User talk:McKhan

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You have new messages (last change).

DO NOT delete the contents of article Talk pages! Zoe 05:26, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Do NOT repost that article

DO NOT repost the article as I am the copyright owner of that article.

Not any more. Once you clicked "save page" you released it to Wikipedia and GFDL. It's now the property of Wikipedia and its editors, to do with as we see fit. Zoe 05:34, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

You have been blocked for 24 hours for repeated vandalism. When your block expires, please learn how to deal with other users in a civil manner and learn how to participate properly in the Wikipedia community. Zoe 05:36, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] You MUST add the following line....

Then you must add

Copyright © 2005 Ali Khan - http://www.AliKhan.org

NO, we must not. That is in violation of GFDL. Please read up on GFDL. This article is no longer yours to claim. Zoe 06:49, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] It doesn't change the fact that I am the Author of that article

Nevertheless, It doesn't change the fact that I am the Author of that article...

I did NOT give permission to any of the editor of WikiPedia under any license or cirumstances to edit that article NOR I realeased that article under ANY Free License, knowingly, to WikiPedia.org or its affiliates.

Sorry, but you did. Every time you click Save Page, you buy into the Wikipedia contract underneath the edit box:
All contributions to any page on Wikipedia are released under the GNU Free Documentation License (see Project:Copyrights for details).
If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, do not submit it.
Which bit of that didn't you understand? Tearlach 23:27, 16 August 2005 (UTC)


hi, about your question, the answer is no. I did not take part to the writing.--equitor 02:13, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Muslimunity

You don't have to respond to anything Muslimunity says about you. --Phroziac (talk) 03:07, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Copyedit

Please stop removing the {{copyedit}} tag from the articles about Pashtun tribes. All it means is that some native English-speaker will go through them and correct the grammar. It's not going to mess up the articles. --Khoikhoi 20:47, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Don't worry... Those articles are good...

Don't worry.. Those articles are good... There are no "native" speakers of English. It is on the record that most of the "native" English speakers FAIL in English.

McKhan

I'm a native English speaker. What do you mean there aren't any? --Khoikhoi 07:32, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Does that make you "special"?

Does that make you special or superior 'coz you are "native" speaker? - Or - Are you simply being xenophobic? McKhan

Jesus Christ, I'm just trying to answer your incorrect statement above, There are no "native" speakers of English. I'm not trying to brag or anything. I also don't see why you think your articles are the best and don't need to be improved. --Khoikhoi 05:58, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Copyedit - Indian tribe pages

Hi. I notice you and user Khoikhoi have been having a bit of a revert battle with his copyedit tag on the Tarkani and Salarzai pages. I am agreement with Khoikhoi that the articles did need a copyedit as they really weren't in an understandable form. I have done my best to extract what I think is a readable and accurate version of the text that was there. Please review it and correct any errors, but don't simple revert it to the old version. Kcordina 15:16, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Of course, you will agree with Khoikhoi because he invited you to "copyedit" them though they were quite understandable without your "copyediting." It is quite amusing to read your claim that you have made them "readable" and "accurate" though you know almost nothing about the Pashtun history AND for the fact that the text which I posted there was written by the British Officers almost 100 years ago. McKhan
  • No one invited me to copyedit the pages, in wikipedia if a {{copyedit} tag is added to an article it appears in the Wikipedia_articles_needing_copy_edit category where any interested party can pick up the article to try and help to improve the language. This system generally works very well as it allows people, such as me, who have a reasonable ability with the English language to help improve articles, even if they are not experts in a field. In answer to your other points:-
I'm afraid the articles were not 'quite understandable' - for example, what does (8,000 ; Babukarrah and Charmung valley, Bajaur) mean?
I did not claim to have made them "readable" and "accurate" - if you read my comment what I actually say is I have done my best to extract what I think is a readable and accurate version rapidly followed by Please review it and correct any errors, hoping that an expert in the field would use the clear language I had used to build an accurate article.
You are quite right that I know nothing about the Pashtun history, but I do know about clear English. As explained above - that is the idea of the copyedit. One person supplies the language, another supplies the knowledge. That is why I asked you to review the article. As great as the British Military is, simply because something was written by one of its Officers, doesn't mean it is written in good English in the context of Wikipedia.

Can we please try and move back from the mud-slinging of this debate and work together to achieve a good set of articles. It seems there are at least 4 articles which may need some work. I propose the following as a route forward. Everyone leave the articles alone for the time being, while I shall attempt to find an impartial person, with an interest in articles of this type that can attempt to mediate a solution between yourself and KhoiKhoi. I had hoped I would be able to do that, but you seem to be intent on drawing me into the shouting match. Give me a day or so to find someone. Kcordina 09:48, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

  • In view of the absence of progress in resolving this dispute, I have lodged a request with the Mediation Cabal, who will hopefully be able to help everyone arrive at a sensible conclusion. (see request here. Kcordina 10:45, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Ok first off, your English is not that good. You may think that the article is understandable, but it's not. That's why I added the copyedit tag. Now the article is readable. I never added any information to the articles, so why is it a crime that I don't know anything about them? I just wanted people to be able to understand it. Please stop threatening me. When I said that the Pashtuns live in Afghanistan and Pakistan I meant their homeland, not the diaspora. --Khoikhoi 06:57, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You do have some complex... Don't you?

The text of those pages was written by the British Intelligence officers almost 100 years ago. And what do you know about my English? Do you even know me? McKhan

No, I don't know you, but based on what you just wrote I do know your skills in writing articles in English. I suggest you edit the Pushtu Wikipedia instead. --Khoikhoi 07:02, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I just couldn't care less about your immature judgements. You should stay away from those page which you know nothing about otherwise I will make sure that you get blocked - yet again. McKhan
Threatening others with blocks when you really can't do anything except complain is incivility and general harassment. NSLE (T+C) 07:09, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Are you the buddy of Khoikhoi? McKhan
No, I'm an admin. NSLE (T+C) 07:16, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Good for you. I can also be an admin. But I simply don't have time to waste with amateurs. McKhan
You have been blocked 3 hours for general incivlity. It's short, I hope you learn some manners. NSLE (T+C) 07:26, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Who cares? I don't. McKhan
Greetings, McKhan. There are many hunderds of admins. And in the interests of constructiveness, I would press on NSLE to also tone it down a notch for the time being. Our encyclopedia needs people like you to contribute, but we also have a style guide to keep in mind. Also, please review ownership of articles. I think the problem is that in some of the articles, the prose and the narrative are not entirely clear, in that the reader might find it difficult to tell what each individual component refers to (see my questions regarding Wur on Khoikhoi's talk page). Thank you. Regards, El_C 07:30, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I've unblocked you early, I hope you cooled down a little. Try to be less incivil, if possible. We're all here to help. As El_C pointed out, he's asked you a few questions here, perhaps you could answer them to clear this up. NSLE (T+C) 08:10, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Mediation

Recently, user Kcordina requested the Mediation Cabal to mediate the dispute concerning the Pashtun tribes articles. After reviewing the articles, I am forced to conclude that you are in violation of Wikipedia:Ownership of articles. Please review the policy and feel free to ask me anything if you have questions. Thank you. Olorin28 00:38, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Erm, we got it under control here right now, let's try not to overwhelm McKhan with notices, shall we? Thank in advance. Regards, El_C 00:44, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blocked

I have blocked you for 24 hours as a result of your recent behaviour on Qibla. You have undoubtedly violated the WP:3RR as well as engaging in an edit pattern that clearly disrupts the normal functioning of editing an article. -Splashtalk 19:38, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Kakazaifoeipage555.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:Kakazaifoeipage555.gif. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Wikipedia:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thank you. Shyam (T/C) 14:19, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request for investigation (65.92.130.151, Cronodevir, and Muslim_Sunni)

Hello McKhan. Note that your request for investigation was archived because it is a user or content dispute. Such disputes are best resolved through the dispute resolution process; please list the user again if they blatantly ignore that process. Thanks. // Pathoschild (admin / talk) 20:20, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism (March 2006)

Please do not delete sections of text or valid links from Wikipedia articles. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. --Jibran1 06:32, 30 March 2006

I sincerely apologise for the warning that I have given you. I was looking through the history of the article and had noticed that you had erased links from the 'External links' section, multiple times, after they had been put back. Upon further investigation of Wikipedia:Vandalism & Wikipedia:External_links#Links_to_normally_avoid and a readthrough of the dialogue between you and Art LaPella, I realised that I might have been a bit hasty in putting up the warning on your page. My mistake. At this point, I just want to add that I put that warning up on your page, in good faith and in the interest of the article. I am not taking sides, and I can assure you that there was no "nepotism" or "nationalism" going on. I would put up a warning on Muslim Sunni too, if your accusations towards him are true, however, I could not find his name listed as the webmaster at the Sunna.info website. Furthermore, Sunna.info seems to be an informative websites as I did find some interesting articles on it.
Please do continue to contribute to Wikipedia. I'm sure your inputs and efforts are appreciated. Once again, my sincere apologies to you. --Jibran1 23:10, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blocked for standing up for WikiPedia-NPOV guidelines and helping to maintain the integrity of WikiPedia Islam-related pages that they not be used for link-farming, spamm or one's agenda purposes?

I am very disappointed to find out that I have been blocked for standing-up for WikiPedia-NPOV guidelines.

Unfotunately, Adminsitrator Commander_Keane played right into the hands of Al-Ahbash / Habashies' gang, which includes but not limited to:

.etc

(Anybody with a little bit of commonsense and by paying attention to the "date-stamps", "contributions", "target-pages", "style", "verbage", "semantics" .etc can figure the TRUTH out that there is an ON-GOING and Constant / Complex Vandalism + Delibrate Three revert rule Manipulation. - and delivered their wish by blocking me for 24 hours.

Above users, specially Cronodevir (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log) and Muslim_sunni (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log), are using WikiPedia Islam-related pages to link-farm, spamm and for marketing purposes to promote their own sect and pursue their agenda.

I am NOT guilty of violating or manipulating the Three revert rule NOR I am guilty of link-farming, spamming or using WikiPedia Islam-ralted pages to market or promote my group. All I have been trying to do is to maintain the integrity of WikiPedia NPOV-guidelines and reverting back to Tearlach's version.

There are two parties:

  • McKhan, a mainstream Sunni whose family has been Sunni for centuries
  • Al-Ahbash / Habashies / AICP, a religious sect / cult, which denies the TOTALITY of the Quran and have SUBSTANTIAL and FUNDMENTAL differences with mainstream Sunnis and yet classifies itself as a Sunni and thereby hides itself behind the mainstream Sunnis like myself, to seek legitimacy and recruitment (You are more than welcome to read Internet in a Sectarian Islamic Context, a research report by an INDEPENDENT / ACADEMIC outlet)

Tearlach is NOT a mainstream Sunni NOR he belongs to Al-Ahbash / Habashies group. He got involved and wrote a WikiPedia-NPOV compliant version.

I totally appreciate the fact and have repeatedly acknowledged that if two parties don't see each other eye-to-eye then only a NEUTRAL / INDEPENDENT party can do the job.

However, Al-Ahbash / Habashies / AICP don't appreicate that nor the fact that if I will write that page according to my wishes, that page will NOT be somewhat NEUTRAL like the way Tearlach has written.

Here is

and - here is

It is quite obvious that Tearlach's version of 'Al-Ahbash' page is more WikiPedia NPOV-compliant.

Furthermore, Tearlach has already addressed all the objections raised by the Al-Ahbash / Habashies on his version as per following:

Al-Ahbash / Habashies / AICP's Objections: "an interpretation of Islam combining elements of Sunni and Shi'a theology with Sufism"[10] ? + "anti-Salafi, and with Sufi and other beliefs seen as heretical"[11] ?

NPOV / Tearlach's Response: It was an attempt to summarise and merge the descriptions at the three cited sources: their own promotional website; a critical description; and what appears to be a fairly balanced and properly-sourced paper in an academic journal. It incorporated other academic sources such as Internet in a Sectarian Islamic Context. Tearlach 15:50, 26 October 2005 (UTC) + Read NPOV. I chose those links because they represent a spread of views: one well-referenced and (as far as I can tell neutral) academic article; one from the official AICP site, which is completely uncritical of Al-Ahbash; and one fairly representative of what its critics say about it. Tearlach 02:15, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Morever, fairly and impartially speaking, Tearlach has given AICP / Al-Ahbash / Habashies quite favorable but blanced POV on WikiPedia:

  • a). by not calling them a CULT but merely a "sect"
  • b). by providing an external link to Al-Ahbash / Habashies' arch web-site and to another contrary link
  • c). by quoting their BOGUS and OXYMORONIC claim that AICP / Al-Ahbash / Habashies advocates pluralism, and opposition to political activism and violence (There is ample material available over the internet to refute both claims)

and

  • d). by quoting AICP / Al-Ahbash / Habashies' FRADULENT slogan from their own web-site, "the resounding voice of moderation" (despite the fact that the very same "the voice of moderation" castigates every that individual / web-site / organization / outlet - which - expose the Al-Ahbash / AICP / Habashies' agenda and beliefs as either "Wahabi", "Kaafir", "non-Muslim", "Islamist" or part of a "smear compaign" .etc)

Consequently, I, as a party, support Tearlach's version of 'Al-Ahbash' page, WikiPedia NPOV-compliant version - over - Al-Ahbash / Habashies' version of 'Al-Ahbash' which doesn't offer any balance nor it offers what the ciritics say about Al-Ahbash / Habashies.

I have repeatedly pointed-out that I am a mainstream Sunni and my family is Sunni for centuries. As I have reiterated before that I am NOT guilty of inserting / promoting HIDDEN links, rewriting a WikiPedia NPOV-compliant version to a more Habashanized version on WikiPedia AND other projects' Islam-related pages (I invite everybody to visit McKhan (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log)'s contributions to see IF I EVER did that on WikiPedia) to seek legitimacy and recruitment for my group but Al-Ahbash / Habashies are.

I have also warned many times that the agents / sympathizers of Al-Ahbash / Habashies / AICP will continue:

  • to make attempts to Habashanize this page and other WikiPedia / similar projects' Islam-related pages by twisting WikiPedia and others' guidelines to the maximum extent and by incorporating hidden links to wage a blatant and hegemonic smear campaign using "Islamic" sounded web-sites
  • to castigate / shun / discard / ignore / discredit / "refute" any criticism / evidence by any individual / web-site / organization / outlet - which exposes the Al-Ahbash / AICP / Habashies' agenda and beliefs - as either "Wahabi", "Kaafir", "non-Muslim", "Islamist" or part of a "smear / defemation compaign"
  • to use "politically correct" language / jargon / ebonics / verbage / semantics to their benefit and pursue their agenda and beliefs against the other party
  • to purse their "divide and conquer" strategy by trying to DIMINISH / LESSEN and ultimately REMOVE the FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE (S), demonstrated / presented / preached by themselves on this very page and by practicing their hedious, vicious, contemptuous and dangerous tactics elsewhere on the web and in their material and Musallahs, between mainstream Sunnis and Al-Ahbash / Habashies / AICP to seek legitimacy, recruitment and hegemonic superiority of their beliefs and agenda,

and

  • to ignore / discredit all the INDEPENDENT, NEUTRAL and ACADEMIC sources and material which doesn't follow the tag-line of Al-Ahbash / Habashies / AICP.

Al-Ahbash / Habashies agents are ganging-up on WikiPedia Islam-related pages to SANITIZE themselves to pursue their agenda of seeking legitimacy and recruitment under the guise of mainstream Sunni Muslims.

Indeed, FIRST - Al-Ahbash / Habashies / AICP's agents tried to castigate me as a "Wahabi", "non-Muslim" .etc and NOW they are trying to FRAME me and trying to manufacture a CHAOS (by creating HOSTILE environment, by manipulating 3 Rvv rule, by calling me a "Wahabi" and therefore trying to portray me as a "Terrorist" .etc) to get me banned from the WikiPedia that they could continue their on-slaught on WikiPedia Islam-realted pages with free-hand to seek legitimacy and recruitment under the guise of mainstream Sunni Muslims.

I invite all the fair-minded and sincere WikiPedia Admistrators to compare / investigate

with

.etc

by using a little bit of common-sense and by paying keen attention to "date-stamps", "contributions", "target-pages", "style", "verbage", "semantics" .etc to figure the TRUTH out that there is an ON-GOING and Constant / Complex Vandalism, link-farming, marketing, Delibrate Three revert rule Manipulation .etc

I hope WikiPedia administrators will be able to figure that conspiracy out and rather being a complicit or playing right into the hands of Al-Ahbash / Habashies, will co-operate to maintain the integrity of WikiPedia-NPOV guidelines and rest of vulnerable WikiPedia Islam-related pages which are on the stake.

McKhan

[edit] Blocked for violation of 3RR at Al-Ahbash

Firstly, let me begin by saying that I apologise for this delayed notice of your block. Seconds after I applied the block to your account my internet connection dropped out, then I fell asleep.

You have been blocked for 24 hours for violation of the Three revert rule (3RR). It's never acceptable to revert an article more than 3 times in 24 hours over a content dispute - whatever your feelings about the content issue are. The article was Al-Ahbash. In the future, please use discussion rather than reverting to change articles.--Commander Keane 04:44, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Doctrines compared between Al-Ahbash and to mainstream sunni Muslims

Article of faith Mainstream Islamic belief Al-Ahbash belief
Tawheed (Monotheism) The belief of the Muslims, as indicated by the verses of the Qur’aan, the ahaadeeth of the Prophet (SAW), sound human nature and clear common sense is that Allaah is above His creation, over His Throne, and nothing at all of His creatures’ affairs is hidden from Him. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “and then He rose over (Istawaa) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty)”. [al-A’raaf 7:54] – this phrase appears seven times in the Qura’aan. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it (i.e. the goodly words are not accepted by Allaah unless and until they are followed by good deeds)” [Faatir 35:10] “And He is the Most High, the Most Great” [al-Baqarah 2:255] “Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High” [al-A’laa 87:1] “And to Allaah prostrate all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, of the moving (living) creatures and the angels, and they are not proud [i.e. they worship their Lord (Allaah) with humility]. They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded” [al-Nahl 16:49-50] Ibn Taymiyah attacked Ibn e Arabi, the famous Sufi that claimed for the first time that Allah exists everywhere and he claimed that Allah and his creations are the same thing. That is clearly in contradiction to Quran and Sunnah and to the understanding of the Companions (Qur'an 67:16). Ibn Taymiyah declared him a Kafir (non-Muslim) because he attributed to Allah something that we were never told, and that is Kufr by the agreement of the Sunni Muslims [6] Muslims can never believe or claim Allah has created the universe and sent the Messengers to humans for no purpose or wisdom and never entertain such heretical believes and believe that whoever attributes any of Allah's actions to the Divine Wisdom is a mushrik.[8] Al Shafi or any sunni school never came up with the idea that - Is Allah able on him self or not?.Nor can they entertain such idea. They deny that Allaah is above His creation.[5] Ibn e Arabi, the famous Sufi claimed for the first time that Allah exists everywhere and he claimed that Allah and his creations are the same thing.Here ahbashi’s follow ibn e Arabi. They claim that Allah has created the universe and sent the Messengers to humans for no purpose or wisdom. [7] Al-Habashi also came up with some strange things, he said Allah is has ability on most of things - look Izhar Al-Iqedah Al-Sunnyah P. 59 -. Also, he asked the people this question, Is Allah able on him self or not?. He is Jabri, he said Allah help the Kuffars on their Kufer, if Allah did not help them they will not be Kuffar (look Al-Nahj Al-Saleem P. 67).
The Attributes to Allah Al-Shafi as all Ahlu-sunnah beliefs Allah's attributes as what Allah (S.W.T) mentions them in His book and in the Sunnah of His Messengers without any meaning's changing, exchanging, or misconstruction. This is the consensus of the Muslims, from the Sahaabah and Taabi’een to those who follow their path until the present day that it is obligatory to believe in what is stated in the texts about the Names and attributes of Allaah, without distorting the meanings, denying any of His attributes, discussing the hows and whys or likening any of Allaah’s attributes to human attributes. They (the Muslims) believe that there is none like unto Allaah and He is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing; they do not deny any of the attributes with which He has described himself. They do not change the words from their (right) places or belie or deny (or utter impious speech against) His Names or signs. They do not discuss the nature of His attributes, or liken His attributes to the attributes of His creation, because there is nothing that can be compared to Him, and He has no equal or rival. Imaam al-Shaafa'i (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “I believe in Allaah and in what has come from Allaah as Allaah meant it. I believe in the Messenger of Allaah and in what has come from the Messenger of Allaah as the Messenger of Allaah meant it.” Imaam Ahmad (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “We believe in it; we do not reject anything that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, and we do not describe Allaah with more than He has described Himself.”[3] The meaning of Istawa every Muslim knows the meaning by the Fitrah, it means He (S.W.T) rose over, that set no more details such as how, because Allah (S.W.T) tells us in the Quran about his attributes something fit with human's mind, we believe them as is, according Imam Malik, when someone ask him about Al-Istiwa he - may Allah have mercy on him- Al-Istiwa's meaning is known, how is unknown, believe it is obligation, and to ask about is Bed'ah, then he asked this man to go because he is Mubtad'a. [4] They think that it is obligatory to interpret the texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah which speak of the attributes of Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted (i.e., to understand them differently from the apparent meaning.[1] They change the meaning of Allah's attributes based on the desire. Look what Al-Habashi and his followers said about ' Al-Istiwa' " Al-rahman ala al'arsh istawa" translation " The most Beneficent (Allah) Istawa (rose over) the mighty Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty) -Taha verse 5- , what they - Ahbash- said about the meaning of this word 'Istawa' they said it means take possession of the Throne, that means there was a god before Allah , then Allah possessed the throne from that first god, which no Muslim will believe or accept that , Ta-a'la-Allah Oluwan Kabera[2].
Totality of the Quran “They want to change Allaah’s Words. Say: ‘You shall not follow us; thus Allaah has said beforehand.’” [al-Fath 48:15] this ayat clearly states that Quran is the word of Allah. Any sunni school of thought never claimed that Quran is not the word of Allah but of Gabriel(Alih Asslam). Imaam al-Shaafa'i (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “I believe in Allaah and in what has come from Allaah as Allaah meant it. I believe in the Messenger of Allaah and in what has come from the Messenger of Allaah as the Messenger of Allaah meant it.” Imaam Ahmad (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “We believe in it; we do not reject anything that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, and we do not describe Allaah with more than He has described Himself.”[9] Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal spent several years in the jails of Bani al-Abbas because of his stand against the deviant mutazillah when they claimed that the text of Quran was uttered by Gabriel not by Allah [10] Al-Habashi said that, The Quran's word was established by Gabriel (Alih Asslam), and Quran is not Allah's speech -look Izhar Al-Iqedah Al-Sunnyah P. 59-. Of course this idea is not new idea he came up with it, he just follows Al-Thalal's Imams. This idea is not something simple we can forget it. Just think about that, if we said Al-Quran is not Allah's speech that means it somebody's else speech, that means it could have some mistake. If we look at the history, where this idea come from, and why they came up with this idea, we will notice that, they want to reject the Quran, but they could not find any way to prove that, It is deficient or incomplete, then they came up with this idea. When the Muslims believe that, it is not Allah's speech then it could be incomplete or it is not perfect. Then we can change some of it while it is not perfect.
Seeking help from the Dead Quran regarding worshipping graves, dead people and any thing besides Allah explicitly says “And they worship besides Allaah things that harm them not, nor profit them, and they say: 'These are our intercessors with Allaah'" [Yoonus 10:18] “Verily, We have sent down the Book to you (O Muhammad) in truth. So worship Allaah (Alone) by doing religious deeds sincerely for Allaah’s sake only. Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allaah only. And those who take Auliyaa’ (protectors, helpers, lords, gods) besides Him (say): ‘We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allaah.’ Verily, Allaah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allaah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever” [al-Zumar 39:2-3] “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone” [al-Anfaal 8:39]. Al-Shafi or even any Sunni school of thought does not claim or believe in the things which are explicitly against Quran. He, Al-Habashi, encourage people to go to the graves and appeal for aid from dead, also he allows to seek the protection from other than Allah (look Al-Daleel Al-Qaweem P.173, Bwghyat Al-Talib P.8, Sareeh Al-Bayan P.57-62). Also, he said Al-Awleya come from their graves to do people's needs, then they go back to their graves ! (look Khalid Kanan's tape b70). Also, he ask people to have Tabaruk by stone (look Sareh Al-Byan P. 58, Ithhar Al-Aqedah Al-Sunnyah P.244).
Iman / Deen (Practicing one's Faith with Intentions, Deeds and Actions) Quran itself is very explicit on this matter. So all Sunni schools and even Shia believe in that iman is not only saying but believing and practicing in true Spirit of Quran and sunnah. Otherwise a person cant be true momin. In the words of Imaam al-Shaafa'i (may Allaah have mercy on him): “Among the consensus of the Sahaabah and the Taabi’een and those who came after them, and those whom we have met, is that they say: faith is words, actions and intentions; one of these three will not be complete without the others.” Thus iman is not only saying but believing n practicing in true Spirit of Quran and sunnah. Otherwise a person cant be true momin. It is known that the belief of the Muslims, which was that followed by the Sahaabah, the Taabi’een and those who follow their path until the present day, is that faith (eemaan) is the matter of words spoken by the tongue, beliefs held in the heart and actions done by the body. Belief must be accompanied by submission to the laws of Islam, otherwise that so-called faith is not valid.[12] He is Murje, Concerning creed, they follow the condemned school of Irja'.[11] He said Iman is saying only without deeds, i.e. , Iman is belief only , when you believe it is enough for you to enter Al-Jannah you do have to do any practice, he make Abu Baker and Abu Jahel is same, because both believe Allah. Anyone believe Allah is Mu'min either he pray or not, he does Islam's Pillars or not. (look Al-Daleel Al-Qaweem P.7, Beghyat Al-Taleb P.51).
Superiority of Divine Law over Man-made Law No Sunni school of thought can ever claim that human law is equal to or superior to laws laid by Quran and Sunnah. He does not care about the Judgment by Islam or other which is against Islam, and he describe the people who judge by human's law (against Islam) and do not like to judge by Islam, he describe them as Muslim and Mu'min, also he allows helping them (look tape No. 318/1 side A). Also, he said any one who said at least one time in his life La Elah Ela Allah (No God but Allah) he is Muslim and Mu'min even if he does not judge the Allah's Share'ah in his life, does not do any of Allah's commands, and does not leave Allah's prohibited. (look Al-Daleel Al-Qaweem P.9-10, Beghyat Al-Taleb P. 51). He- Al-Habashi- said that Syed Qutub is Kafer, because he prohibit Judges to judge between people using the human's law (against Islam).
Respecting the Prophet's Companions “And those who came after them say: Our Lord! Forgive us and our brethren who have preceded us in Faith, and put not in our hearts any hatred against those who have believed. Our Lord! You are indeed full of kindness, Most Merciful.” [al-Hashr 59:10] This is the sound belief concerning the Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This is the belief of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah throughout the centuries. Imaam Abu Ja’faar al-Tahhaawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, explaining the beliefs of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah: “We love the companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but we do not go to extremes in our love for any of them, and we do not disown any of them. We hate those who hate them, and we do not say anything but good about them (the companions). Love for them is true religion, faith and goodness; hatred for them is kufr, hypocrisy and transgression.”[14] It is confirmed that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Do not abuse my Companions for if any one of you spent gold equal to Mountain Uhud (in Allah's Cause) it would not be equal to a mudd or even a half mudd spent by one of them."? Allah Almighty says: “And those who came (into the faith) after them say: Our Lord Forgive us and our brethren who were before us in the faith, and place not in our hearts any rancor toward those who believe. Our Lord! Thou art Full of Pity, Mercifl.” (Al-Hashr: 10) [15] Although claiming to be the follower of al shafi school of thought he tries to get Shi'ah's agree by talking a lot about the fightings(Fitans) which happened between companions, and he insult Mua'wyah (R.A.A) a lot and he - Al-Habashi - made him -Mua'wyah - of Fire's people, also he mention a lot of Shia'h's stories about Mua'wyah (R.A.A). They abuse the Prophet’s Companions (may Allah be pleased with them all) particularly Mu`awiyah, `A'ishah, Khalid ibn al-Walid. They declared that Mu`awayh (may Allah be pleased with him) was not a true believer. In such case, they are similar to the Rafidah who also insult the Prophet’s Companions. [Muslims must abstain from discussing the relationship between the Prophet’s Companions and their disagreements. They must also recognize their role in promoting Islam and their being privileged with the Companionship of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).[13]
Takfeer (Excommunication of the Followers of Islam) Al-Shafi and other founders of the rest of three sunni schools never insulted each other. They respected the difference of opinion among themselves. The Prophet (s) said "whoever calls a Muslim a kaafir, he is a kaafir." This is borne out in the following three hadiths. The Prophet (s) said, as narrated in Bukhari and Muslim by Ibn Mas'ud, "to curse a Muslim is corruption and to fight him is apostasy." He said in another hadith related by Abdullah ibn 'Umar in Tabarani, that the Prophet (s) said, "leave alone the people who say there is no deity except Allah, don't call them unbelievers if they did something that in your eyes is a sin, for whoever says that they are unbelievers, he is the one nearer to unbelief." Anas ibn Malik related from the Prophet (s) "the origin of faith is threefold: to leave alone those who say there is no deity but God alone, not to call him an unbeliever because of a sin, and not to bring him out of Islam. [Abu Dawud.] "The Prophet (s) said, "you must follow the majority of Muslims." The majority of Muslims are following these three hadiths and avoid accusing anyone of kufr and unbelief, except "Abdullah Habashi" and his followers who proved with their believes that they are non muslims. [17] He not only insult the scholars beginning with the companions, especially Mua'wyah (R.A.A)( look Ethhar Al-Aqeedah AlSunnyah P. 182). look to some of his tape like (tape No. 13/A/94) to see what he said about Shihk Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah(follower of hanbal school of thought,), also, look at (Al-Magalat Al-Sunnyah P. 15, 24, 26, 57, 62, 75). Look what he said about Imam Al-Thahabi, he said he is wicked, Imam Muhammad bin AbdulWahhab (follower of hanbal school of thought,)murder and Kafer (look at their Manar Al-Huda Magazine Issue 3 P.34). Shikh Syed Sabiq is Majosi Kafir (tape No. 1/A/181). Syed Qutub is one of Al-Khawarij's heads, he is Kafir, and he is journal's communist (look Al-Nahj Al-Sawi fi Al-Rad ala Syed Qutub Wa Tabi'eh Fiysal Muwlawi P. 3) in this way they wanted to turn people away from the scholars who have deep knowledge, and put people off from reading their books or referring to the reports transmitted from them, include: slandering them, belittling them and undermining them, and even denouncing them as kaafirs.[16] Anyone is considered an unbeliever unless they take initiation with their shaykh. Everyone else is considered kaafir. Al-Habashi divides the Islamic resources to facts, Share'ah, inner (Baten), outer (thaher), he pretends that, he gets the knowledge from Allah by some kind of knowledge its name (Al-Elm Al-Ladoni), also, he pretends that, he meets Al-Khuder and some other Shykhs in their graves, and he talks the promise from them!. Also, he believes that, they (the people who usually meets them) have ability and control on the universe according to their levels, some of them hold the earth, others knows the unseen!. [22]
Presumptious Superiority of Al-Ahbash' Religious Decress over Quran and Sunnah Imam Shafi never claim that his Fatwas are above Quran and Sunnah. Instead all Sunni imams including Al Shafi claimed that their Fatwas should be considered null and void if they contradicts Quran and Sunnah. “And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers’ way, We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell — what an evil destination!” [al-Nisaa’ 4:115] He -Al-Habashi calls for the revival of the approaches of the advocates of the science of Kalam (theology), Sufis, and the Batiniyyah (hidden religion). The Batiniyyah (Ismaili shites)believe that Quranic texts have a hidden mending, and that there is a knowledge of the unseen, that only the Ismaili scholars can know about. That is known as Batiniyah[18]
Interest According to Quran, Interest is not allowed in any condition. One of the most flagrant violations of this sect is their issuing of wrong fatwas that contradict the Qur'an and the Sunnah. For instance, He, Al-Habashi, allows Al-Riba (the interest) and they consider it permissible to deal in Riba (interest) with non-Muslims, and to join lottery games. (Al-Ahbash: Evolution and Beliefs)
Uncleanness According to Quran, Salat or prayer is not allowed in the state of uncleanness. He allows to pray with dirty - Najasah - (look Beghyat Al-Taleb P. 99-100).
Gambling According to Quran, gambling is not allowed in any condition. He allows playing gambling with Kuffar, and allows stealing your neighbors if they are non Muslim. (look Sareeh Al-Bayan P. 133) [18] Al-Habashi considers gambling with non-believers permissible in order to take away their money as long as this does not lead to sedition. They consider robbing the harvest and the cattle of non-believers and permissible. [20]
Intermingling of Men and Women According to Quran, intermigling of men and women is not allowed. One of their most obvious violations to the principles of Islam is their declaration that it is permissible to look lustfully at women, on television or elsewhere, and also that intermingling between men and women without any restrictions is permissible. He said the first sighting on the foreign woman is allowed even if it takes too long time (look Beghyat Al-Taleb P.224, 287)[21]
Un-Islamic Religious Decrees (Fatwas) According to mainstream Sunni scholars, Al-Ahbash continue to follow unislamic Fatwas. FOR EXAMPLE: They marry only within their group. They trade, buying and selling only among themselves.[23] They gave a fatwa that a man can sleep with any woman that is not a member of their group, because she will be considered jaariya, as they consider themselves at war with those who do not follow them. They are even permitted to use force for this purpose, thereby condoning rape. [24] They destroyed families by demanding that wives leave husbands and husbands leave wives, based on their claim that if one spouse took initiation with the so-called "Habashi," he or she must leave the other, unless the other spouse also take initiation. By this means, they have broken up thousands of families, in Lebanon, Europe, in America where they have some small groups. [25] They have given a fatwa to the effect that wives forcibly separated from their husbands, remarry, though they are still considered married by sharia; moreover they force them to remarry one of the members of their group.[26] They gave a fatwa that as long as the woman is covering her head, she can go swimming in a one-piece bathing suit or bikini, even in front of strange men. Their special beaches are infamous in Lebanon[27]. They say that women can go in front of any man wearing all types of cosmetics, fragrances, eyelashes, rouge and makeup, and wearing tight trousers and alluring clothes, as long as she is covering her head. they say that for a man to look at any part of a woman who is not permissible for him is not haraam[28] Now they are finally studying the possiblity of a fatwa to allow mut'ah to take place.[29] They have big maestro group (music group) such as James Last, they singing and dancing with women, and they use it to pray to Allah! because this is ISLAMIC MUSIC. [30] They permitted mufakhadha, which means a man may sleep and commit any sexual act with other than his wife, as long as no penetration occurs.[31] Al-Habashi pretends that, he has the prophet's finger ring, and he shows it to the people, and they jump to kiss it. [32] They -Ahbash- sing and dance in their parties with such undress women, in spite of that, they said Allah gives them Karamat [33] They enforce Masajids` Imam in Lebanon to let them -Ahbash- to give lessons in the Masjid (look Shira magazine issue No. 574 Fighting on Masajids in Lebanon). Al-Habashi made a Fitnah in US and Canada and Japan by ordering his follower to change their Qiblah (the direction of prayer), then they changed their Qiblah against all Muslims in US and Canada by 90 degree. Also, in Lebanon, they have different Qiblah from other Muslims there, they changed it to the North. And they did not pray with Muslims in Muslims' Masajids. [34] He and his followers use magic (Al-Sher), and they used to give their followers to let them follow them without any objection, they use some tablets for that purpose they called it promise's tablets (Huboob Al-Ahb). Also, they have some magic paper they used for magic purpose.[35] These are some examples of their weird fatwas that clearly contradict Shari`ah and consider all grave sins as permissible practices and they have permitted their followers to do which is contrary to Islam.

[edit] Al-Ahbash

I'm not part of the Al-Ahbash myself, but do you have a source that states they are considered kuffar by most Muslims? BhaiSaab talk 17:28, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


Please, Read ABOVE and:

No matter how Al-Ahbash / Habashies deny, the fact remain the same: The most FUNDAMENTAL / CRUCIAL difference IS that Al-Ahbash / Habashies DENY the TOTALITY of the Quran.[1],[2], [3]

McKhan

What do you think about Shi'a? BhaiSaab talk 17:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Mainstream Muslims Vs. Al-Ahbash has been list for deletion. BhaiSaab talk 18:12, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I responded to your statement on Talk:Islam. BhaiSaab talk 23:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Responded. BhaiSaab talk 23:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Responded again. BhaiSaab talk 00:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

You should be aware that I have no agenda against you. You shouldn't take my listing of your article for deletion personally. BhaiSaab talk 03:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Please don't add copyrighted text to Wikipedia

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We appreciate your creation of the article, Mainstream Muslims Vs. Al-Ahbash, but we cannot accept copyrighted text borrowed from other web sites or printed material. Please see Wikipedia:Copyright problems for more information on this topic, or generally, Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines. Please do not remove the copyright violation notice placed in the article or repost the suspected infringing text. However, if you would like to rewrite the article in your own words, follow the link in the posted notice to create a temporary subpage. If your new article is appropriate, and not a further copyright violation, the reviewing administrator will move that new article into place once the copyright status of the original has been resolved. Happy editing! BhaiSaab talk 20:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Please read wikipedia's help section on minor edits. BhaiSaab talk 22:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Why do you feel the need to bring back old discussions? The topic was locked for over two months and I had it unlocked. Its better to start afresh. Archiving is a regular process. BhaiSaab talk 00:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It is still under progress. And you better stop pushing your Shia agenda on Wikipedia Islam-related page and stop using Sock-puppets. Your archving is not written on the stone. Contexual Archiving is more crucial. McKhan

Just because I forgot to sign in doesn't mean I'm using sock-puppets. There is no Shi'a agenda; why, do you consider them kuffar too? This is probably the third or fourth agenda you've accused me of. BhaiSaab talk 00:22, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Aminz, a Shia, was helping on the Al-Ahbash page. I will recommend that you should study the subject first and then try to work on this page. McKhan
I don't care about who's a Shi'a and who isn't. Furthermore, you have been reported for violation of 3rr. BhaiSaab talk 00:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3RR

 You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.

Tom Harrison Talk 01:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia is a paradise and haven for Pedophiles, Perverts, Amateurs, Pseudo-Scholars, Agenda-pushers, Wanna-be-Academics, Egoistics, Control-freaks, Teen-agers and Bloggers .etc.

Wikipedia is a paradise and haven for Pedophiles, Perverts, Amateurs, Pseudo-Scholars, Agenda-pushers, Wanna-be-Academics, Egoistics, Control-freaks, Teen-agers and Bloggers .etc. Its "anybody-can-edit" approach tantamounts to the prositution of facts, subjects and the realities on the ground. Wikipedia Guidelines are just the tools to facilitate that prositution. Consequently, Neutral Point of View (NPOV) is a child which was born dead from the day it was conceived by its founder. And this child will remain dead, no matter how much money, resources and exposure is poured by the companies like Google, Yahoo .etc on its coffin. McKhan

[edit] You're welcome

I am happy that you liked it. BTW, did you finally get to create that table? (I think we decided to put it in another format though) --Aminz 07:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Whatever Imfatima2001 gathered and wrote, I simply formatted and posted it as a new page, Mainstream Muslims Vs. Al-Ahbash, along-with her table. Please, feel welcome to see the current status of that page here. I wish I had more time to re-write that table, at least. McKhan
First, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Muhammad#Dispute_regarding_Khyber_War There is a nice table there.
Secondly, it was good if you could summerize everything in a sentence or two. The table was hard to read. You can give references to some websites (WP:RS ones) for further reading. The table will be then added to the "Crticitism of Ahbashi" section in the article. I am also still waiting for the other party to make their own "Responses section".
Take care, --Aminz 07:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Thank you so much for all the help and for the example. I will check it out. Take care and Good night. :) McKhan
I didn't do anything. Good night, --Aminz 08:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

What exactly is the importance of the following text?

"[1]. Al-Ahbash / Habashies DENY the TOTALITY of the Quran [2]. Wikipedia:personal attacks by mckhan : Racial ephithets , Another [3]. Wikipedia must NOT allow these personal and slandrous attacks on its contributors + McKhan is a mainstream Sunni Muslim and NOT a Wahabi + Only MAINSTREAM, INDEPENDENT, ACADEMIC and / or RELIGIOUSLY AUTHOROTATIVE sources have been quoted [4]. Wikipedia:personal attacks by mckhan : Racial ephithets [5]. Wikipedia NEUTRAL POINT OF VIEW (NPOV) Guidelines must be implented, respected and adhered to.... Tearlach's version continues to be Wikipedia NPOV-compliant... [6]. mckhan goal on Wikipedia is Defamation [7]. Tearlach's WikiPedia NPOV-compliant version vs. Al-Ahbash / Habashies' Marketing-flyer Version = Tearlach's version continue to meet the WikiPedia Guidelines [8]. Scandal of The Wahhabi mckhan (Wahhabism are responsable of the 9/11 world trade center attack ) [9]. Al-Ahbash are NOT on Wikipedia to help but to promote themselves + Wikipedia must NOT allow these personal and slandrous attacks on its contributors + McKhan is a mainstream Sunni Muslim and NOT a Wahabi + Only MAINSTREAM, INDEPENDENT, ACADEMIC and / or RELIGIOUSLY AUTHOROTATIVE sources have been quoted + Tearlach's WikiPedia NPOV-compliant version vs. Al-Ahbash / Habashies' Marketing-flyer Version = Tearlach's version continue to meet the WikiPedia Guidelines [10]. Stop hiding behind your finger [11]. Table [12]. This article [13]. Table? [14]. Got it [15]. The table [16]. Al-Ahbash [17]. See also [18]. alahbash AND mulims [19]. New ChangesWho teaches The Tawheed that speaks of substance and unessentials? [20]. Tawheed: According to Al-Habashi [21]. Ahbash المشاريعيون، الأحباش، جماعة من أهل السنّةa [22]. Ahbash [23]. Ahbash, Sufi response against wahabies نهجنا a [24]. Tawheed: According to Al-Habashi [25]. This article remain under progress"

BhaiSaab talk 02:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

It is called CONTEXUAL ARCHIVING. McKhan
The only context it establishes is that the you claim Al-Ahbash deny the totality of the Qur'an, which I'm not so sure is true, and that you and other editors previously made personal attacks against each other. Not a pretty context. BhaiSaab talk 02:57, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I'll have to read more about the Al-Ahbash before I can say what they believe. Islam's talk page is currently 106KB. Dhimmi is not an article I regularly edit, but its talk page is about 160KB. I don't subscribe to the views of any of the people you mentioned, but it's not as if their articles are being copied and pasted onto Wikipedia, so I don't see how that's relevant. BhaiSaab talk 03:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually I read most of it. That doesn't mean I believe it though. BhaiSaab talk 03:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Q: "What do you think what Al-Ahbash believe in about the TOTALITY of the Quran and Tawheed?" McKhan
  • A: "I'll have to read more about the Al-Ahbash before I can say what they believe." BhaiSaab talk 03:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
McKhan
Right, I said "read more." That doesn't indicate that I haven't read about them at all. BhaiSaab talk 03:39, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
It doesn't mean that you have achieved the knwolege-level of a religious scholar and therefore you should castigate expert opinions from mainstream scholars like Dr. Ahmad Sakr and Dr. Muzzamil Siddiqi and many more as "Polemics", "Original Research", "Non-Verifiable" .etc McKhan
Well of course I'm not a religious scholar. I haven't categorized those scholars opinions, but I have described a few of your edits as such. BhaiSaab talk 03:57, 24 June 2006 (UTC)


I don't insist on my edits when I see other's peoples edits are reasonable. The only feeling that piece of text leaves is that of animosity. Why don't you propose what you would like to do with the article on the talk page so we can move forward? Also, I think you're quite able to help me improve the Islam article. If you can, please do that. BhaiSaab talk 03:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it has got to do more with the control than the edits by themselves. What is posted up there on Talk:Al-Ahbash page is a compromise. I know Al-Ahbash / Habashies very well and I have done my home-work on them for years. I know plenty of them here where I live. It has nothing to do with animosity but pure logic and their practice of hiding behind mainstream Sunnis to seek legitimacy and recruitment. So, I am quite comfortable with the subject of Al-Ahbash / Habashies. As far as other pages of Wikipedias are concerned including Islam, I am not going to waste my time in haggling. I have already got enough on my plate. Thanks for the offer / invitation, though. McKhan
It has nothing to do with control. Timothy Usher has left a message for you on my talkpage which I agree with completely. BhaiSaab talk 03:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
We don't need to know a lot about Al-Ahbash to know how to distinguish between what is allowed and what is not allowed by policy. BhaiSaab talk 03:54, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
If you've noticed, I haven't made any content edits on the Al-Ahbash article because I feel I should read more on them before I do so. I feel I have enough knowledge about Islam to edit Islam-related articles, and I don't particularly appreciate the sarcastic tone. BhaiSaab talk 04:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I think the amount of editors countering your edits regarding the Al-Ahbash speaks for itself and "my haggling." BhaiSaab talk 04:11, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
This discussion isn't going anywhere, so I've started a new one on Talk:Al-Ahbash. BhaiSaab talk 04:20, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Good luck. Keep talking to yourself. Nobody is going to baby-sit you about the sources. McKhan
Does that mean you won't participate? I find that unfortunate. How do you expect the article to move forward then? The best source about a people's beliefs are the people themselves. BhaiSaab talk 04:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Good luck. Keep talking to yourself. Nobody is going to baby-sit you about the sources. McKhan
Is there an echo in here? BhaiSaab talk 04:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, In your mind. McKhan

[edit] Minor Edits

Remember to mark your edits as minor only when they genuinely are (see Wikipedia:Minor edit). "The rule of thumb is that an edit of a page that is spelling corrections, formatting, and minor rearranging of text should be flagged as a 'minor edit'." BhaiSaab talk 17:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Mainstream Muslims Vs. Al-Ahbash has been deleted. BhaiSaab talk 19:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The above user

I see that User:BhaiSaab has tried to bait you here [4]. Feel free to join the discussion on his actions here [5]. Bakaman Bakatalk 01:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flat Earth

As an expert in Ahbash, please add your comments to this article: Muslim flat-earth theories. --Islamic 01:28, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

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