Talk:May you live in interesting times
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[edit] Ernest Bramah
I've just checked the works by this author currently available in Gutenberg, and none of them feature this phrase. So citation locators will need to look further afield ...
- Four Max Carrodos Detective Stories (English)
- Kai Lung's Golden Hours (English)
- The Mirror of Kong Ho (English)
- The Wallet of Kai Lung (English)
[edit] clarfication
how is may you find what you are looking for a curse. I don't get it.
- All three of these "curses" seem to have double meanings; the second perhaps less obviously than the other three(keep in mind that "coming to the attention of those in power" could mean having your achievements recognized by powerful people, rather than being found by oppressive authorities). "May you find what you are looking for" being the strongest curse of the three is probably meant to imply that people often "look for" things that they (according to some other philosophy of life) don't really need, perhaps things that in the end will make them unhappier rather than happier. It seems to me as if all three are meant to actually be "curses" while sounding like blessings. (If the sayings are not genuinely Chinese, as the article seems to imply they might not be, this reversal might be an expression of the Western tendency to simplify Eastern philosophy down to simple inversions of Western thinking - in any case, no matter the origin of the sayings, the irony would seem to be intentional in all three cases.)
[edit] A possible origin
A Chinese myself and I saw this so called Chinese proverb over some website, which makes me ponder for days. By the meanings and if it is a blessing, the closest I can get is:
生于忧患¹ 死于安乐²
(Traditional Chinese 生於憂患¹ 死於安樂²
transliterated Sheng Yu You Huan¹ Si Yu An Le²)
literal translation:
¹Born (or survive or live) in chaotic (or risky, interesting) time.
²Die in a peaceful time
Writen by Mencius (Chinese 孟子, transliterated Meng Zi)
Meanings¹
1) Born (or survive or live) in a hush environment will make a person to be tough, both body and mind.
2) Those who are prepared will survive. (used with 3. below)
Meanings²
This part could be what original person that coined the curse version left out, which confused all of us from it's origin, multiple meanings:
1. That person took part in gaining the peace, which make the person treasure it in a peaceful time as someone important.
2. The tough body and mind allows the person who is trained, to survived until the chaotic time is over.
3. This was added with the third link below, that website translated this part as:
Those who live in peaceful time are weak and they won't survive during troubled time.
References (Simplified Chinese)
www.audio-books.cn 有声读物网
China Basic Education 中国基础教育网
www.fainfo.com 圣言学堂
P/S
1) I never heard "It's better to be a dog in a peaceful time than be a man in a chaotic period." before, can someone show me the proverb ?
2) "May you be born in an important time" ?! Confucius ?! This is getting more and more weird...
3) Edited this section a few times. That's the problem with translating Chinese literatures.
--Alepandro 21:04, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Another Variation
The third 'Chinese' curse frequently occurs as Be careful what you wish for: you may get it. The meaning is not changed, but the heavy-handed overtones of the second phrase makes the irony more obvious.
[edit] "May you find what you are looking for"
Although I don't recognize where was the "interesting times" translated from, I can recognize the origin of the last "curse". It is 求仁得仁 --Billyswong 17:08, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
