Talk:Matt Leinart

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Contents 1 The Leinart Vandal 2 Football 3 abuse of power 4 unblock this page please 5 Unprotected 6 Vindication! 7 Matt Leinart Homosexual Sources 8 semi-protection 9 Leinart 10 Illegal push? 11 NFL Draft 12 ==His Appearance on Punk'd== 13 Matt Leinart a father

[edit] The Leinart Vandal

The vandal has been confirmed as a lone vandal. A checkuser request has confirmed that all IP edits in the discussion below, with the exception of 218.101.64.162, have come from the same user. If you have questions, contact me on my talk page. Please keep this at the top of the page. T K E 05:55, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Football

• Is his arm strength best described as "adequate"? While he's not Brett Favre, it's better than adequate; Marc Bulger's arm is adequate, or Jon Kitna, or Chad Pennington. While there's a distinction to be made at the NFL level between "adequate" arms and the truly pop-gun variety (Jay Fiedler, Cade McNown when he played, etc.), I think Leinart stands out above Bulger, Kitna, Pennington, Warner, or maybe even Brady in terms of zip on throws, meaning he's "solid" or "above-average" in that department, not merely "adequate". -- Davis21Wylie September 10, 2005

I have to agree, although I think Jon Kitna does have an above-average arm. The likenesses between Leinart and Brady are uncanny, and Brady's got a solid arm, so I second the motion to have the adjective changed.Treima 17:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Are you saying Cade McNown had a gun? no he didnt thats why he didnt make it because his throws couldnt cut through the chicago wind. And word is the Jets didnt want to draft Leinart because they didnt think his arm was a Jay Cutler or a Vince Young.

---

Leinart did announce in Jan. 2005 that he was gay. This should not be deleted anymore and nobody should have a problem with him being gay. I do not understand the rampant homophobia on this topic. 65.103.208.149 December 29, 2005

Leinart never announced he was gay. It's not "rampant homophobia" to revert statements that are not true. Dude's dating a supermodel, plus YayCollege! even has a "Matt Leinart Bang-O-Meter" chronicling the number of starlets Matt has bagged this season! - Davis21Wylie (t) 14:50, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Matt Leinart is not gay. It's incredibly stupid that we even have to have this discussion.--Alhutch 18:11, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

• To the anonymous user who removed the comments above:

1. It's contrary to Wikipedia practice to revert or remove content from talk pages except for cases of blatant vandalism. Discussion is discussion, even if it's banal.
2. They're not "useless comments" if the discussion, such as it is, keeps the same baseless assertion from being posted to the article again.

I put a temporary block on the editor who kept adding the gay comment. His "sources" were laughable. From available evidence, as if it really mattered, the subject of the article is gay only in the fantasies of that editor. Now let's drop the subject. — Kbh3^rdtalk 06:01, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Boy, don't I feel stupid. I actually believed he was gay just from reading it here. Just goes to show that sometimes you gotta check those sources...66.80.212.78 23:57, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Just because he is dating a girl doesn't mean he's straight. Ever heard of Elton John and George Michael, genius? User:218.101.64.126 11:34, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

• You could use that argument for anyone. However, if the only evidence you have about anyone's personal life is that they are straight, their being straight is the only conclusion you can logically reach. Wahkeenah 06:46, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] abuse of power

An administrator (Alhutch) semi-protected this page as an abuse of power because he dislikes legitimate edits. Please un-protect this page immediately.

you have yet to cite your sources. Go ahead.--Alhutch 02:06, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Alhutch, for protecting this page... I was going to suggest it myself. This "Matt Leinart is gay" thing is becoming quite tiresome. "Sources"? Ha! - Davis21Wylie 03:17, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

thanks for the support. the "matt leinart is gay" edits have come from several very persistent IPs. I'm not sure what's behind the whole thing.--Alhutch 05:21, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's ludicrous that this has gone on for as long as it has, thank you for the protection. IanMcGreene 20:19, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] unblock this page please

There are legitimate people that want to edit the article. Your petty squabbling over something so idiotic as this is ruining people's experience on Wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.161.12.114 (talk • contribs).

good point. on my way.--Alhutch 05:59, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Holy smokes!!! You're one of the IPs who kept putting in the "Matt Leinart is gay" thing. I previously blocked you for that reason! I can't believe I got tricked so easily. I'm reprotecting the page, and checking the contribs page next time an IP asks me to unprotect a page.--Alhutch 06:04, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Don't be so petty Alhutch, there are multiple people using the same IPs. Legitimate people want to edit this page. You are being petty because you disagree with arguably true edits. You are abusing what protected status was supposed to be for.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cooldc19 (talk • contribs).

You are very smart, unsigned guy.

As I've repeatedly said, I'm more than willing to post sources for my edits. Alhutch is just being the prototypical power-hungry rude admin. I haven't posted sources because of Alhutch's abuse toward me and lack of respect for me as a human being and fellow Wikipedian.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.161.12.114 (talk • contribs).

that's all well and good, but since you have the ability to edit this talk page, why don't you post the sources right here, right now? Please go ahead, I am watching the page.--Alhutch 06:58, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

You don't have any sources. Stop wasting my time.--Alhutch 07:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

See another example of your abusiveness. I will provide sources in due time. It takes a while to compile everything you buffoon.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.161.12.114 (talk • contribs).

By the way, as you said when you were applying to be an admin: "if I have been rude to another user, I always make sure to apologize." You owe me and every other wikipedian on this page an apology for being so rude.

and you calling me a buffoon wasn't rude?--Alhutch 16:16, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I, on the other hand, have no such qualms about being rude to other (anonymous) users. You, IP 141.161.12.114 (and all the other IP's who have vandalized this page in the past few months), are disingenuous, arrogant, and infantile, and you are not a "fellow Wikipedian" in anyone's mind... you are a vandal. You will not "provide sources in due time," because you have no sources. Alhutch owes no one an apology; you, as you so eloquently put it, are the one who "owes me and every other wikipedian on this page an apology". This nonsense has persisted for months, and it needs to stop. Now. (Davis21Wylie now sits back and waits for massive amounts of vandalization on his user page...) - Davis21Wylie 15:55, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Too many a-nones are like al-Qaeda setting off car bombs, except unfortunately they don't die. Maybe that's a little extreme. Actually, they are more like crabgrass on your front lawn. Wahkeenah 18:19, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Wow what a bunch of ruffians admins seem to be. Comparing IPs to al-qaeda is really incredibly rude, not to mention stupid, and unbecoming of a true Wikipedian. I'll be sure to report you to the proper authorities for punishment. You my friend, are a rude rude person, and a sorry excuse for an admin. And to Alhutch, I am sorry I called you a buffoon but that doesn't change the fact that you were rude first and have continued to be rude. You should apologize just as you promised when you were running for adminship. User:141.161.12.114 23:05, 23 February 2006

I reeled in the al-Qaeda comment and instead compared you to crabgrass, which I notice you did not challenge. >:) Wahkeenah 00:13, 24 February 2006 (UTC) P.S. I am not an Admin. I would not run if nominated, and if elected I would not serve. >:)

Boy, that edit war was fun, wasn't it, guys? Dude must have set up an account and waited four days to start vandalising again! Committed to this whole thing, aren't they? Wishful thinking on their part, maybe? - Davis21Wylie 23:55, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Exactly what he did. I don't understand this guy's motivations at all.--Alhutch 00:31, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unprotected

The article is now unprotected. Editors that have violated the WP:3RR rule, have been blocked for 24 hrs. I will be monitoring this article. Note that edit wares never produce any useful results. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 03:32, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Jossi, I really don't think you fully understand the situation. Look at the substance of the edits that Cooldc19 and the IP contributors were inserting. We have been dealing with these people for some time on this article, and I believe the situation was quite under control already. Davis21Wylie was completely in the right in this situation, and should be unblocked immediately. I won't do it myself without your approval as I do not want to start a wheel war, but please do unblock him now.--Alhutch 03:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I am not familiar with the subject of the article, but it is my opinion based on what I have seen in the history that it is not so black and white as you describe it. The fact that the editor is an annon, does not mean that he/she does not deserve the same courtesy extended to logged-in editors. My view is that this is a content dispute. You may want to ask an additional sysop for their comments. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 03:57, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I'll take it up on WP:AN/I.--Alhutch 04:03, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

It is pretty clearly vandalism. Familiarity with the subject matter is important here, I guess. While it's possible that Leinart could come out, it's incredibly unlikely, adding a claim like that would require a source to be cited. Anyway, sports articles frequently see vandalism like this... especially "golden boy" quarterback types. Totally fits the vandalism profile, it's not a content dispute until an actual source gets cited. --W.marsh 04:32, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

agree. The situation with Davis21Wylie has been cleared up. Hopefully the vandals don't return.--Alhutch 04:34, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

After we discussed the situation with Alhutch, the block of User:Davis21Wylie has been removed. I would want to draw the editors attention to the fact that if any one needs to revert what they consider to be vandalism, to do so without comments such as the ones made by Davis21Wylie in the edit summaries. That is just feeding the trolls. I would also remind editors that the official policy of no personal attacks, applies to all contributors of Wikipedia, including anons, and yes, even those that engage in vandalism. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 04:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vindication!

Hey Alhutch, this IS a content dispute. There is clear evidence that Matt Leinart is a homosexual. Unfortunately because I have been so busy with work, I and the other IP have not been able to get around to posting sources but we WILL in the near future. There are many sources to dig up so please give us time. Luckily we have been VINDICATED by a third party who saw that your actions were highly inappropriate, excessive and a clear violation of Wikipedia's standards and policies. Alhutch, you and your friends should be ashamed of yourself for your extreme level of immaturity in this matter. Thank you to Cooldc19 (whoever you may be) for standing up for us and facing the consequences of your courage tonight. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.48.237.65 (talk • contribs).

I have blocked 68.48.237.65 as a vandal (see main article edit history). Reporting this on AN/I too for full disclosure. --W.marsh 05:10, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I blocked the user too, plenty of warnings on user's talk page. These edits are not legitimate.--Alhutch 05:12, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Matt Leinart Homosexual Sources

Hey guys,

I finally got off early from work tonight and found a few of my sources. This is not a comprehensive list. I will post more when I have more time

http://boifromtroy.com/?p=4717 Scroll down to statement that "MATT LEINART AND THE REST OF THE TROJANS IN THE BATH HOUSE ARE GAY"

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lucero/050830 Matt Leinart winks at a freshman male, in a gay manner

http://www.mattleinartfan.blogspot.com/ Associated Press article stating that Matt Leinart came out. This in particular is irrefutable evidence of his homosexuality. Additionally this blog appears to be by a straight fan who is shocked that he is gay.

I hope this satisfies the people who continually REVERT our fully appropriate and sourced edits. Please do not revert any longer. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.48.237.65 (talk • contribs).

Not to belabor the obvious, but the "sources" consist of A) an anonymous blog comment, B) a work of satire and C) a fake AP article. Weak trolling attempt, needs more cowbell. --W.marsh 05:03, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, that clears up everything, doesn't it? (Sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell) You (or some other phantom IP intent on the same type of vandalization) already showed us the first two "sources", and frankly they're laughable. "Boi from Troy"'s posts are simply wishful thinking on that writer's part... the ESPN article is clearly to be taken tongue-in-cheek, as the "Do you think he's gay?" remark only serves to underscore the rampant Leinart-mania that existed on the USC campus at that time, especially among younger students. As for your third "source"... It's a blog that I'd wager you created yourself, a fabricated reference the likes of which would give even Jayson Blair and Stephen Glass pause. Oh, and that "AP Story" is fake. Whoever they are, "Jamaal Lanson" and "Jessica Lakeson" do not write for the AP (or any news service, for that matter). A google search for their names returned no results. If this is the best you've got, you should just give it up. It's over. - Davis21Wylie 05:08, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

To user Davis21Wylie: When reverting vandalism, please use the summary "rvv" or "rv vandalism" only. Do not make comments about the other editors even if they are disrruptive. Revert and place a notice at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism. Thank you for not feeding the trolls and keeping civility in mind ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 22:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] semi-protection

I've unprotected the page. I don't feel that one vandal is reason enough to semi-protect a page. Especially with the draft coming up, it is likely that anons/new users will have many contributions to make to this page. It takes about a minute at most to revert and block the guy. --W.marsh 01:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

• The draft is a good point in removing the unprotect. The vandal is one person, I'm convinced and I have no problem RV over and over without feeding the troll. Report to an admin, get the IP blocked and wait to see if he comes back. He's gotta run out of computers eventually. TKE 01:21, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

• I agree.--Alhutch 01:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

wow.--Alhutch 05:44, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

• The cat came back. TKE 05:45, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm gonna start blocking as soon as I see it come up on my watchlist.--Alhutch 05:48, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

• It's gotten a bit silly, I semi-protected the page for now. I have emailed abuse at Georgetown (where he presumably goes to school, or at least is using their internet connection). Semi-protecting isn't a good long-term solution, but for now it works... --W.marsh 05:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I mean, we could spend all night blocking sock puppets, or we could semi protect. the latter seems the better option for now.--Alhutch 05:51, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Yup. I think his relevant QB information is there, and he is expected to go second in the draft. With a University IP all he has to do is log off and then on again. Shame. TKE 05:57, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leinart

Hey guys,

I really disagree with how the admins are becoming so corrupt and are inappropriately stifling a fact about leinart that they just don't like. I fully support all the many people who are opposing the admins' corruptness. Here is an additional source I found today on Leinart's homosexuality. I hope this puts this issue to rest once and for all:

http://www.answers.com/topic/matt-leinart

• The source for that writeup is your phony entry on wikipedia, slavishly copied by that website as they do so much other wikipedia stuff. If Leinart actually were "openly gay", it would be a major news story. It isn't, and he ain't. Wahkeenah 17:52, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, that answers.com site is a little less embarrassing to the vandal than his Jukt Micronics-esque phony blog, but still... There's no point in using logic at this juncture, just revert and block, revert and block. - Davis21Wylie 18:44, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm waiting for someone to semi-protect it. I'm just a lowly user with no authority to do so. >:( Wahkeenah 18:47, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

My apologies to answers.com. It's not a stealth ripoff. It says right at the top of the page that wikipedia is its source. Wahkeenah 18:55, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• That and if you'll notice, it's editors reverting your crap. Admins come in when called. It's been six weeks, go to bed already. TKE 19:27, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• In the future, if he returns, feel free to request protection at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection, or through me directly (but I might not be around). Keeping the page protected long-term is, as discussed, not something that should happen. --W.marsh 19:35, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I wonder where it went after being so persistent earlier today. Maybe recess was over. Wahkeenah 19:44, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

nope, they're back. revert and block, revert and block.--Alhutch 02:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

everyone feel free to drop me a line on my talk page if there's an attack, and i'll come and block the vandals if I'm around.--Alhutch 06:17, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

The vandal is up to 22 21 socks, but resistance is futile! T K E 06:37, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

It often seems to create them two at a time, so it will usually have its sockpuppets in pairs. :) Wahkeenah 06:46, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Right, that's going on the sock page with W. marsh's comment. T K E 06:49, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

what the heck is this fellow's motivation? the sock count is up to 23 with the two i just added, but who's really counting.--Alhutch 06:51, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Raises Hand. T K E 07:40, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if there are any other vandals so active they have their own category? Talk about Dubious Achievements. I think the page understates the case, as I think that Leinart looney has used several IP addresses at various times. As to motivation, that would be known only to the vandal, if anyone. It reminds me of some other minor vandalism wars recently, such as with the George Reeves article. But in my admittedly narrow wiki world of experience, I have yet to run into any other vandal so persistent. Wahkeenah 06:59, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Every sock template created makes a page; it's autogenerated. They can be found at Category:Wikipedia: Suspected sock puppets of Username. As to prolific, there are many. Willy on Wheels mentioned below is fairly humorous- the user adds "ON WHEELS!" to random articles. The Communist vandal is less funny. I find this one to be amusing in scrappiness. T K E 07:47, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

• I didn't link the sock thing because I'm too lazy to find the sock temp link list. So sue me. T K E 07:48, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

There's a few famous ones, like Willy on Wheels and Mr. Treason and others. I think they're detailed here: Wikipedia:Long term abuse#Unique_entities. those ones get imitated sometimes. i have never seen one so persistent as this one either.--Alhutch 07:07, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

BTW, it's just a singular person at Georgetown University. But there ain't nothing to do but watch, revert, wash, rinse, repeat. T K E 07:52, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Illegal push?

I think it was Sports Illustrated that had stated Leinart was pushed over the line by Bush in the Notre Dame game. I just saw the replay, and they were right. Whoever keeps deleting the fairly neutral (and generous) "some claim he was pushed" is out of line. Wahkeenah 01:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Please settle this dispute here; I asked the IP to come and comment. T K E 00:03, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, my bad; I thought it was another vandal. - Davis21Wylie 00:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

No problem. User IP 67.48.90.179 is not the Leinart vandal, 68.__.__.__ are. The 67 IP has only contributed with this edit; hopefully the user will weigh in. T K E 01:16, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I found this link, with this quote:

"USC running back Reggie Bush violated a rule when he helped push quarterback Matt Leinart into the end zone for the winning touchdown against Notre Dame, but a national officiating coordinator said Sunday that the play would not have been reviewable even if a replay system had been in use for the game. Bush acknowledged after the game that he attempted to push Leinart into the end zone. -- Los Angeles Times"

If Bush himself admits to it, I think we can safely leave it in. - Davis21Wylie 00:24, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• Hey, User 67.48.90.179 here. Sorry, I wasn't trying to be "out of line" in continually changing the part about the push. I just think putting it in there changes the context of the article and takes away credit from Leinart. If you watch football, you realize this kind of play happens somewhat often and is almost never called unless it is extremely conspicuous or lasts several seconds (even then, it's almost never called as an illegal push). If we want to start another whole article about the play, I have no problem with it. If we want to leave it in on this article, that's fine, too. I will say, though, that one time I tried to mention that Weis himself said he had no problem with the push, and that, too, got deleted by someone. So, on that note, here, I'll provide a link with Weis's quote: this link ...

"After seeing replays, some Irish fans were upset that Bush wasn't penalized for pushing Leinart in. But Weis said even though it's against the rules, he had no problem with it.

'That's a heads up by Reggie and hopefully any running back I had would be pushing right along with him,' he said.-- Sporting News"

Therefore, if you're going to say that some claim it was an illegal push, then I think it's fair to include Weis's comments as well to keep the play in context. On the other hand, if you start including all that, you're going off on a tangent and giving the play more attention than it deserves in an article about Matt Leinart, in my opinion. Like I said, if you're going to talk about it that much, perhaps it's best to start another article entirely on the subject. But it doesn't matter to me anymore. Do as you guys will. I want to say for the record, too, that before I get blamed further for being out of line, I have contributed to various parts of this article, including parts about Leinart's youth, his performance in the Rose Bowl and the summary of the Notre Dame game - all of the numbers and stats should be correct. Hopefully I've contributed more than I've harmed. Thanks much. —This unsigned comment was added by 67.48.90.179 (talk • contribs) .

• No one has criticized your contributions, nor have you harmed the article. That's why I asked you to weigh in here. T K E 05:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Further Clarification Many of your edits were reverted by accident because of the vandal, I apologize on behalf of all the other editors. T K E 05:44, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• In my view, if you're going to talk about the great play at Notre Dame, you have to acknowledge the push. Otherwise, don't even bring up the subject. Officials don't always catch these things. In the NFL it likely would have been reviewed and the touchdown nullified. The Green Bay touchdown to win the "Ice Bowl" game, a quarterback sneak, was a similar play. The Packers halfback (I forget who it was) raised his arms to show the official he had not pushed Starr across. That became a famous photo, since he appeared to be signaling "touchdown". I wouldn't go so far as to say the "Bush push" was some gross miscarriage of justice, especially as the Irish shouldn't have let them get that close. It's just one of those things. Wahkeenah 06:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
• Wahk, what would have happened in the NFL is irrelevant and has absolutely no bearing on a college football game (I'm certainly far from convinced that it would have been reviewed and overturned in the NFL anyway). As has been said, in the college game - which this was, as we all know - it wouldn't have been overturned even if it could have been reviewed. Furthermore, every year in all kinds of games there are all kinds of controversial plays that go for scores that don't get called back. Heck, it's even been said that officials could call holding on basically every down because that's how frequently it occurs. (And BTW, when was the last time you saw an illegal push get called in college football, anyway?) That's football. Remember Vince Young on the option pitch in the Rose Bowl that scored a TD and replays clearly showed that his knee was down. Yet I haven't yet seen discussion on how that play should have been called back. If we're going to be discussing every single controversial call in football, we can add a few more thousand pages to wikipedia. I'll gladly contribute to doing so if you like. I'm just warning that it might become tiresome. Like I said, at this point, if you all want to leave in the thing about the push, it's perfectly fine by me. But just saying "hey, some claim it was an illegal push!" leaves a lot to subjectivity while also leaving much necessary context out to adequately explain the situation (and perhaps why the push was ruled correctly and was NOT ruled to be illegal), especially when the opposing coach himself doesn't think it was a big deal and in fact states that it was a great play. Just my opinion. Again, sorry for being out of line earlier.

I think we should keep the description of the push if we are to describe the great 61-yard pass that preceded it, but also include the fact that Weis was okay with the push, the fact that it was not reviewable, and source the LA Times and The Sporting News for the sake of documentation. Also, "some observers claim" may need to be re-written in light of Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words. This way, all points of view will be accomodated in the article. - Davis21Wylie 14:31, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• If it's against the rules, then it's against the rules, and it doesn't matter who was "OK with it". And since Bush owned up to it, "some observers claim" should be replaced by "Bush acknowledged". However, it could be a single line with a single parenthetic citation, and that should be sufficient. It's not going to change the game's outcome. And USC lost the national title, so their illegal action was eventually punished by the football gods. >:) Wahkeenah 14:56, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
• You're right - if it's against the rules, it's against the rules. But this is where the debate is: was it in fact illegal? Just because Bush "owned up to it" does not make it against the rules. And just as it apparently doesn't matter who was "OK with it," then it doesn't matter what Reggie says or doesn't say about it. We all saw what happened. Even still, it's realistically a completely subjective call. How many short yardage plays have there been in football in which the fullback pushed the tailback or the tailback pushed the QB or a lineman pushed a ballcarrier down the field? Answer: lots. How many of these plays have ever been penalized for an illegal push? Answer: hardly any. If there are any, it's usually for a push for a sustained length of time or amount of yardage. And no, I don't have a citation for that, but I have watched a lot of football at all levels over the years. In any case, Wahk is right: right or wrong, there are in fact people who CLAIM that it was illegal, so I'm "OK with" a citation of some sort. It certainly was a controversial episode at the time (and still is, I'm sure, among certain ND circles).

• So it's agreed that a mention should be in the article, which fits the Music City Miracle. Now, wording is the last step and then the article is pretty much down. T K E 04:08, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NFL Draft

By basically saying he is going to be taken by the Tennessee Titans and only the Tennessee Titans when they are actively considering Vince Young is pov. The Oakland Raiders are a possibility and the New York Jets, but the middle 1st round teams could move up as well though I doubt somebody like the Colts or the Steelers could or would move up.

63.173.47.193 14:27, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Well it's not exactly violating POV since it is attributing the prediction to specific commentators. Feel free to rewrite it, but it's probably best to cite sources. --W.marsh 14:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ==His Appearance on Punk'd==

Did everyone in USC worked with Ashton Kutcher to set up Leinart (including Reggie Bush)? BigBang19 23:49 PST, 5 May 2006

[edit] Matt Leinart a father

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0830Leinart-ON.html Should anybody include this information in the article?