Talk:Marilyn Monroe

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[edit] Vandlism on in Early Years Section

First line: "Marilyn Monroe murdered Elvis Presley in his home. She slept with him, and soon found out he was married, so she killed himm while having sex in the bathroom."

[edit] Orphanage Inconsistency

Guys, there is a major paradox in her early life. It says that she was sent to orphangages in LA when the Goddard's moved east and that she was sexually abused at the orphanages. Then it says she was with the Goddard's at the time she met James Dougherty (check out James Dougherty, it says the same). So which was it? Did she meet James so she wouldn't have to go to the orphanages, or was she already in the orphanages? CHB 15:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the tape

Marilyn Monroe, American actress, singer, sex symbol, had at least one sexual experience with another woman, as quoted from tapes to her psycologist that have since been released to the public.

I removed this from the [[List of famous gay,--70.135.3.145 15:51, 7 October 2006 (UTC) lesbian or bisexual people]] because of a criteria on that article which requires that anyone listed there must have a reference to sexual orientation on their biography page. One reason is so that editors familiar with the subject can evaluate the claim. Is the tape considered a reliable source? Should this be added here too? -Willmcw 08:13, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Speaking of Tapes, there are copy of tapes available and all the legal docs from the clerk of courts on Barbara Monroe, the woman who has legal and federal documents providing a large amount of information proving her blood line. It's rummorred that she also has a tape recording of the actual social security call, along with phone records, and documentation mailed to her from them in post marked packaging. Does anyone know where I can actually get my hands on this stuff, short of going county to county.

i was just thinking about how i read in the atlantic magazine a few months ago about that. yes, it's a reliable source and i think it should be included. Joeyramoney 23:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article improvement

I have just polished the language style up to (not including) the death to try and make it slightly more encyclopedia-like rather than biographical. I hope it's a little bit of an improvement. Arnie587 01:12, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Anomaly

The article contains a non-sensical couple of sentences in the 6th paragraph of the marriage section:

On February 4, 1961, she was admitted by her then-psychiatrist into Manhattan's Payne-Whitney Clinic, reportedly placed in the ward for the most seriously disturbed. He got her out six days later, and took her to the Payne Whitney Psychiatric Clinic at New York Presbyterian Hospital

Does anyone have the necessary information to correct this? Arnie587 01:12, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image Gallery

On a similar note, galleries of fair use images are not allowed, because all fair use images are supposed to be referred to from the text itself. See Wikipedia:Fair use for fair use guidelines. --Fastfission 03:15, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
- I can't believe that folks don't know what Monroe looks like, so unless we're actually commenting on the photos themselves I don't see any reason for filling the article with images. -Willmcw 04:04, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
  - Given that her image is such an integral part of what she represents to the culture, an image gallery is entirely appropriate. The fair use guidelines are beyond my understanding at this time, but need to be followed. The article was better with the image gallery. This is not a paper encyclopedia and we are not in any way restricted to text only. The images used were iconic images entirely appropriate and they should be put back.—Gaff ^ταλκ 05:53, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
    - The images are all private property, and posting them here violates the copyrights of the owners. In certain special circumstances an exception is allowed in the copyright law, "fair use", but that exception mostly pertains only when we are discussing the photos themselves, rather than just the subject of the photos. So if we offered criticism of the photos such as talking about their lighting and composition then we'd be justified in using them. However doing so would violate Wikipedia's rule against original research and other aspects of what Wikipedia is not. If you can find any public domain photos, then there'd be less of a reason to exclude them. -Willmcw 05:43, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Easy way to shorten this article

Could someone move the whole Quotations section into Wikiquote to shorten this article? Yoninah 21:33, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

If it hasn't already been done by the time I reach it during my gradual copyedit of the article, I'll do so.

Best wishes, David Kernow 06:44, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] RFK

There is not a single credentialed historian that I have seen -- critical or supportive -- who believes MM and RFK had an affair. There are critical and supportive historians who refute this, pointing to J.E. Hoover's desire to have dirt on RFK and the fact that the younger Kennedy was morally clean. This in fact was a major frustration for JEH.

Who are you? When did you write this? Achilles2006 05:56, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The DiMaggio Wedding

Did you know that Monroe married Joe DiMaggio on my mom's 2nd birthday? My chatterbox 12-year-old brother told me that. -Kathywimmer 08:41, January 2, 2006 (UTC)

When told about team-mate Joe DiMaggio's intention to marry Marilyn Monroe, the legendary New York Yankees catcher Yogi Berra supposedly remarked, "I don't know if it's good for baseball, but it sure beats the hell out of rooming with Phil Rizzuto". From "The Boxing Register, A Who's Who of Sports Champions" by Tom Weir. *Guy 20:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Her mockery

She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show. He is a preacher and Evangelist and he drives expensive cars and has a huge expensive house that God paid for and the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.

After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said: "I don't need YOUR Jesus"

A week later, she was found dead in her apartment.

Correction. A week later, she was found dead in her house.

So, I'm confused. Does this mean she was killed by God. The same one that paid for Billy Graham's house?Rossrs 01:05, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Laurel Awards

Is it really necessary to include the rather insignificant Laurel Award rankings in the "Awards and Nominations" section? Practically every A-list star got a Laurel nod back then. Their inclusion only makes the list heavier and more blurry. --Downtownstar 15:26, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Since nobody seems to oppose, I'm going to erase the Laurel Awards.--Downtownstar 06:16, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name

In the first sentence, the article states she was born Norma Jeane Mortensen, and then in the next sentence, states that she was born Norma Jeane Baker. Further in the article, it mentions some disagreement between her family about what to name her. I don't know which should be left, so if anyone knows please correct. Sylvea

Done it. Her legal name was Mortensen. Sometimes the name shown on a baptism certificate is different from the legal name, and that's what happened here. But baptism certificates are church documents, not legal documents. They do not have the effect of changing the person's legal name. JackofOz 22:48, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] death

do you know that she commtitted suicide, but then as she felt hewrslef going under, she made a telephone call to someone because she changed her mind, but he didnt come, and instead call her psychiatrist, who then call the housekeeper to check on her. At about 3 am in the morining, she was found dead with her hand on the phone. the point is that she decided to commit suicide by taking and overdose of sleeping pills, but chnaged her mind and called a few people, who i forgot what their names were, but no one came and it was too late.

she was going through many bad things that time, and she had recently been fired, and she was aging... It is just very sad, because all those people who took her as an empty headed blonde, and all those people who tried to replace her.. she showed them.

When interviewed, all the women said that if they knew she was going to die, they would never have made any comments about her. she was also upset because she wanted children very badly, but she had many miscarriages.

[edit] a person who died just like monroe

DOROTHY DANDRIDGE. research her and read her biography on wikipedia marilyn monroe did not die because of suicide it was proven in her autopsy (before it "disappared") that no pills were taken it showed in the documents that were saved from the autopsy that a yellowish lining wasnt in her stomach as it should've been if she overdosed on the pills they say she did(or any other medications)the autospy didn't get finished to find much of anu thing else. The only thing that was found out of the ordinary before the autopsy was stolen was that her colon was discolored... So dont ever say she died from an overdose of pills I've read way to many books and met way to many people for you to put her down like that, yes she was depressed at that time but she DIDN'T DO THAT she had been murdered (it wasnt an accident either) she had been moved and placed back on her bed ( when they found her, (yes her hand was on the phone) but she was also found laying straight" as a stick" (if you will)so you give me more evidence that she commited suicide and i'll look at it from your point of view.

I also don't believe that Marylin Monroe might not have died from a drug overdose, but it IS possible. Nobody knows for sure and nobody will EVER find out. Its one of the saddest mysteries.

[edit] "Most famous"

Is she the most famous? She has been called that... but I think we could use to temper the language... (not sure for how many versions it has been that way...) gren グレン 18:54, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

What method should we use? "Marilyn Monroe has been cited as one of the most famous actresses of the twentieth-century"? —Eternal Equinox | talk 19:19, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

It really is a matter of opinion, whichever way you look at it. I fixed the sentence a little, now it simply states she's one of the most famous.--Downtownstar 16:54, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, somebody keeps reverting the sentences back so that she's called "the most famous" and "the most bankable" star of all-time. These superlatives are clearly POV and there's absolutely no evidence to back up the "most bankable" claim. I'm not fixing them anymore because I don't want a war, but don't you think the expressions are rather unencyclopedic?--Downtownstar 15:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

They are completely unencyclopedic, completely inappropriate and inaccurate. I've reverted. For one thing she never became "the most bankable" - see the Quigley poll, regarded as one of the most credible barometers of an actor's success - [1] and you'll see Monroe never topped the list of top 10 bankable stars although she made the top 10 in 1953, 1954 and 1958.. Not all of her films were profitable, although many of them were. Much of Monroe's fame and certainly a large part of her iconic status have developed in the years since her death. This page is like many that become the domain of overzealous fans who should carefully read WP:POV and WP:NPOV. Rossrs 21:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crypt picture

The crypt at the Westwood Village Memorial Park Cemetery

I uploaded a picture of the crypt where Marylin Monroe is buried. I linked to it from the Death of Marilyn Monroe article, but not sure if it should show up in htis article. Maybe if a few more words are added here about where she is buried. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 03:59, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comedic skills & witty lines

An observation from the few Monroe films I've seen - she seemed to have a consistent style of wit and brilliant delivery, from as early as All About Eve - but I'm wondering who wrote the lines? Did she have any input? Or did she get typecast, with writers continuing to write the same kinds of parts to play, and the same style of witty dialogue? I'm also thinking of her comment about her playboy shoot - "It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on," which I had assumed she came up with herself, though I don't know. Anyone know more about this? --Singkong2005 14:28, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Surely you jest? smile. You asked who wrote the lines... Well, writers do. Snappy wit and wise-cracks was common in Hollywood long before Marilyn - take a look at some "pre-codes", "Stage Door," or the euphemisms in a Busby Berkeley movie like "Footlight Parade". A writer might tailor a part for someone, and after Marilyn had achieved a certain level of acclaim they would have tailored a part for her, but the credit generally goes to great writers like Mankiewicz and Wilder. Look at a great movie like "A Letter to Three Wives", "Midnight," "The Apartment" - movies which Marilyn was not involved with. The dialogue is sparkling. 67.10.133.121 22:36, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Superfluous links

Do the words "mental hospital", "modelling agency" and other generic nouns really need to be linked? This article is in need of more serious quality control than this, but taking out the links to non-encyclopedaic articles would at least be a start.

[edit] DAUGHTER??

Did Mariyln Monroe have a daughter or not??? Can someone please add something here??

I dont think she had a daughter... they would've revealed themself by now if she did...

No, Marilyn never had a child. She had one ectopic pregnancy that had to be ended to save her life, and at least two other miscarriages. This is because she suffered the disease endometriosis, which greatly affected her life. This disease would explain her fatigue, the pain would explain her absences from work (as with any disease, endo often causes women to be unable to work), her addiction to painkillers, it could have added to her depression. It seems odd to me that it doesn't get commented on much by biographers when it clearly caused great devastation to her life. I believe she tried all the medical treatments at the time, including surgery, but none were successful. They barely understand the disease today so it must have been much worse in the 50s. LouiseCooke

[edit] Cleaning

I thoroughly edited the article. Hopefully it's a little less POV now. Let me know how I did and please don't hesitate working on it as well. --Downtownstar 22:08, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible vandalism?

From the article: Talked a club owner into booking Ella Fitzgerald [19];

the url for [19] is "http://www.findadeath.com/" which I'm guessing is vandalism. But I don't know the original url....

How is that vandalism? It's a legitimate URL.

P.S. Please sign your comments, thank you.--Downtownstar 20:29, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Coincidentally, I just happened to add the Ella reference (under Stardom), which cites Wikiquote. This is a well-known citation and should be non-controversial. If it's removed, I think we should call it vandalism. J M Rice 03:04, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation Tag Removed

I removed the citation tag because I don't see the article to be in dire need of citations. Wikipedia policy is that citations are needed for controversial assertions. I didn't notice anything egregious in that respect. I suggest that, if others think citations are needed, it would be better, in accordance with Wikipedia guidelines, to use specific ^{[citation needed]} tags inside the article. Frankly, I think this article is ready for at least GA status. — J M Rice 03:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Last Will and Testament of Marilyn Monroe

We wish to advise everyone that we (the Living Trust Network) have a copy of Marilyn Monroe's Last Will and Testament posted on our website, which we believe is of interest to anyone seeking information about the life of Marilyn Monroe. We have also discussed our desire to post a link to Marilyn Monroe's Last Will and Testament with Wikipedia administrators [See User talk:Livingtrust], either under "references" or "external links." Last Will and Testament of Marilyn Monroe. Wikipedia does not object to the link but has requested that we not put the link up ourselves since we are a commercial website. Instead, it has requested that we make it known that the Last Will and Testament is available, and anyone who wishes to add the link to the "reference" section or the "external links" section may do so. So, we solicite your help in adding the link set forth above. Thanks. Livingtrust 03:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the link, because it was added by an anonymous IP adding multiple links to your site. You need to have a consensus here instead. Wmahan . 05:26, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First nude scene by a major actress?

I'm sure that can't be true. What about Hedy Lamarr in Ecstasy? This seems doubtful even if it is restricted to American films and actresses, though I don't have an example. Clarityfiend 21:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Clarity, you're correct. Hedy Lamarr appeared nude in that film a few decades before Marilyn appeared in the buff. 67.10.133.121 22:12, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

You are both ignoring the fact that Hedy Lamarr was not a major star at the time she appeared nude. Her appearance only came to light after she made it big - much as Monroe's nude calendar would be revived in 1953. The statement is correct - Monroe would have been the first major American star with a nude scene.

[edit] Marilyn Monroe's dress size

Sigh, again, this article is perpetuating an inaccuracy. Why do people go back and forth on this issue? Today, a size 5 dress is not the same as it was in Marilyn's time. A five would be considered a medium, then, but would be considered a small size today: the actual measurements went up. According to Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.htm), which tracked down her measurements, Marilyn might have been a size 12, perhaps a size 10 by today's markers. They also point out, as this article does not, that Marilyn's weight cycled due to factors such as pregnancy, weight gain and loss. Leaving the "5" in without noting that sizes have gotten larger while the numbers have stayed the same is inaccurate. 67.10.133.121 22:12, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "prior-made teeth cosmetic surgery"

There may be some unnecessary obfuscation in the sentence that reads "Hyde also arranged for her to have plastic surgery on her nose and chin, adding that to prior-made teeth cosmetic surgery." Would it be better to revise the latter bit to something like, "...her nose and chin. (Monroe had undergone cosmetic dentistry at a prior time.)"? Robert K S 19:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Info on Monroe's Death?

I came across this story quite accidentally. I've heard of this outlet but I can't judge it's credibility because I don't know much about it.

Obviously, one story from an unproven (at least to me) outlet wouldn't seem to merit an edit of the article. However, the information shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, esp since it quotes the man who was LA's DA at the time of her death as calling for a re-opening of the investigation.

URL: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52493

I believe the following excerpt can be used under the Fair Use doctrine of US law...

WND Exclusive BLONDE BOMBSHELL Stunning new revelations: Marilyn Monroe murdered June DiMaggio breaks long silence on details surrounding mysterious death of her friend Posted: October 18, 2006 1:00 a.m. Eastern

Marilyn Monroe was talking on the telephone to Louise DiMaggio when she was murdered and was able to utter the name of her attacker before her death, according to a new book by DiMaggio's niece and Monroe confidante June DiMaggio.

In "Marilyn, Joe & Me," 44 years after the Hollywood superstar's mysterious death, which was ruled a suicide, June DiMaggio, friend of Marilyn and niece of New York Yankee Hall of Famer Joe DiMaggio, she discloses that her mother was speaking long distance with Marilyn Monroe when the actress was killed. DiMaggio says her mother overheard Monroe blurt out the name or names of her killer [sic] as they stormed into her bedroom.

_______________________________________

[edit] June DiMaggio is not who she claims she is!

June "DiMaggio" never existed--her real name is June E. Elpine ... PR Inside (Pressemitteilung) - Wien,Austria Last year this woman came out of nowhere and claimed to have been Marilyn Monroe's friend for eleven years. Nobody had ever heard ...

http://www.pr-inside.com/june-dimaggio-never-existed-her-real-name-is-june-e-elpine-she-never-met-marilyn-monroe-claims-r25776.htm

Should more evidence come forth, especially from more generally accepted sources (e.g. the AP or a reputable historian), then a re-write would have to be considered.

Until then I leave this for the perusal of the interested.

PainMan 14:21, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Opening Picture

Come on you can do better. A picture of a bug-eyed Marilyn on the phone is not the right picture to start off the Wiki article on this cultural icon. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lester113 (talk • contribs) 01:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Well, it has to be a public domain image, so that immediately limits the candidates. Have a look at Wikipedia's collection of Marilyn Monroe public domain images and see what we currently have to work with. If you see anything you like then go ahead and change it, but it's a pretty sorry collection. Don't forget that you are a Wikipedia editor yourself, so you are a part of the "you" who "can do better". If you can find a really good public domain image to use, it would be welcome. Rossrs 10:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

So let me see if I understand this. I have the power to...."edit"... Wikipedia articles???? Well gosh darn I feel like like Newton under the apple tree!!

Call me crazy but I just thought it might be some what presumptuous of me to start editing an article that has had some dedicated editors that have devoted some real time to this article. I just want to make this article better. But thank you for telling me I am a Wikipedia editor & I have the power to, "do better" all by my self.

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