Talk:Marid

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I do not believe that this article accurately depicts the Islamic understanding of the Jinn and Marid. While Marid is a word used in association with jinn, the four element scheme seems foreigh to Islamic thought. Jinn and Marid are not distinguished in any systematic way in the Arabic literature I have read. I suspect the source of this information is fantasy literature or fantasy game rules rather than Islamic folklore.

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[edit] Marid in the Qur'an?

I agree with the person who wrote the comment below, "marid" in the quoted Ayah means rebellious, the word comes from the three letter root "marada" - I can't transcribe it into Latin letters without vowels unfortunately. It does not refer to a type of jinn, and I'm not only trusting my knowledge of Arabic on this, I checked the meaning of the word "marid" in a Qur'an that includes explanations to some terms and words (one of which happened to be that same "marid"), this book was compiled by Mohammed Hasan El Himsy. You can look it up, it's fairly easy to find. I think you should reconsider the first line in your article, it's a bit misleading

[edit] re Jinn an Islam

even though Jinn are mentioned in the Qur'an, their powers and so on aren't mentioned. There are verses that state that either Jinn, demons or devils used to go near the heavens to spy on God and his intentions and were "rewarded" punished by comets. Al-Jinn(72:8) ‘And we have sought to reach the heaven; but found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires.(comets) 9. ‘And verily, we used to sit there in stations, to (steal) a hearing, but any who listens now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush.

Al-Hijr (15:18): Except him (devil) who steals the hearing then he is pursued by a clear flaming fire. As-Saaffat (37:10): Except such as snatch away something by stealing, and they are pursued by a flaming fire of piercing brightness.

Marid is mentioned in Sûrat As-Saaffat (37:7)

" And to guard against every rebellious devil." Where Marid usually in arabic, (I'm fluent in Arabic) means rebellious.

I can cite various sources about the Occoult and Muslim mythology, problem is that when it comes to Occoult books they're usually 50 pages of spells and rituals, many of the ones I read are in Arabic and other foreign lanuages.(burn this kind of inscence on a certain date and time, summon....... or the king of the tribe, his name is:...., say I command you in the name of:... Usually a higher spirit (the king of the tribe or an Angel) to do such and such), and as common in mythology, it's usually MYTH, and accounts differ. Or according to some, the sorcer ommits or changes key elements to guard his secrets. I'm quite comfortable with the edits and would welcome any debate. --The Brain 22:09, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] sorcery books?

What are these so-called "sorcery books"? Can a more specific reference be given?

The only place where I've heard that genies come in four types that correspond to the four classical elements is in the Dungeons & Dragons game. According to Islam, aren't they all made of smokeless fire?

The books I'm talking about aree in Arabic and I reaad them in Cairo, Egypt when I grew up magic and sorceeery books are not really "reference" But that's what thre books say (usually a cheap $3 book you buy)أاغزالى is a prolific author
Can I at least have a title of one of these books? I'm somewhat familiar with Al-Ghazali, but I've not come across this. Quite honestly, the lack of willingness to say anything makes me think it's made up.
I read this stuff when I was 14, 20 yras ago, when i was into magic, so we agree that Al-Ghazali wrote magic books (Also it might be a different Al-Ghazali) , honestly I remember that they come in four kinds and Lived in water, earth, air and fire... by name I don't remember. Not trying to escape questoning here.--The Brain 11:02, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
Then it doesn't have a place on wikipedia

In "The Key of Solomon", Solomon refers to spirits he is attempting to conjure hiding in water, earth, air and fire. Granted this work was written by a european in all probability, but it does have roots to hebrew and arab sources.

one should diferenciate between what a guy like him and what the qur'an says, you can have a subtitle that says Marid according to sorcery books I no longer remember which is which, but see Jinn in the occult, that's true from sorcery books I'vee read--The Brain 22:14, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I wonder if these elemental references to ifrit and marid in these arabic sorcery/occult books are actually mistranslations/associations of fire and water elementals called salamanders and undines. -- Omokage 18:26, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] is marid a jinn?

"Marid" is Arabic for "giant", it's not a type of jinn. Marid is only a type of genie in certain fantasy games (as has been mentioned).

[edit] Article Change Proposal

I propose that the name of this article be changed to "Marid (Dungeons & Dragons)" as it seems to be based mostly on the portrayal of the marid from that game. MasterGrazzt 23:27, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Excellent idea. I think this is exactly what should be done.

[edit] Marid

First of all I'm sorry for my bad englih, because i'm foreign people. If we talk about djinn, our references should be from Al-Qur'an and hadist. That's true that their powers is not mentioned in Qur'an but it's mention on hadits. One of the hadits told that Ifrit ever tried to attack prophet Muhammad using firebolt it happen at Isra' Mi'raj.

Another hadits told as that the djinn could represent their body and can see by human as animal forms. Sometimes they become snake, in hadits from Al-Bukhari one the type of this djinn killed people, when that people came back from Khandaq war to his house. Sometimes they become dog, every djinn could transform theirself into a dog, include satan. To distinguish another djinn transformation with satan just see the color of the dog. Satan always become a pure black dog. That also mentioned on hadits but I forget the hadits from who....

Also in Al-Bukhari hadits it's mentioned that the djinn generally divided into three types. First is the djinn who live in the earth, they almost similar with human, second the djinn on his entire lifetime just float between the earth and the sky, and last is the winged-djinn that live on the sky. Satan is also one of the djinn race, and this race then divided again into many races include Ifrit, Izib and much more races. Hadits also told that they have magical power, they could use that for disturbing human life and even to kill human beings.

Ibnu Qoyyim Al-Jauziyah a great Moslem scholar in one of his book called this power as ain wal jinny. They also could bring people to the their realm and dimension, also in hadits prophet Muhammad ever disappear, when he come back tomorrow he told to his follower that he went to djinn world, those djinn brought him. They are from Basrah(Iraq), what a great power because on that time prophet Muhammad in Madinah(Saudi Arabia), very long distance. Those djinn interested on Islam that's the reason why they bring him to their dimension. After prophet Muhammad taught those djinn about Islam, they returned him home.

That hadits also told that djinn have a social institution like human-beings, an intelligent creature with magical power. They also could eat in the same way of human, I mean they eat human food. But if they touch for example the bone of a cow, that bone could become meal again then they eat it, may be beacuse they have magical power so they can do that.


Remember one thing the djinn could tranform their body into every kind and in many hadits told sometimes they transform himself into human. Sometimes they become lizzard, cats, dogs, snake etc. And if they like one of the kind of this body may be they don't want to change it again. That's true their basic elemental power is fire but consider their magic power, there's a possibility that they change their element into another one such as water, earth, wind etc eventhough it just my assumption.

Once again I'm sorry for my incompleteness, i will read that book again and complete the references.

The ancestor of djinn is called Jan, he created from the burning flame of the hell....

First of all, you don't really talk about marids, and second, why are the Quran and hadith the only acceptable references? That's biased.
I'd add the relevant stories of 1001 Nights but what else would you propose to use? As beings with their origins firmly in the Arab and Persian lands, I don't know what you'd use other than sources from those areas. It's not bias, except in favor of correctness. 71.210.248.144 20:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC) Kevin L. Nault

[edit] Djinni

I'm no expert, but I've seen webpages around that suggest there are several traditional classes of djinn in Arabian literature. They are Marid, Afrit, Djann, Ghul, and Shaitan. I understood they were made from fire, smoke and dust. Angels, on the other hand, were made from air and light, and humans were made from earth and water. It would be interesting to see a wiki page about those ideas.

In Europe, a shaitan is another name for a dust devil or a waterspout.

Perhaps also it would be wise to distinguish between Arabian tradition and Islamic tradition in this; I don't think they necessarily agree, any more than European tradition and Christian tradition agree on various matters.

I agree with the previous writer who argued for the existing Marid page to be changed to "Marid (Dungeons & Dragons)".

Thanks. Also, please sign your comments, even if you don't have an account, by putting four tildes (this symbol ~) afterwards. I think we should officially vote on the move proposal. MasterGrazzt 15:50, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
Mohamed ElGhazaly I think wrote books on this topic. Maybe another Ghazaly. But I read books by him.

--The Brain 03:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, speaking as someone who does lots of game writing and folklore research, I think from the sound of things what we have going here is a conflation due to a false cognate. In Latinate roots, "mar" means "ocean," and is still the same word in Spanish. In English, it's "mer" which is where we get "mermaid" and so forth. I'm guessing that someone wanted a water djinn and so looked at the mythology and picked the word that sounded closest. Plus there's the whole story of "The Fisherman and the Djinni" where it's understandable that someone might think a spirit from an urn from the bottom of the ocean might be something other than a fire spirit.

Of course, just because it's apparently fakelore doesn't make it less believable than the actual folklore, much of which is patently silly. I just read a fatwa which seriously said that djinn lived in the bathroom and were offended by seeing naked people (which makes the bathroom a doubly stupid place to live), and my serious anthropological book of folklore mentions that it was once a common curse in Morocco to say "May you wash you face with the urine of Jewish djinn." Which makes you wonder why there are no stories which start "Shalom! I am the Rabbi of the Lamp!"

–Well, the jinns are of many types. Both Muslism and non muslims. Many appear to humans and there are many reasons why it happens. My family memebers who were Quranic scholars were visited by Jinns to ask him if he could teach his jinn kids, the Qira (recitation) of the Noble Quran. They (muslim) also visit mosques. The evil/non muslims one appear to humans in strange form like coming into a human form but about 11 feet tall or by lengthing their arms and legs to incredible length to scare humans, while the muslims ones dont scare humans deliberatley. They also love to eat sweet stuff as well bones, rice etc. Poeple in certain islamic countires also catch them to do certain from them, like ask help from them to knwo the future of a person etc. The spells could be in many languages Arabic, Hebrew etc and it involves seclusion of a person to call the jinns to actually capture them.—rezza172.141.68.135 22:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

-Witches believe the Djinn is an elemental king presiding over the Watchtower of the South, which is the element of fire. Salamanders are said to be the elemental beings who serve the Djinn. The Archangel of this element is Michael. Others believe the Djinn presides over the element of air which is the Watchtower of the East. Where I am going with this is I think there is an incorporation of different belief systems, lores, myths and legends from different eras...Persian, Arabic, Celtic, Hebrew, Pagan, Islamic so acertaining true origins of the myth is difficult.

-A Warlock, 11/29/06

[edit] Marid means Rebellious

DEAR SIR/ MADAM,

The word "Marid" Comes from Arabic word "Maradah", means rebellious In Sura As-Saaffat:7 (37:7): And to guard against every rebellious (Marid) devil.


Cheers and Regard

Sincerely

Human Not Jinn Brother16:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)16:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)81.153.31.58 16:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

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