Talk:Marc Emery

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Contents 1 Seeds and Bibles 2 Emery is a Convicted Felon 3 2 pics 4 Cannabis Culture Cult?! 5 "seeds— seedlings in prohibition logic" too anti-legalisation 6 Emery and the NDP 7 Bias 8 something you might want to include

[edit] Seeds and Bibles

Here is a story about bibles in China, a crime under Chinese law punishable by death, yet at times getting some culprits a slap on the wrist. Imagine if an American minister were smuggling illegal bibles into China (while remaining in the US), and the Chinese goverment were to seek his extradition to China to face criminal charges, and a lengthy sentence (or death) in a Chinese prison. Imagine a Canadian minister in the same position (in Canada).

Imagine how hysterical the request would seem to ordinary Westerners. Now, try to imagine either the Canadian or the US goverment arresting the minister and seriously considering the request.

-SM 14:06, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Marc Emery is no minister. He has fueled a lavish lifestyle from the proceeds of his sales to Americans. He has interfered with every single attempt at legalizing cannabis in Canada, hoping to put off the inevitable monetary loss once prohibition ends. By "helping" activists in Canada he contends to lead everyone and everthing cannabis related. Emery has often protected his business interests by threatening those who oppose him with exposure to the police authorities. That has earned him the nickname "Marc the Narc" amongst earnest activists.

Imagine how hysterical it seems for him to claim protection from prosecution because he paid taxes.

-Alien Threat 11:42, 16 October 2005

I'd like to see well-sourced comment on either his alledged lavish lifestyle (and why it might be relevant), or evidence of any actual detrimental effect he has had on the legalisation movement, or his secret desire to maintain a lock on the cannabis economy (which last assertion seems to bear no understanding of the history of the Netherlands). So far, it has mostly been anonymous, unsourced slander. I commend you on actually signing in before weighing in, now please show me some evidence.

But that would be a different discussion, irrelevant to my point. The above comment was intended to draw attention parallel, to the hysterical reaction by one country (US or China) to what it perceives as a threat, but more reasonable people- Canadians- might see as either a minor matter or a bold stand for an important truth, as well as the implicit hypocrisy of the US not respecting China's perception of its own interests, and yet prevailing upon Canada to join in its own hysteria.

-SM 18:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

PS Since when does a lavish lifestyle disqualify one as a high-profile minister, anyway?

Or indeed as a cannabis activist. It is unfortunate IMO that legitimate businessmen/women are unable to make healthy profits from the legal cultivation and sale of good quality cannabis becauser the law demands that only criminals engage in this trade. Emery sells seeds not cannabis, and it is hard to see how someone like him could other than gain from the legalisation of this product, SqueakBox 19:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Supporters of Marc Emery frequently try to find out who his opponents are then attempt to silence them. I personally don't give a damn about that, as far as I'm concerned M.E is a giant fraud and he knows it. He also knows me very well. You are children playing a grown-ups game, careful you don't get bruised. But soon this idiot will be in the hands of the americans...need I say more? As for my comments on the character of Mr.Emery you only need to search his comments to find the answer to the questions you pretend to be interested in. By lavish I mean being blitzed on narcotics, not wearing a suit. With seeds at $1 for a hundred( if legalized) Mr.Emery stood to lose everything...as if you didn't aleadry know that.

Alien Threat

Again, the Netherlands experience does not bear you out as to his business prospects- who better poised after prohibition than Marc to start the Vancouver equivalent of The Buldog, if he wanted (not Marc's style, really). Seed banks and coffehouses flourish in the Netherlands. It is about quality and volume. Producing seeds is low-cost, the number (10, 100, whatever) is only the quantity useful to one grower. The price will not change. Canada's seed banks already compete with the Netherlands.

Your contention that he has played the narcs against business rivals is most grave. You should either substantiate it, or withdraw it. As for the questions you raise, I pretend to be interested out of politeness, until you can substantiate them. There is much anonymous gossip trying to make it's way into the article. Again, I commend you for discussing here. Now, I'd like to see some proof.

Finally, I don't care about his private life, nor do I care about his non-cannabis views. I am supporting him, not canonizing him. I care that he has taken a unique public position, at no small cost to himself, so that someday we may be free of the broad evil that is prohibition. On that day, who would not owe him a debt of gratitude?

-SM 05:20, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

The idea that herb will be legalised and then everyone will be growing there own isn't credible. Who grows their own tobacco or coffee? Brews their own beer? etc. Almost nobody, any more than people make their own bread. I have read that if it were legalised in the UK ex dealers would be prohibited from participating in the market. This wouldn't apply to Emery as he has only been selling the seeds. Peter Tosh got it right. Legalise it and I will advertise it. There is a potential massive legal business in cultivating and marketing cannabis that would lead to legal profits (infinitely better than illegal ones!) so his advocacy of legalising marijuana would only be illogical were he to be personally barred from partaking in a legalised business. Otherwise he could only gain. The criminals who do fear losing their profits (those scared to do a hard day's work in order to make a decent profit) do not call for it to be legalised, they are too busy (in the UK at least) mixing good hash with tar, henna and other dubious substances, and have no desire to see cannabis legalised. Emery, as an advocate, is clearly not in this class. We don't know what he or any famous person is like as a person without a level of personal experience not relevant to an encyclopedia, but what you are saying about Emery's views on marijuana is not credible, and would only be so in a situation where he was personally barred or if legalisation meant a state monopoly (not credible in the developed 1st world). SqueakBox 15:59, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I have lived in Amsterdam for 10 years. cannabis is illegal, especially in the places where people buy the seeds for cultivation. Legal seeds are available in Holland for let's say tomatos. They are expensive which pisses off the farmers, but you still get a couple of hundred for under 10 guilders(now the €). The bulldog does not sell seeds, it sells pot and booze. Pot bars would work on par with bars and pay taxes as well. It is a different business, and can prosper with or without prohibition.

Emery says he never sold pot. It's a mute issue. There are many individuals in Vancouver who have already operated Pot Bars for years, I am one of them. So far I have had 3 such locations, which are known, a few more they have no idea of. Emery has sought to take advantage of the sort term gains and has gotten himself screwed, he should of remebered he lives in a house of glass before he started throwing stones at the devil! As for links to the information, you're the scholar, look them up or stop pretending they don't exist. If you persist in mouthing about it I will spend a few hours getting them together and posting them here, but I'm an old man now, you can do the running around.if If you really can't find them at mapinc.org and cc forum search function I'll send them in gladly.

Also how can you say you don't care about his non-cannabis views when this is an encyclopedia and examines every aspect of the subject exhaustively? This site is hardcore public freedom of informed speech , not cannabis culture...as Mr.Emery himself likes to say " you don't pay for this site, I do and I also do what I please". Hmm! Maybe I'll post the links on the main page, maybe the list of quotes where he threatens publicly and in the most vicious way. Cotler was only one of his many targets over the years. He just didin't expect all the publicity( and scrutiny- small dead animals blog-) over an arrest he didn't know was coming. Now the shit has hit the fan. A number of parady sites haved opened recently such as Cannabis Culture Cult at blogger

Alien Threat

Ten years in A'dam, I am most envious. So, are you now in A'dam, or V'dam? I am well aware of what the Bulldog is, I cited it not a seedbank, but only as a very commercial cannabiz play (which would suffer under enforced prohibition, as would the city, as you know). I don't care about his non-cannabis views only insofar as I support him in his current situation. As an editor of an article on Emery, I contextualise them as one would for any biographical subject, according to the biographical drivers motivating the article.

Tomatoes are not a good analogy here, as to the price of seeds. The care that has gone into the breeding of cannabis varieties will continue to reflected in the price, regardless of prohibition. It is not so much "ten seeds", as it is a certified, viable copy of a quality genome for use by one grower. The big issue, I think, is whether one enforces copyrights (or protects in the public domain), what is fair use of a seed (make crosses, or inbreed for more seeds and sell them). Here we drift towards Monsanto territory, be very afraid. However, a three month grow is too big a risk for dubious seed. Grower confidence in reputations made during prohibition will continue as brand equity into legalisation.

As for your allegations, it is to you to do the research- when you hit the edit button on an article, you are a scholar too, with the responsibilities to objective truth that come with it. If you like, please post the links here on the talk page, and we'll discuss how it should shape the article. I ask this not to be difficult, nor out of disinterest, but because that it is how Wiki works. Alternatively, if you'd like to gossip, rant, opine, jeer and comment, you're welcome to do it here— God knows it's therapeutic sometimes.

-SM 00:34, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Re UK baring past dealers from legal sales, so petty, they just don't get it! -SM

We know where Alien threat is because he hasn't opened an account and so his IP address is in the history. Link is http://cannabisculturecult.blogspot.com/, SqueakBox 01:17, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes I will indeed post the links! I never say anything I can't prove. And for the predictable squeakbox, I have a changing IP as if it should make any difference anyway? Also if it was my blog I would have said so. You should check out the MLF marijuana liberation front blog, that one is mine.

Alien Threat

[edit] Emery is a Convicted Felon

Pro-marijuana advocates need to realize one thing - if you attempt to change the law by violating the law, then you have broken the law, which means that you are subject to its penalties. Using the proceeds of the illicit sale of drugs (marijuana is defined as all the parts of the marijuana plant including its seeds per Title 21 of the United States Code) to finance a political campaign is also illegal. Marc Emery has admitted breaking Canadian and U.S. drug laws for the last eleven years and openly boasted to everybody including the media about doing so. Now that he is indicted in the U.S. and is exposed to prosecution and strict penalties there via extradition, he pleads for help. Canadian law has become so liberalized that it is, in fact, a farce and criminals like Emery have fully taken advantage of it. Emery already has several trafficking convictions in Canada for similar marijuana seed offenses, but most of those convictions resulted in a night or two in jail and obviously had no impact on Emery's continued illicit operations. The U.S., after eleven long years, decided to take action against this major narcotics violator and the indictment was the result of the DEA investigation. In case you're not aware, the U.S. is a democracy. It's citizens elect its legislators, and it is they who enact U.S. law in conjunction with the Executive branch. Marc Emery and other pro-marijuana advocates need to respect U.S. law or suffer the consequences. Let Emery be tried in the U.S. and let justice be served... User:Lennyzelig 10:48, February 14, 2006

Yep, it is illegal and yep, he is breaking the law. However, whether this is immoral is a different matter entirely. Haddock420 13:57, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

What exactly is your point? Who are you? Please (a) sign your name with ~~~~ (b) stick to writing and discussing writing an encyclopedia. This is not a foorum and we don't want your rather nasty, dreary views here unless they are in some specific way going to help the article. Of course the poor man asks for help, he is being persecuted by the US govvernment. The US has a reputation for treating non-US citizens in a manner that the rest of the world finds utterly contemptible. Your ideas on democracy should go into the Democracy talk page not here where people's individual ideas about what democracy is (IYO the majority oppressing the harmless minority is democracy) add no value to this article. Sure you can criticise Emery but we can criticise the US government too and with a lot more justification. You may think Canadian law is too liberal which just goes to show you are ranting and letting off steam. Please go and do it elsewhere, SqueakBox 13:38, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2 pics

We have the same pic twice. i cannot find more thanm 1 image at the top image:Marcemery.jpg|right|Marc Emery? Any ideas. otherwise it is a technmical issue that needs to be taken to the village pump, SqueakBox 15:59, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorted. Someone sneaked another image in at the bottom, SqueakBox 20:04, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cannabis Culture Cult?!

Feel free to post your point of view, I will be very shortly.

Alien Threat

We can't have blogs in the external links section. TYo be honest your blog mostly just told me who you (presumably?) are. Is your problem with cannabis? are you against it? SqueakBox 20:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Blogs serve a source for journalistic research and are regulary published, remember the "nazi-jew" remark! It all started from the small dead animals blog. Anyway what's your problem with allowing information? You seem very protective of your version of the truth?! My point all along is that your "opinions" will be challenged. The question is are you big enough or mature enough to handle it?

Alien Threat

[edit] "seeds— seedlings in prohibition logic" too anti-legalisation

I changed the wording in the article because it seemed unneccessarily anti-legalisation. revert back if anyone has a problem and post here. -matt

Perhaps you misread: that the feds would equate a mere seed in an envelope with a seedling plant shows how intent they are to exagerate cannabis activity. See also the linked table, wherein you find,

Under the 1994 Crime Act, the threshold for sentencing a death penalty in relation to marijuana is the involvement with the cultivation or distribution of 60,000 marijuana plants (or seedlings) or 60,000 kilograms of marijuana.

...or you would have found it, had I not broken my own link to the comment at the far end yesterday. =0

All fixed, =D

-SM 14:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

The DEA has offcially said they will not nor did they ever consider seeking the death penalty in marc emery's case.

that notion was started by marc's propagandist sycophants. here is a snippet from the dea site.

EMERY and co-defendants GREGORY KEITH WILLIAMS, 50, of Vancouver, BC and MICHELLE RAINEY-FENKAREK, 34, of Vancouver, BC are charged with Conspiracy to Distribute Marijuana, Conspiracy to Distribute Marijuana Seeds and Conspiracy to Engage in Money Laundering. The charges carry penalties of 10 years to life in prison.

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/states/newsrel/seattle072905.html

i edited the page to reflect facts, not inferences.

Hey guess what? the FACT is the he is eligible for the death penalty, that has nothing to do with inferences or anything to do with whether they will charge him or not, so dont try to be a smart-ass. -matt

[edit] Emery and the NDP

Actually, Emery did endorse the NDP in the last election (he had Layton on this television show and also explicitly encouraged an NDP vote). I read something in the media that he's supporting Svend Robinson in his campaign this election.

NDP Leader Jack Layton is calling for the full legalization of marijuana. He made the comments in an interview on the website Pot TV and they're causing a bit of a rift in his caucus. The party currently supports decriminalization...but stops short of calling for full legalization. That may soon change. Marijuana Party members are seeking NDP nominations in a number of federal ridings. And in a 20-minute gushing interview with Jack Layton, Marc Emery, the founder of Pot TV urged pot activists to support the NDP. We end the show with some highlights. CBC The Current November 2004

VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980) - NDP Vancouver Centre candidate Svend Robinson says he welcomes any support for his campaign - including that of BC Marijuana Party Leader Marc Emery.

Emery was granted permission by a judge to get involved with the federal election on one condition, that he didn't advocate the selling of pot seed.

However, Emery is clear he won't be running. Rather he'll be throwing his support behind NDP candidate Svend Robinson. In fact, he says, Robinson approached him for help with his campaign.

Robinson says any support is welcomed, "If Marc Emery chooses to get out there and bang on doors and phone constituents in Vancouver Centre in support of New Democrats and my candidacy, certainly he's free to do that."

Robinson says he'll do anything he can to prevent Emery from being extradited to the U-S to face prison time.

CKNW news item

• I stand corrected, in that case. CJCurrie 00:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

---

Timeshifter 23:26, 18 December 2005 (UTC): CC forum thread URLs can be greatly shortened. I changed this: http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=prince&Number=1185216&Main=1185216 to this: http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/showflat.php?Number=1185216

It links to the same forum thread. And the URL is easier to pass on in email, forums, etc. without wordwrapping to 2 lines. Which can often make a URL not work right.

[edit] Bias

This page seems very biased toward pro-marijuana usage. From the lack of sources pointing toward how Marc broke the law to the wording of the document itself (i.e., "'laundering' the profits"?), this article presents a wholly one-sided point of view. Yes, smoking pot is fun, but do some political research.

As was stated earlier (in a hypocritical manner), this is NOT a forum (this applies to BOTH sides of this discussion!). Research both sides of the argument and provide objective statements. If you're right, there's no need for cheap slander or opponent bashing. Be reasonable, provide for-and-against arguments, and let the reader decide. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.210.193.198 (talk • contribs) .

It doesn't appear biased to me as his problems with the US authorities have been fully discussed. The US claim a lot of non-United States people are breaking their laws but for us to then claim that he has broken US law without an extradition or trial having taken place would be an extreme pro-US POV that has no place in this article or this encyclopedia. The US gov activities have been described and have not been condemned, so what is the problem exactly? (please bring specific details to this page). Perhaps you would care to allude to the alleged hypocricy, keeping civil and avoiding engaging in personal attacks (which your allegations of hypocrisy , wrong IMO, are), SqueakBox 16:01, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

"us to then claim that he has broken US law without an extradition or trial "

marc emery himself does not dispute the charge of him sending cannabis seeds into the US in violation of its laws, he has freely admitted to it many times, the latest being in a 60 minutes segment. he is fighting the extradition, not the charge that he violated US law. lenny zelig

Okay, that can go in the article. Unfortunately we don't get Canadian tv here (though we get an abundance of US tv) so I didn't get to see the programme but I am sure it was a good source of information for the article. What we must not do is imply US law is either right or democratic (another way of saying it is right). This is an international encyclopedia and cannabis seds are not universally illegal, eg they are legal in the UK. I guess the moral, as with that of The Enron Three, is not to do business with the States. Of course if the US spook enough non-US people no-one will want to do any business with the country, with predictable consequences. I haven't reached that point myself, of course, or I would not be contributiong to this American-based encyclopedia, SqueakBox 14:02, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] something you might want to include

you should mention the letter by the head of the DEA which really show one of their main motivations for going after him, his financing of legalization.

Quote:

Karen Tandy, Adminitrator for the DEA, admits the truth

The US Drug Enforcement Administration admitted on the day of Marc Emery's arrest that his investigation and extradition were politically motivated, designed to target the Marijuana Legalization organization that Emery spearheaded and ran for over a decade in Canada.

Here is the original text of DEA Administrator Karen Tandy's statement released on July 29th, 2005:

Today's DEA arrest of Marc Scott Emery, publisher of Cannabis Culture Magazine, and the founder of a marijuana legalization group -- is a signficant blow not only to the marijuana trafficking trade in the U.S. and Canada, but also to the marijuana legalization movement.

His marijuana trade and propagandist marijuana magazine have generated nearly $5 million a year in profits that bolstered his trafficking efforts, but those have gone up in smoke today.

Emery and his organization had been designated as one of the Attorney General's most wanted international drug trafficking organizational targets -- one of only 46 in the world and the only one from Canada.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars of Emery's illicit profits are known to have been channeled to marijuana legalization groups active in the United States and Canda. Drug legalization lobbyists now have one less pot of money to rely on.

Here is a link to the actual image of the letter http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4685.html

Looks from this that he is more of a political prisoner than a big drug king pin.