Talk:Marathi language

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[edit] Ivory in exchange for Marathi Poems on palm leaves

The great Tamil poet Subramanya Bharathi populary known as Bharathiyar sang a Tamil song about trade in India. He said even Ivory from Salem in Tamilnadu can be given for Marathi poems on palm leaves, as those poems were simply great. It clearly shows how much the poet (he was a great poet in addition to be one of the first advocates on Independence of India from the British) appreciated Marathi poems. He also called Telugu as Sundara Telugu. People like Dinesh should learn to appreciate other languages too from this!

Sunil Kumar--68.197.128.134 21:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manual of Style

Mahitgar 04:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dinesh kannambadi we are not intrested in ur farce

Dear dinesh,This is not the place to sing abt how ur kannada is old or nice,keep that with urself.Dont tell us that abt ur language here.We are simply not intrested.Marathi is GREAT language and Konkani is dialect of Marathi.U or even Konkani can accept it or deny it,but the history and truth will remain same! Jai Maharashtra (mahawiki 14:52, 27 August 2006 (UTC))

Some Kannada fanatics like Dinesh like to degrade other languages to promote Kannada. I have seen this from Sameer Khan, Sarvagnya and others, in the Kannada page of Wikepedia, who seem to degrade Tamil and make Kannada equal to Tamil, although in reality it is much inferior as it has not been granted classical status. They bring arguments like Proto Dravidian while Wikepdia itself proclaims that the very word Dravidian is a Tamil word. Kannadigas pride is badly hurt after Tamil was declared classical, that too after an American, Dr.George Hart recommended it, inspite of so much opposition from the North Indian linguists. So far they were telling that only dead languages can be classical but now after Tamil was given the coveted status they are moving heaven and earth to get it for Kannada! Kannada doesnt even have its own word for "language", not to speak of its own word for "classical", then how can they dream to make Kannada classical?

Even after 50 years of freedom Indians cant praise other Indian languages. They dont even want to unveil great Tamil poet Thiruvalluvar's statue in Bangalore. They may even oppose a proposal to install Great Maratha King Chathrapathi Shivaji's statue in Bangalore!

Sunil Kumar--68.197.128.134 22:07, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

==Literature=- Please be adviced that inscriptions are not Literature. Anyone who thinks Marathi inscriptions are the same as Marathi literature does not know much about languages. The earliest copper plate inscription (8th century) and 981AD Sharavanabelagola inscription from Karnataka are not literature. Literature is written on paper or leaves (as was the case of the oldest spoken languages of India which are Tamil and Kannada). It takes a very long time for a language to mature from an inscriptional one to a literary one which is why one hears of early Marathi literature only after 1200AD and mature Marathi literature from 15th century. Konkani is much older then Marathi. Please refer to this issue in Dr. Jyothsna Kamat's Potpourri. Its a joke to refer to Konkani as a dialect of Marathi. Konkani is much older then Marathi. Please refer to this issue in Dr. Jyothsna Kamat's Potpourri. Its a joke to refer to Konkani as a dialect of Marathi.

whoever has written this seems to be not interested in contributing to wikipedia. Unsigned comments might be considered as vandalism and do not need clarification. Moreover, the comments do not make any sense. They are irrelevant to the article. Try to be logical, and don't make claims based on based on your POV.--Sandipani 01:32, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Konkani

Konkani is much older then Marathi. Please refer to this issue in Dr. Jyothsna Kamat's Potpourri. Its a joke to refer to Konkani as a dialect of Marathi. Dinesh Kannambadi

Isn't Konkani a separate language in its own right? It shouldn't be classified as a dialect of Marathi. Kartheeque 08:17, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

No, Konkani or Kokani doesn't have a unique script. Maharashtrian Ko(n)kani speakers write it in Devanagari, the Karnatakan speakers write it in Kannada and the people of Goa, typically Christians, write it in Roman alphabet. Goan way of writing konkani even has a Portuguese slant to it - like "sh" being written as "x" [Example: "Keshava" becomes "Quexova" in Goa]. Konkani is not even a single form of language/dialect accepted by all the speakers as such. In Goa alone you would get more than ten distinct varieties of the dialect. All these konkanis are sufficiently distinct to be called different dialects. The only debatable point could be whether Konkani is a dialect of Marathi. I for one tend to agree with this proposition, because I am a Marathi speaker but still do manage to understand Konkani for the most part.

Earlier, Konkani was considered as one of the dialects of Marathi. But, now it has been officially recognized as a separate language. utcursch 12:24, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)
Whether or not a language has its own script is generally not considered a criterion for whether it's a dialect of another language -- after all, English doesn't have its own script either; neither does Marathi. However, no one would deny that English and Marathi are separate languages rather than dialects of other languages. --Marnen Laibow-Koser (talk) 18:34, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
There is considerable debate about whether Konkani is a dialect of Marathi or a separate language in its own right. The debate is historical, with Marathiwadi (supporters of Marathi) and Konkaniwadi (supporter of Konkani) factions appearing among Goans and other historical Konkani speakers. The debate of the script used for Konkani is also quite old, with a historically strong Romanwadi faction. Konkani written in the Roman script uses Portuguese transliteration. However, this practice is not so widespread today, and is not recognised by the Goan state government. The debate has not really ended, and even the state government of Goa still recognises Marathi as an alternative official language (alongside Konkani). As such, I think it is justified for the article to mention that Konkani is at least considered a dialect of Konkani.--Kunal (talk) 17:58, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


Can any one site any reference where Konkani being considered as a Dialect of Marathi?? Mayur

You can find many, but here are two links

--Sandipani 01:39, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Define Dialect

  • Here at Google Define some definitions are made made available.The definition I prefer I have given down with double astrics,Please join in choosing yours[1]
    • regional form of a language. Over long periods of time, dialects can grow into distinct languages. Languages vary by geographical region, social class, educational level, and even individual speaker. The term dialect designates a definable regional variant: more loosely, it is often used for social and other variations as well. Theoretically, speakers of different dialects of the same language can understand each other, while speakers of different languages cannot..[2]

[edit] Define Konkani speaking areas

Not for proof but to understand what is going on in prticipant's mind of this debate here on en wiki, please do define which specific konkani speaking geographic areas he is reffering to and how much percentage they are reffering to pure lingustics and pure politics.

[edit] Broad Indian Periscope

About defining a Language as a language and a dialect as a dialect.Discuss:

  • Ammm...Isnt Konkani and Marathi so similar?A maharashtrian can understand Konkani and vice versa?Few Konkani intellectual are busy pronouncing as if Marathi is derived from Konkani and Marathi is itself a dialect of Konkani etc.which holds no grounds.Kamat's potpourri is completely pro-kannada so if ur using its citation beware.mahawiki 15:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Well I am not interested in time pass edit wars.I do not get away bye single side POVs. I will be putting up facts from original sources and reference for the sake of Marathi.

We are not in war with anybody Personaly I respect Konkani also equally ,If some one wants to hold a personal POV that Marathi is dialect of Antartica or Arctic still I will not mind .Truth speaks for it self.Marathi was in close affinity with several languages and dialects over past several centuries and shared linguistic resourses with all of them.I dont know how people reach to eroneous conclusions and market them, and(why market them because all the way you search google news and you will come to know political benefits of devide and rule). Mahitgar 09:48, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comprehension of above points

Mahitgar 14:35, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marathi for Windows XP

Marathi LIP for Windows XP is now available: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=mr&FamilyID=0db2e8f9-79c4-4625-a07a-0cc1b341be7c

[edit] Move 'Poets' under 'Marathi Authors'

Move 'Poets' under 'Marathi Authors'

Now, there is no section with title "Poets", so OK --Sandipani 02:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tanjore Marathi

There is no mention of the Tanjore Marathi. There are thousands of people in the Tamil Nadu who are ethnically Marathi but have comfortably assimilated into the Tamil culture. However, many of them retain Marathi as their mother tongue.

[edit] Transliteration

Some definitions (notably of the parts of speech) are written in Romanized Marathi. Is there any reason this should be so? Also, can we decide a standard transliteration format for use in this article? --Kunal (talk) 17:47, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I would like to urge everyont to transliterate all devanagari characters in the article. It is impossible to understand certain sections without being able to read the devanagari characters (for example, much of the grammar section)

[edit] Unicode support for Devanagari characters

The section 'Unicode support for Devanagari characters' needs images of the characters being discussed.

[edit] Maharashtra Mandals yet to be classified

The items under 'Maharashtra Mandals yet to be classified' need to be moved under appropriate sections and then the section be deleted.

Done by someone --Sandipani 02:25, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] bat (बॅट) vs. beT (बेट)

From the article -

"3. 'a' indicating a 'chandrakor' as in 'bat' (ba~t) does not get displayed, the one in 'ball' (bA~l) does get displayed. Marathi added 2 vowels, namely 'a~' and 'A~'. Hindi added only 'A~'."

What is meant here? That बॅट cannot be written?! :-)

Or that a word can not start with an ऍ (ऍक्सिडेन्ट)?

Please elaborate in the article and/or correct.

Thanks,

asnatu 06:12, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] mistakes in word origins

darwaaza (door) is not an Arabic word: it's probably Persian, but I'm not sure. and dawakhaana... the khaana is not Arabic either, though dawa can be seen to come from the word from medicine. Someone else with more knowledge please correct this.

--Drmaik 10:43, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Clarifications

I am currently working on this topic to make it more presentable. I will try to address all the issues displayed here. I have the following questions:

  • I think the list of authors and poets should be moved to Marathi Literature because I believe it would fit the contents there. I need confirmation on this.
  • I am not sure what these mandals are. Is it required to display every single mandal throughout the world? Nivus 12:08, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Deletions

I really saw no significance in the listings of mandals on the Marathi language page. There was also no use for the list of authors to be on this page, it may serve a better purpose in Marathi_literature. If you are going to add it back please give a specific reason in this talk page. Nivus|(talk)|(desk) 07:30, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I deleted some edits from the word origin section. There are enough words in the list to give an idea of the word origins from other languages. The content is quite large at the moment and it is unnecessary to continue adding more. Refining the content is always a better idea. Nivus|(talk)|(desk) 04:28, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marathi image for stub template

I just put together marathi literature stub template (see Batatyachi Chaal). I need a image for it. Any suggestions? - mskadu 00:01, 7 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Numbers

The definitions of numbers are either wrong or shifted. Hajaar should be 1,000, Lakh (Laksha) should be 100,000, Koti should 10,000,000. But, I don't remember the definitions for larger numbers. (So I didn't change it in the text).

[edit] Webpage for Marathi phrases

I hope this site will be useful to the visitors of Wikipedia-Marathi_language. http://www.languageshome.com/English-Marathi.htm

[edit] "K section"

This section has a few quirks to it for me, someone with no knowledge of the subject matter. First of all -- the sound of "ke" is "as in ketchup, came, cane". At least in my Midwest American English, "ketchup" is not pronounced "KAY-chup" but "KEH-chup" (I assume the sound for "ke" is like KAY as in "came" and "cane", but of course I'm not sure.) Also, does "kah" really not have an English equivalent? (Not "con" (KAHn) or perhaps "calm" (KAWm)?) If someone can help clarify these things that would be great. Pronunciations should try to incorporate as much of a worldwide English-speaking audience as possible, and an IPA guide might be nice too. Just a few suggestions. GrandmasterKAW ;-)

[edit] Help add input for Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic)

Help add input for Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic)--Dangerous-Boy 04:45, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English words used in Marathi

There are some english words listed in Marathi_language#Word_origins that are used in marathi, but there are marathi words for them (I've added them). We should use those words while speaking marathi rather than using english words.

Sushrut

[edit] Lots of cleanup

I went through about 80% of the article (I didn't get to the end) and cleaned up all that I could see on a first pass. I fixed some grammatical mistakes, took out a lot of irrelevant information (e.g. stuff about religious sects, how "close" the language is to Sanskrit, POV, etc.) and tried to clean up some tables and lists. The article still needs a lot more work, especially in terms of a real linguistic overview. I am a linguist but I am more familiar with eastern Indic languages so I don't know enough about Marathi to really add content. However, I will be checking periodically and if anyone adds on some interesting information, I'm willing to check that it is up to a high standard for linguistic analysis. --SameerKhan 23:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, I'm very interested in formalizing a consistent transliteration or Romanization of Marathi for this article, as has been done for Assamese, Bengali, etc.--SameerKhan 23:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IPA

It is horrible and a pity that till now the phonology part did not have transliteration in wikistandard International Phonetic Alphabet, and only in some casual romanization. Look at the article on Hindi, so much details it has. Cygnus_hansa 00:05, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

It's great that you added the IPA symbols. I'm about to add a phoneme inventory chart, and I'd love if you could help me with that too. Are you a speaker of Marathi? If so, that would make it a lot easier for me to ask which contrasts actually exist in Marathi and which are only preserved in the writing. --SameerKhan 00:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Though having lived in Mumbai for 4 years, unfortunately I know zot of Marathi. But I can easily tell you which Marathi sounds have become redundant in phonology.Cygnus_hansa 08:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I came to the Marathi language article through a link in the page Retroflex approximant, which says that Marathi has this sound denoted by the IPA alphabet [ɻ]. It was surprising for me since I thought it is present only in Tamil and Malayalam among Indian languages. A quick search in google showed me that there is a letter ऴ in Marathi which is supposed to represent this sound. But there is no mention of this in the article here. Is it no longer in use? sooraj 10:32, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes ळ exists in Marathi and it is very much in use.(eg. बेळगाव(Belgaum), तळे(lake) सरळ(straight) It is also used in Gujarati.Why did u ask it?Anything special about this sound to find mention in this article? Mahawiki 14:27, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm confused. I thought that Marathi ळ was a retroflex LATERAL approximant [ɭ], but sooraj is asking if it is a retroflex (non-lateral) approximant [ɻ], which is a different sound. Which is it? Is this ऴ with a dot a different sound? --SameerKhan 22:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I am a Marathi speaker with study in Marathi Grammer; Marathi Language has only one variation,that is ळ Where as I am given to understand Tamil is having multiple prononciations of ळ.

Marathi does not have any extra sound of ळ and if any one finds ळ with dot/nukta (i.e.ऴ ) any where it has to be a typographic error or mistake inherent in transiliterating editor or input software.I e have encountered this problem with some of the editors. I do not know what is exact IPA compatible for ळ.Marathi is likely to have hardly any of its own IPA scholors as of today. Any way you will find soon more on this in this article about Marathi and its relation with other language in more details with proper scholorly references,please come back soon to check up. Mahitgar 11:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Mahawiki, as Sameerkhan pointed out, I was asking about ऴ, not ळ. I was doubtful when I saw this letter in the Marathi alphabet in sites like this. And this letter has been used to denote the sound [ɻ] here. If this is not present in Marathi, probably we should remove the reference to Marathi from Retroflex approximant. - sooraj 07:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I dont know really the differnce between ऴ and ळ.Devnagari script has ळ and which is used in Marathi.I am not aware IPA sounds.But the ळ is used in Marathi, Tamil, Malayalam (prop in Telugu and Kannada too) and Gujarati. Marathi ळ is perhaps the counterpart of ള് ள் ళ్ ಳ.I am not sure. Mahawiki 07:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


Most of my research on Marathi phonetics has been on breathy voice, so I can't say this for sure, but I don't think there is a retroflex approximant [ɻ] (ऴ) in Marathi. Marathi does for sure have the retroflex lateral approximant [ɭ] (ळ). If this is true, sooraj, can you remove the reference you are talking about? --SameerKhan 08:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Done - sooraj 17:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dialects

The dialects section is getting way too long and distracts from the article. The information about each individual dialect can be put into another article ("Marathi dialects"?) or individual dialect articles ("X Marathi"?). Either way, it should not be included in the main article. --SameerKhan 18:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English words borrowed from Marathi

I have added this para.Please do not feel shy of it.If Persian,Arabian or english languages have enriched marathi.Reverse is also true.I am finding someone is deleting the list of marathi words borrowed in english and keeping the marathi words borrowed from english or other languages.This is not fair .If someone has got doubt about these words,please discuss here .I am open to all suggestions.Please remember all languages are interocnnected . kasar59.184.152.183 11:09, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

The words you mentioned didn't originate from Marathi. Most of them can clearly be traced back to their Celtic or Latin origins. Some of them can even be traced back to Proto-Indo-European, which of course is also the ancestor of Marathi. Those words never went the long way over Marathi. See Etymonline for the true etymologies of these words. — N-true 14:08, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
No one is against showing how words are borrowed from Marathi into other languages; the examples you gave, however, are simply not true. --SameerKhan 19:43, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English words borrowed from marathi

OK.Respecting your opinion,here I give a further list.Please note that here I am not promoting any language as such.But it is in the interest of developement of language.Please react and explain if it is false and how it is wrong.If I am wrong , I will accept.The reverse shall also be true.Now see the another list

  • Coconut( Since it is found in Konkan,kokanat means it is availble in Konkan)
  • ox(o x, x(ks)means culitvate the land)
  • lion(ioln,iol literally pronounced as Aayal is the mane of lion)
  • Aunty(Auntya)
  • sun( s un, un means sunlight)
  • Why(why)
  • Noah( noa eh) means his nav.

note-This marathi is spoken in rural pockets of which many urbanite Marathi may not be acquainted untill otherwise read or heard.

The list is unending.Specially note that Anglo-Saxon words are very much drawn from marathi.Please note one pecularity of english that words are pronounced differently from what it is written.So why this difference rose is a matter of research.

---HIstorically these words are borrowed or shared during travel of Manu .Secondly there was movement of Anglo-Saxons from German areas to England .Incidently Scythians ,another Indo-European people were residing in nearby area only.It is thought that certain Maratha clans of Maharashtra are these people.So we have to be quite open minded .This may throw more light on origin of words.please react. Kasar 13:30, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but once again these are simply not true. "ox", "sun", "why", are all native English words, going back to Proto-Indo-European. "Coconut" is a borrowing from southern European languages. "Aunt" and "lion" are old borrowings from French. "Noah" is a Biblical name, coming from Hebrew and Aramaic through Latin. All of these were definitely not borrowed from Marathi at all.
Of course, English and Marathi are both Indo-European languages, and thus both share some vocabulary. In fact, the native English word "sun" and the native Indic words for "sun" ("surya", "shurjo", "suraj", etc. depending on the language) are all related. They were not borrowed from one language to another; they simply all go back to the same root long before there were languages such as English, Marathi, or even Sanskrit. Many Indian languages have words that were borrowed by the English, but what you have offered are not examples of this contact. Trust me, I am open-minded about word origins, but the words you gave are hardly controversial in origin. Please check any English dictionary (such as the Oxford English Dictionary, or even Merriam-Webster) to find the proper etymologies of these words. --SameerKhan 22:16, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank You, Fellow Indians

First learn signing in wikipedia properly and them complain!.Ignore the comments by Sawai Raja,if u dont like it.They are going to stay here as representation of what Maharashtrians think.Turn a blind eye,if u dont like them.mahawiki 11:54, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I, a true Maratha, would like to thank my fellow Indians for their extraordinary bias that they show against the Marathi people in general and Marathas in particular. Thanks for calling us [{Shudra]]s, Ghatis, lower-class and vernacular. These abuses are thrown against us so unfairly. Every non-Marathi person looks down upon Marathi people as some downtrodden race. They come to our capital, Mumbai and we welcome them with open arms. They are good to us for sometime and then they stab us in the back, just as Marathi Brahmins have done to Marathas for so many years. They say "All Marathis are Ghatis". When we say that "Everyone is welcome in Mumbai, but respect the indigenious ethnic people", they show disrespect to us. When we say, "Mumbai Is Ours", they say "Mumbai aahe tumchi, Bhandi ghaasa aamchi". Marathi people are not given promotions, there are very few Marathi people in top positions in Corporate world and most of them are Brahmins. However, the most stunning prejudices (or should we call it discrimination) against Marathi speaking people is observed when they are denied buying flats/propeties in a Gujarati & Jain dominated buildings. They blatantly tell us "Since you are Marathi and non-vegetarian, you won't be allowed to buy flat in this building. People are vegetarian here !". Incidentally, only Marathis and Muslims have to bear the brunt of this. The plight of Muslims was highlighted by a leading tabloid a few days back. But what about the open discrimination going on against Marathis. No one is interested in taking up their case, because no one cares about Marathis. Whenever a Marathi person speaks up, he is called jingoistic. The English media is extravagantly biased against Marathi jingoism. However, when Bengali people take to the streets for Sourav Ganguly it is not jingoism, it's a fight for their rights. Political parties taking up the Marathi cause, like Shiv Sena are looked down upon and severely criticized. They are called uncivilized, communal, rioter and whatever else is there. I am not a supporter of Shiv Sena nor a Shiv Sainik, but I can see the bias against them. I have never supported Shiv Sena for embracing Hindutva. But under the pretext of attacking Hindutva/communal policies, the non-Marathi people attack Shiv Sena's fight for ethnic rights.

Whenever a disaster strikes any part of India, (examples - Gujarat earthquake, Gujarat riots, Andhra famine), funds pour from the high and the mighty & the rich and the famous of Mumbai. Processions are taken out, Events are organised, Films & documentaries are made, celebrities come out and speak for the people ! But when disater strikes for Vidharba's farmers, forget the funds, no one even wants to even talk about about it. For them it's a non-issue because the affected people are Marathis. When floods hit Mumbai last year (26/7), the media balked only about the affected people of Mumbai, nobody talked about those affected in the rest of Maharashtra. I know these people don't have a sense of belonging to Maharashtra. When we remind them that they are earnin their huge profits in Maharashtra, they say it's no big deal, India's a democracy and anyone can go anywhere.

Can you tell me what has happened to the Marathi culture of Mumbai ? When you say Mumbai, what picture comes to mind ? U.P. chatwallas of Juhu, Punjabi culture of Bollywood, businessmen from Gujarat, Blue collar men of South India, the common people projected as the Bihari taxiwalas, autowalas, Virani family of TVdom !!! Where do you find Marathis or Marathi influence ? I tell you - kaamwali bais, BMC sweepers, BEST drivers ? But they are never projected as common men, they are lower class extremely poor people. Also their population is miniscule compared to Bihari people. Which takes me to the topic of demographics. Demographics is a extremely important topic and has the power to wipe out a culture totally and within limits of legitimacy. One must take the examples of the [{America]]s esp. Mexico where the indigeneous Indian people were wiped out. Or take the example of Israel where the population of Jews increased due to aaliyah and the Jewish theocratic state became legitimate. Or take the example of Indonesia where demographics changed the nation. Mumbai which had a Marathi population at 80-85% now has only 29% Marathis and that too is a 2001 figure. The percentage of Marathi population is going down at an alarming rate, mainly due to immigrating Biharis, UPites, Gujaratis and others who come in truckloads to Mumbai. Marathi people could do well to understand that Mumbai is in their hands only till their population is significant. Once a particular ethnic group overtakes the Marathi population in Mumbai, I am afraid Mumbai is close to gone from Marathi hands. And this is happening ! It won't take long before Mumbai is cutoff from Maharashtra. And let me tell you every non-Marathi including Biharis, Gujaratis, South Indians, North Indian Muslims(this term I use only for Urdu-speaking Muslims), Rajputs, Bengalis, and others, want it to happen. The other day, I was reading a leading newsmagazine and there was a column by Rang de Basanti director Rakeysh Om Prakash Mehra on "How To Save Mumbai". He writes that Mumbai, in order to be saved from disasters should be severed(thats the word he used) from Maharashtra. He goes on to say that Mahrashtra leaders are too busy in other problems like farmers suicides in Vidharba to look after. This means that he is interested only in Mumbai but not in farmers suicides in Maharashtra. And why is he so concerned about Mumbai. Because Mumbai has a big population of his ethnic group.

Of course, there are many prejudices against Marathi people and yet they do nothing. That day, after the Rakhi Sawant-Mika Singh episode, there were reactions from different people. Shefali Zariwala, former item girl, says that "Rakhi must be lying, Mika cannot do anything like this because he is a true PUNJABI and all Punjabis are gentlemen." Yes, Shefali, I know you've married a Punjabi(Manmeet Gulzar), but does that make every Punjabi a truthful man ? And Marathi people can be liars ? Remember it is the soil of Maharashtra which made you ! This is only an instance of the thousands of prejudices which are being made against Marathi community.

Marathi culture is being suppressed and Marathi people don't know this. I can't understand how Marathi people can sit calmly. Doesn't your blood fill with rage at this discrimination against us in our own land ? And Marathas being the warriors and protectors of the Marathi community should lead the Marathis towards glory and justice. Although today there doesn't seem to be a Maratha leader who will take on these things, I know a Maratha will rise, just like Shivaji who came out of nowhere to build a Maratha Empire. In the history of this world, each time a particular community has been oppressed, it has woken up and avenged its oppression and ruled in glory.

--Sawai Raja 09:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear Sawai Raja,

I have read ur article from A to Z.I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU.Maharashtra is made as a scapegoat in the name of national integration.We are being oppressed in our own state..We have still not attained our dream of Sanyukta Maharashtra.I am sure,Truth alone truimphs.We shall get justice.Amen.

I am a bramhin but I will not feel offended with ur comments on bramhins as I am Maharashtrian first.Perhaps,its high time for us to stop casteism and unite to fight the enemies of Maharashtra..

Jai Maharashtra mahawiki

[edit] Vandalism on Marathi language page

Dear all,

I have reverted and identified vandalism which are intrested in proclaiming how 'Marathi' is less important than 'their' languages,how Marathi has borrowed words from their languages etc.They want to endorse their lamguages on this article.I just have got acquained with few non-Maharashtrian users which also had edited out few glimpses of Marathi's glorious past.They were also keen to say the Konkani,which is supposedly a dialect of Marathi,is even more older than Marathi and that Marathi(and Marathi's literature) is not too old.

Its an earnest request to all Marathi wikipedians who are well-informed about Marathi language and history to carefully examine the article and find out other instances of vandalism,if any and also add the needful,if these vandalists might have edited out any.

This is a warning to all Non-Maharashtrian vandalists who come here to market and endorse their languages here,to stop and dont bother to edit this article again.

Jai Maharashtra mahawiki 17:36, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I have not edited this article very much at all, but I want to remind everyone that no-one owns this article. The term "vandalism" does not apply to content or POV disputes, which this seems to be. It's worth pointing out that, for example, ananás is the word for pineapple in Portuguese. I don't see how this "diminishes" Marathi in any way; no natural language is "pure", so to speak, and word origins from other languages are mentioned in many other language articles. Grandmasterka 03:53, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I do know very well that there's Portuguese influence on Marathi language.I was not 'suggesting' 'Portuguese' or u by vandalism.Thats why I HAVE NOT edited out those Portuguese mentions.Plz read my plea again.The Marathi article needs to be checked for facts and any possible vandalism which might have added unnecessary things or removes facts.mahawiki 05:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I think usage of hoax template is justified if u carefully examine the talk page and my plea to recheck Marathi article.mahawiki 05:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please avoid politicising the languages on all sides

After going through the page history I have observed that some editors are same who are involved in bringing real life controversy POVs to city page Belgaum.This is unfortunate that they are coming to language pages without genuine intent. Language pages are need to be handled with expertise and scholarship.Please, all POV affected editors leave us(scholors) alone without plotically motivated POV conflicts. It wastes unnecessarily valuable time on our part.

Unicode and IPA s are very new still most advanced.So any langauge for that matter need not be newer or older then what it is.

I have included this page in my watch list.I am working on Marathi Grammer pages on Marathi Wikipedia . Marathis, Please first concentrate there in developing them well ,Indipendatly .It will help strenthen the case of nuetrality automatically.

[edit] planned changes to the article portions

  • Grammar==

Marathi grammar -*Delet:'is somewhat like that of'-shares simmilarities with other Indo-Aryan languages such as Sanskrit and Hindi .

[edit] contemporary grammer

Here it is important to note that the contemporary gramatical rules stated by Maharashtra Sahity Parishadand endorsed by Government of Maharashtra are supposed to get precedance in standard written Marathi.Also it would not be out of place to mention a book about 'Marathi Grammer' written by 'Mo.Ra.WaLimbe'is most circulated and widely reffered in educational institutions.

[edit] Sanskrit Influence

Traditions of Marathi Linguistics and above mentioned rules continue to give special status to 'Tatsam'(Without Change) words borrowed from Sanskrit Language.This special status expects the rules for 'Tatsam' words be followed as of Sanskrit Grammer.While this supports Marathi Langauge with a larger treasure of Sanskrit words to cope up with demands of new technical words whenever needed;maintains influence of Marathi

[edit] Different Features

That's not entirely true. Gujarati displays the same inclusive and exclusive "we" as well.

Shaival

  • Changes planned by Mahitgar 07:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] t

I am not too worried of vandalisers because every thing remains in history.Personally I find POV and neutrality hoax tags as needless policing. Mahitgar 19:07, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the hoax tag. This article may be factually incorrect, but under no circumstances can it be considered a hoax. I suggest that the user who placed the tag takes a look at the list of hoaxes to see what qualifies.Gamesmaster G-9 19:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

First of all,there is no need of mention of belgaum article here.Those were kannadi vanadalisers and we were resisting them.If u see the marathi:talk and history of the article Marathi,u shall understyand that few 'kannadi scholars' have added statements like Marathi is influenced by Kannada,Tamil blah blah.They were also contesting whether Konakani is dialect of Marathi and whther Marathi and its literarure is older or not.Those were vandalisers.Instead of lecturing us,dear scholars,i recommend the thorough verification of the article and find out possible vandalism and 'distorting of facts'.As a Maharashtrian,I cant think of vandalising Marathi article. mahawiki 06:49, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Dear Editors, thanks for removing hoax tag.Personally,I am in possession ofenough authentic resourses about most of Marathis aspects,My purpose is not of lecturing any one.

My personal way to go about is I am working on Marathi Wikipedia for same subject on priority.There I will put up articles for peer review first there after I will touch Marathi related artiicles on english wiki. Mahitgar 12:18, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of Nutrality Tag Discussion

  • We have updated the article about its antiquity with proper reference.

Besides we have updated status of Konkani langauge Vs Dilects view in balanced manner. We do not see any reason why this tag can not be removed now? Mahitgar 09:30, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

    • Thanks for ur contributions.I had tagged fearing possible vandalism/fabrication of facts from other lingual chauvinists.I hope u have checked for them thoroughly!I am removing the tags,but r u sure Marathi article is completely free from any vandalism?

mahawiki 15:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

    • Welcome mahawiki, At least now I have understood how the formatting would look without tags for the article.
  • While in their first phase clean up task force had cleared this article it is better policy to have that tag on talk page rather than on the page itself.Once finish my majior editing I will see to it that it gets cleaned of spelling mistakes and comes to wiki standard.
    • Please suggest and if possible add some relevant picks(May be of some non contrivential manuscript) wich are copy right free, I would wellcome such a contri to this article.
  • Once we are through we will get it peer reveiwed .ofcourse this may take some time because simeltaneously I am working on Marathi Wiki in majior way on the same subject.

Mahitgar 11:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

  • I have justed read Marathi article in Marathi vishwakosh.It is copyrighted but I am sure we can use the facts/researched material of it.I have not gone deep in hardcore lingual characteristics of Marathi(in that article).It also has details about manuscripts/inscriptions,so there shoudnt be any more problems now!mahawiki 13:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
    • It is very nice resourse for many facts.You can refer it to support a fact on Wiki just see that you are not copying any material as it is.

Please inform , copy right is in whose name and year of publication. Mahitgar 16:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Marathi Vishwakosh,(Khand 12) Publisher and copyrights-Maharashtra Rajya Vishwakosh Nirmiti Mandal,Mumbai (A Govt. of Maharashtra project) See: http://vishwakosh.org.in/ (The articles are not available online) mahawiki 16:40, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sahitya Sammelan

Marathi Sahitya Sammelans have been taking place since 18??.I just read about it in Marathi Vishwakosh.Although they might be regularly held from 19?? but they were held within gap of 2/3/4 years from 18??.I will bring the exact year tomorrow.mahawiki 14:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shivaji's Seal

  • Shivaji's inscription shown on the page is actually in Sanskrit and not in Marathi. It would be inaccurate to put the image there. The actual inscription is "Pratipachhandralekhaiva vardhishnurvishwavandita shahsuno shivasya esha mudra bhadraya rajate" Like the new moon ever growing and bowed to by all, the mudra (seal) of Shiva (Shivaji), son of Shah (Shahaji) shines upon.

Shaival

    • Ok Shaival,lets get consensus from other users.Plz create a Wiki a/c for urself.

mahawiki 05:35, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Is a consensus really required when we know the seal is not in Marathi but the caption still claims otherwise! Shaival 23:03, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

  • We can find more relevent section for the image but , preferably we shift it to article shivaji where that image has to be.Any way it is good job by Mahawiki

See if we can get images of Manuscripts,modi script,Dnyanesvar with dnyaneshwari,or a Mahanubhavpanth images would be apropriate,more on linguistic literary side preferable and if it is suitable for specific section in article the better.

Mahitgar 11:41, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok.I will try for those pics.mahawiki 13:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marathi signboard pic

I have uploaded a Marathi signboard pic.A simiular pic is used in Kannada article.Plz let me know if it is relavant to this article.mahawiki 05:35, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I pointed out earlier that Shivaji's seal is not in Marathi but in Sanskrit. I removed the seal but it was uploaded again. As someone pointed out a marathi manuscript image from any source could be uploaded. By putting up a Sanskrit seal, proclaiming it to be Marathi is misleading. It should be taken off since this is not Maharashtra history wiki but Marathi language wiki page.

Shaival 00:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marathi authors

Hi,

Can we add some info about Marathi authors? I've made a feeble attempt to do the same in the 20th century to present section, but I'm sure someone else can write it better. Thanks.

MaximvsDecimvs 15:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Main article Marathi literature

Presently I have avoided including Author Names since

  • There is a separate article Marathi literature for this purpose.Which can include detail list of Authors
  • Even before we include few mile stones we need to first improve article Marathi literature which is far behind and not comprehensive enough.
  • Else where Marathi Wikipedians are doing effort in agreeng for consensus on Mile stones of marathi Literature. Let that effort take some shape before we include any more names in Marathi Language article.

Mahitgar 15:30, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Alright. I've deleted the authors' list and put a link for Marathi literature in that para. MaximvsDecimvs 18:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] translators needed at Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Translation

Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Translation--D-Boy 19:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

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