Template talk:Mapit-US-streetscale

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[edit] Don't use these anymore!

The new version of the templates is at Template talk:geolinks-US-streetscale. RamBot has graciously switched over to geolinks, so the Mapit templates are now deprecated. I've already converted Mapit-US-countyscale into a redirect. I'll do the others too as long as that doesn't start breaking things and as time permits. Some of the really old templates (e.g. MQ-deg, MQ-dec, TZ-m, TS-urb) should probably be scrapped altogether. If I can remember how to VfD, otherwise someone else do it please?

Peer review Mapit-US-streetscale has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

I made these templates to provide linkouts to streetmaps, topo maps, and aerial photography, which I thought could be pretty useful in a number of articles. I just put an example use at Buena Vista Park (assuming no one unedits it). I'm not too much of a Templates stud though, so please feel free to help out with making things better if you have any ideas.

The format isn't so important, but I like the blue box because it attracts attention. If this is not policy-appropriate for external links let me know.

I've tried to make it as easy as possible to add these links. There's already a {{>mapquest}} template for entering text addresses. The latitude longitude approach is more compact and offers a different set of resources (those that take lat/long input).

The idea is for this to be a dynamic template, so that if the web resources change, the template can be wholly overhauled to give new sets of resources for the given long/lat.

[edit] Finding lat/long info

Here are some resources for figuring out the lat/long of the location you want:

  • USGS GNIS service is extremely extensive: almost any officially named place in the US is searchable. Provides coordinates in Degrees/Minutes/Seconds format. The easiest way to convert to decimal coordinates (if you don't want to do arithmetic yourself) is to choose the "Display feature in TopoZone" option. You can click around the map on the TopoZone page if you don't think it's centered quite right. Then in the sidebar of the TopoZone page change the "Coordinate Format" to "DD.DDD". The decimal coordinates are now displayed above the map.
  • GeoCode Eagle will give you coordinates for up to 25 U.S. addresses free.
  • TopoZone can give you coordinates for a number of U.S. place names free. From the USGS, so biased towards natural/national landmarks.
  • Epodunk will give you coordinates for a number of U.S. place names free. Seems to be biased towards East Coast, historical community sites. Good for cemeteries.
  • NASA World Wind has a limited database of U.S. and global placenames. Sorry, no street addresses. Press Ctrl-F, enter the official place name, click Search, you will probably find the place you're looking for. Click Go and press Ctrl-C to copy the decimal coordinates. Paste it into Wikipedia. Example: For Tucson International Airport → "worldwind://goto/world=Earth&lat=32.11611&lon=-110.94109&alt=24389"

Remember, North and East are positive, South and West negative.

[edit] See also

[edit] This is so cool!

I think this is a great idea. My only suggestion: don't put float right into it ---let's leave it inline, because it will look better. I've experimented with hoodscale, trying to use Wiki table markup (rather than HTML) -- hike395 06:00, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I like what you did with the table markup. Taking out float is okay with me, I mostly had it for consistency with other floating link boxes like Wikiquote and Wikisource, but those are semi-internal sources. I took out the float for the image since we don't need it with the table markup version; compacts things a little. --Chinasaur 06:06, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for your help; I changed the other Mapit templates to wiki table markup. --Chinasaur 06:11, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
This is really a neat idea. Is it possible (with those external web sites) to take D/M/S parameters, rather than decimal degrees? The reason why I ask is that it would be so cool to make a parameterized mountain infobox (see Wikipedia:WikiProject Mountains) that would both show the Lat/Long (currently in D/M/S format) and the map links. Right now, we would have to go through all of the mountain articles and convert D/M/S to decimal degrees, which is a daunting task.
The USGS GNIS server produces D/M/S locations, too. -- hike395 06:20, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Topozone takes D/M/S: http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?latd=39&latm=12&lats=42.42&lond=119&lonm=34&lons=02.13&datum=NAD83&u=6 -- hike395
It's non-obvious how to force TerraServer to eat D/M/S. :-(. Do you have any ideas? -- hike395
The MapQuest I did figure out; see Template:MQ-deg. Looks like you figured out Topoone. But I'm not sure about TerraServer; I'll look into it. I put instructions above though for easy ways for people to convert the D/M/S info as they find it. For a big project like converting all the mountain D/M/S the best solution might be to collect all the data and then just write a script to calculate it.
Looking at the description on the TerraServer WebService, it appears that the whole application is built from decimal style coordinates with no Services to convert from DMS, so I sort of doubt we're going to find a GET argument approach to this problem. Bummer, but I think the scripting conversion solution is still do-able. --Chinasaur 07:17, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Actually, a better solution is probably to create a new webpage that is simply a converter; you give it the DMS and it converts to decimal either server side (using PHP or something similar) or client side (using javascript). The webpage then forwards you automatically along to the terraserver page. This wouldn't be hard for me to write, but the problem is I don't think my school webserver will be cool with me shuttling wikipedia queries through, so we'd need someone to volunteer a server to run the converting php or javascript page. --Chinasaur 07:29, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It can be done with Javascript, so why not on a WP page (perhaps User:Chinasaur/dms2dec?  :-)  ). —msh210 22:20, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I believe wikipedia does not accept script tags in wiki markup, so we're shot in the foot on that. If I'm wrong about this please let me know! --Chinasaur 22:39, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Grr... :-(

Okay, so what's wrong with the aerial photo of Gracie Mansion? —msh210 22:20, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there's no photo at buildingscale resolution for those coordinates. I'll replace the template with the streetscale and it should work. This is something I'd like feedback on (see Template talk:Mapit-US-buildingscale). The options are either:
  1. Make all buildingscale templates link to larger-than-buildingscale b&w aerial photos, in which case we rely on the intelligence of the reader to zoom in/change the photo type if a better photo *is* available.
  2. Link to high res color photos that are only available in some cities, meaning that for cities without these datasets you'd have to rely on editors to use the streetscale template instead.
So far I know that high res color is available for SF and Chicago, but not NYC or Boston. I'm biased to SF, so I'd like to make the high res color part of the template so it can be used where available. --Chinasaur 22:36, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing GM. I've commented on the issue at Template talk:Mapit-US-buildingscale. —msh210 22:44, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Statue of Liberty

Added a link on the Statue of Liberty page. I noticed that the Aerial building-scale didn't work, so I just copied the template table and pasted it into the statue of liberty page, changing the URL to t=1 and s=10. If you know of a fix for this, please change the article to include the actual template, instead of a table as it does now. --[[User:Brian0918|brian0918 talk]] 04:15, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I also had to do the same thing with the Vehicle Assembly Building --[[User:Brian0918|brian0918 talk]] 05:22, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Nevermind, I just changed them to the streetscale template. --[[User:Brian0918|brian0918 talk]] 06:50, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
So I guess you saw the earlier discussion on the problem with building scale for NYC and Boston. I still intend to redo the templates when I get a chunk of time free (hopefully this weekend). That should provide a better fix for these problems. --Chinasaur 01:33, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] This is really neat! I love it!

I'm going to suggest to Ram-Man that he add these templates to every U.S. city that the Rambot maintains. And if somebody created template:Mapit-US-countyscale and template:Mapit-US-statescale, then Rambot could add those as well. --mav 22:11, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Alterations

I made a few changes to the template, mostly to make it more lightweight:

  1. I made it a box instead of just a list. This looks better, and emphasizes the related nature of the three links.
  2. I removed the of PAGENAME. It's redundant clutter (the reader should know where they are), and at any rate the article title might have unpleasantness like a disambiguator.
  3. I removed the credits for the maps (e.g., Mapquest); if the reader chooses to click on the link, they will very definitely be told where they are.

Let me know what you think. VeryVerily 14:57, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Didn't you see the original way that this template looked before Maveric149 changed it? According to him, because they are external links, they have to be presented in the form that he put them in before you put them back into a box. See the comments on his talk page. I'll revert for now but if it turns out I'm wrong, please switch it back. --[[User:Brian0918|brian0918 talk]] 15:31, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I noticed it was in some blue box before, which perhaps is reserved for Wikimedia projects. I see no reason why we can't use xlinks in a less assuming box. Mav can raise his concerns here; mine is that the box plain looks better, as it organizes the similar links together, and makes a recognizable form for them for all the pages they appear on, instead of being mixed in with the other xlinks in the unattractive bulleted list. It's also more compact. I have reverted; if I'm definitely wrong we can switch back. VeryVerily 23:51, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Sounds good. Do you think having the title of the box link to a list of the articles which contain the box would be a good idea? I'm not sure how this is done, but it could simply be a link to a search for "Mapit" with results set to 500 or something. --[[User:Brian0918|brian0918 talk]] 00:56, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
You could link it to Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Mapit-US-streetscale. But I wonder if linking like that would make sense to the casual reader. VeryVerily 01:37, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I've looked at a few of the articles where Ram-Bot used the Mapit-US-cityscale template. I think I prefer it the way Mav set it up --- right now, it looks a little strange as a blue box (IMO). For example, see Alta, Utah. I moved the box to align left, instead of right, which helps a little bit (it's closer to the other external links). --- hike395 21:51, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I definitely like your template more. We should use it, and just it, instead of many different ones. Nova77 05:22, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Problem with headers version

Here's a problem with including headers in templates: users can click the edit link for the header and be sent to the edit page for the template, which is probably not what they wanted and is really not a good idea. This is something that I feel should be addressed in MediaWiki, but I don't know the right place to point it out. For our own purposes, I will probably try to work around including header edit links in the Mapit (soon to be geolink) templates. If I can use direct html tags to replace them, I feel this is preferable to allowing people to go to the template edit page without knowing what they are doing.

Thoughts? --Chinasaur 06:49, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yikes! That does sound like a bug. Hopefully it wouldn't happen very often (would people want to edit these links?). Anyway, we could substitute the current font in HTML for the H3 markup. The sad thing is that these wouldn't show up in the ToC of the larger articles, which is a minor problem.
-- hike395 07:17, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I'm trying to go back to the box (with a little extra margin). Let's see how that works.-- hike395 07:53, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
For the purposes of adding the optional categories, I prefer not using a box. But I agree it looks better with a box. What's the current status of the discussion of whether or not to use a box?
There doesn't seem to be a consensus. Judging from the edit history and discussion, Chinasaur and VeryVerily like the boxes, Maveric149 and Anthony DiPierro don't like them and want a list. Not sure about Brian0918. I have a mild preference for the list, but would like some way of making it stand out from other external links.
By the way, I'm getting a WikiMedia error when I try and edit Template:Mapit-US-cityscale. Does anyone else have this problem? -- hike395 15:34, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I'd like to get this cleared up before doing the renamed, slightly rethought geolink version. I think we should go with a list. Use H3 or whatever is appropriate rather than wikimarkup to avoid the edit problem. We can probably find some nice way to add the globe or whatever icon as a float next to the list. --User:Chinasaur
Actually, the header list has the problem that most of the rest of external links does not usually use headers, so it's hard to put the template anywhere other than the end, otherwise you can't tell what goes under than header and what doesn't. I think a better approach will be to put the "Maps and aerial photos" in a single depth bullet, and put the actual links in a double bullet. --165.121.146.7 04:14, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
That's an excellent idea! I just implemented it, except for Template:Mapit-US-cityscale, which I still cannot edit (it's flaky).
Chinasaur: I'm not sure geoboxes will competely replace these templates --- we probably should make sure that the geobox mechanism is pretty general (it looks like it can be). For example, cities and counties have an image which shows their locations in the corresponding state; mountains have a photo and some extra information; national parks have the location image + extra park information, etc. I think geoboxes should accomodate all of these. One place to work on geoboxes would be a new Wikipedia:WikiProject Geography. -- hike395 17:02, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I'd like to be as compatible with other information as possible. I'm not sure what you mean by "geoboxes should accomodate all of these" though. I'm not planning on making new boxes to replace the mountain, park, or city boxes. I'm just planning to change the name of the template to geolinks and make it slightly more modular, for example making the color aerial's an optional part of the scheme only for those locations that have them, while the default aerial will always be black and white. I think this is a more consistent approach. Weather satellite photos of the region will also be an optional section. --Chinasaur 05:16, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Oh, sorry. I think I jumped to an incorrect conclusion. I was assuming (from the name, mostly, and the fact that you looked at TreeOfLife) that you were going to create a Wikipedia infobox for geographical objects. This would be in the upper right corner of the article, have an image, a colored border, and a series of information rows. If you wanted to do this (and I think it would be a good idea), you could add extra geobox templates for rows that would be specific to mountains, parks, cities, counties, states, etc. This is equivalent to the TreeOfLife rows that are only valid for species. If you decided to do this, there would be one unifying box for all (well, all US) geographical articles.
Sounds like you're going for something much simpler --- a rework of the template for the external links (at the bottom of the page). That's fine too. The question I have is: do we need a complex TreeOfLife-like thing for that? I like the Mapit templates.. I think they do a great job and are not too difficult to use.
Wow!! These "geobox" templates are really cool. I really like the tiger census map links.
-- hike395 20:36, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Also, I cannot seem to submit changes to cityscale either. I get a server error page every time I try to submit. --User:Chinasaur 05:24, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Mav suggested reporting it to http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org ... I find it kind of intimidating, so I haven't done it yet. -- hike395 05:40, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I was able to edit cityscale now that MW has been updated, so I made it like the rest of the templates. I think the idea of trying to normalize geographic boxes and include some of these links right in the mountain box is a good idea. I don't know if I have time to tackle this sort of thing right now, but if you work on it I will help out. Just make sure you talk things over before you start since we already have sort of a lot of extra templates floating around due to later changes in thinking.

[edit] Generalizations of Mapit/Geolinks templates

These really cool templates can be incorporated into geographic infoboxes. One such geographic infobox is the Mountain Infobox as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Mountains. There's a small discussion about how to integrate the MapIt links into the Mountain Infobox over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Mountains/General. People are welcome to help out over there.

More generally, Mapit links could lead to completely generic geographic infoboxes. Does anyone besides myself think this is a good idea? Should we design a completely generic geographic infobox? -- hike395 14:16, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by lead to a generic infobox? --User:Chinasaur
Check out the article Wikipedia:Infobox. I was thinking that, for every geographic article, we could have some sort of infobox that included a picture, spatial extent (in lat/long, perhaps height), and more specialized rows depending on what sort of geographical object it is. This would be a superset of the Geolinks template: it could include external map links, too.
I tried to propose something like this for mountain articles, but no one else was that excited by it, so I'm just adding geolinks separately from the infobox. In fact, that strategy may be best --- keep geolinks separate from infoboxes, since they are external links and belong in the external links section. So, I've kind of given up on the idea. hike395 04:30, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, leaving it separate seems to be the favored approach for now. I like to be in line with the WP standard, but I'm not totally convinced that geolinks have to be in the external links section. Other external links are not always relegated to the end in that way... But for now, this seems fine. --Chinasaur 15:13, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
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