Talk:Maol Íosa V, Earl of Strathearn

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For a reason or another, an impossible genealogical relationship seems to resurface in this article. I do not why it got wrong in the beginning, but now a ceertain editor, Galgacus, has returned an illogical thought, after I had edited the illogicality away. Now it reads "...his great-grandmother, Maol Íosa II's daughter Maud, who had married the Orkney Earl."

However, that must be presumably wrong, because no one becomes one's great-grandmother by being his great-grandfather's daughter. And, had the daughter truly became the great-grandmother, it would have presumably required a marriage between father and daughter. A such marriage would not have been approved by the then church, nor the society in general. Its likelihood is so near zero that it should not be proposed in any way in the article.

Therefore I request those editors who do not understand sufficiently about genealogy, to refrain from making such blatant errors. Those errors only manage to diminish the value of this encyclopedia.

Published genealogy sources assign a daughter of an earl of Orkney, Maud by name, as one of the wives of Maol Iosa II, and the mother of his son Maol Iosa III. This makes her Maol Iosa V's great-grandmother. It would be very clear that the Maud in question would not have been a daughter of Maol Iosa II himself - she is mentioned as the daughter of an earl of Orkney, a title never eld by Maol Iosa II.

Truly, a bit too little is today factually and reliably known of the earls of Orkney of that period. Sometimes names of relatives are unknown or almost non-attested, or based on guesswork or on a flimsy evidence, such as mention in some chronicle or folklore with also otherwise low credibility. Genealogies printed in sources may be quite sketchy and incomplete and they seem to vary from each other in at least small details.

Another Maud, a daughter of Maol Iosa II, has been written in by some other editor, earlier. (Basically, I do not question that piece of information.) Reciprocality has been quite usual. A general alliance between two lordships often encompasses sending brides from both sides. This other Maud cannot easily be also Maol Iosa V's ancestress (somewhat close relations for a marriage in eyes of the then church), but even that s not impossible (there is a deep gap about who was Maol Iosa V's mother, wife of Maol Iosa IV - if there are sources to suggest a such marriage, it would apparently, not however necessarily, have been between first cousins or second cousins).

Because Maol Iosa V succeeded in Orkney and Caithness, it is equally probable that he descended from the more recent Orkney earls through his mother, than the inheritance came solely by right of Maol Iosa II's wife, which means that he did not descend from more recent Orkneys but just from ones a couple of generations older.

However, any edit should at least avoid confusing the wife of Maol Iosa II and the daughter of Maol Iosa II. Waimea 09:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey Vaimia, I restored the earlier paragraph, because the altered version made no sense; I didn't realise the original section made no sense either. Anyways, I apologize; I don't know what was originally meant, and I don't have access atm to Neville's Native Lordship; but according to the more reliable internet sources, the Earl in question seems to be Gilbert/Gille Brighde, 'though I don't know what that is based on. - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 10:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I would like to check what have been your sources on this issue, and what those sources precisely say about Maol's Orkney descend, about Maud, and about the inheritance of Orkney. I observed that it has been you who started this article and the mention about Orkney-link foremother was in your that original version (admittedly, without making sense either). (Thus, we donot have anyone else to explain where it came from and what it said). I woul also like to know whether your source also contained text that does not make sense either. Please share the exact content of your sources on this. Waimea 13:16, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Strathearn was badly under royal confiscation sorry, but for ignorant me that makes no sense. And exactly which fact do you want a citation for? Fornadan (t) 10:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)