Talk:Manila massacre

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Contents 1 Copy vio? 2 Holocost definition 3 NPOV link 4 Death toll attribution 5 Cleanup and possible merge/redirect?

[edit] Copy vio?

Created hopefully non-copyvio version of page in Manila_Massacre/Temp. --Pikhq

You show me where I supposedly stole those two paragraphs. Give some evidence or you have no argument.--Secret Agent Man 02:59, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Not saying you stole anything. The page had the entire "All Rights Reserved" text of one of the references in it, which I took out. --Pikhq 03:28, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Holocost definition

With the definition of Holocaust, it seems not suitble for this event. Poo-T 05:01, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Why is it not suitable? If Users can link "Chinese Holocaust" to the "Nanking Massacre" how can this event not be part of the "Asian Holocaust" (a term coined by the people of Asia)? The Manila Massacre is just one event of many, many events. The Nanking Massacre, Unit 731, Unit 100, Bataan Death March and others were all part of the Holocaust in Asia, just like Auschwitz, Treblinka, Dachau and the massacres of POWs were part of the Holocaust in Europe. You can see for yourself that this holocaust can be found on the Wikipedia "Holocaust(disambiguation)" page.

[edit] NPOV link

Delete a link. Comparing other two references, it is not a kind of reference, as many photographes are disputed in Japan about it's explanation. Additionally, the website seems far from NPOV. For ex. http://www.kimsoft.com/2004/go-chosun.htm 'Chinese dynasty has its root in 9000 years old Korean Dynasty' --Poo-T 05:26, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Death toll attribution

It is true that Rear Admiral Iwabuchi's troops entered into street fighting with the U.S. in defiance of Gen. Yamashita's order, and their desperate act are known. But it is also known that the U.S. shore bombardment destroyed large portion of the city of Manila. Unless someone proves the attribution of the death toll is fair, I keep the {{disputed}} tag. --Nanshu 00:49, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps you didn't peruse any of the links and sources that's provided. Those reliable Western and Eastern Sources, such as Hammond and Rummel, specifically stated the death toll of 100,000 civilians referred to ones killed by the Imperialists ONLY. All other deaths caused by disease, friendly fire, starvation, and exposure are deliberately excluded in those sources. Unless new sources are provided that directly contradict their investigations, there is no argument in this article. http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/20centry.htm

My sources suggest that the 100,000 figure is a combined death toll, including deaths that could be attributed to artillery attacks by American forces, accidental killings by American occupying forces, etc. The one I can think of that gives the number as a combines total off hand is Ronald Spector's "Eagle against the Sun." The book (which seems hard to come by), "Warsaw in Asia: The Rape of Manila" by Jose Ma. Bonifacio M Escoda would seem to be a valuable one to consult on this subject. Unfortunately, I don't have any possibility of getting ahold of it. --Lendorien 06:17, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup and possible merge/redirect?

I did a basic cleanup of the entry. I tried to remove some of the more emotionally weighted stuff to make it more encyclopaedic. It still needs proper sourcing and more detail. I don't have my books in front of me, but I'll try to add more details to the entry and sourcing this evening when I have them available. --Lendorien 20:31, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

The article Battle for the Liberation of Manila seems to cover everything here with more detail. Perhaps a merge or redirect is in order? --Lendorien 06:42, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Am the author of Warsaw of Asia:The Rape of Manila. It is based mostly on the accounts of seventy-nine survivors, including American soldiers. It is the only book about the Battle of Manila with the most number of photographs, most of which have never been published before and the close up photos of those Spaniards and Filipinos who were killed. Some of the photos that have been published before now contains the names of those in the pictures.

you can contact me through boni_escoda2005@yahoo Jose Maria Bonifacio Escoda I will share some of the gruesome details. The 100,000 death toll of unarmed civilians was just an estimated number made by the American Forces. It might ran between 50,000 to 75,000 The population of Manila then was just around 800,000.Many of them left for their provinces before the Battle of Manila. All the remaining survivors lost aquaintances and relatives to the uncessant shelling of the Americans and Japanese bullets, fires and bayonets. The southern part of Manila suffered. Intramuros, the anciant Walled City, was ninty-five percent destroyed.Almost all the males, including Catholic priest were murdered by the Japanese.Around five thousand of the civilians who were held as captives in Fort Santiago and hostages held in San Agustin and another churches and hospitals were killed.

The remaining districts like Malate and Ermita whihc was the seat of the social and intellectual elite were ninety-percent leveled to the ground by the American shelling and JApanese arson squads.

The civilians who were trapped in the city were either killed by American shells or Japanese grenades,fire, bayonets or bullets. The gardens became shallow grave yards.

Around four hundred women who were living in Isac Peral and Padre Faura were gang rape by the Japanese marines for three days iside the Bayview Hotel and Alhambra Apartments. The males were all killed.