Talk:Macedonia (Greece)
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Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived. If further archiving is needed, see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.
Previous discussions:
- Archive 1 (April 26 2003 to November 21 2005)
- Archive 2 (November 21 2005 to 15 January 2006)
- Archive 3 (15 January 2006 to 7 July 2006)
Contents |
[edit] International Reactions
These are useful to understand geopolitics and international perceptions, and the reasons and change of these perceptions through time. Perhaps a corresponding section should be created in these articles.
I'll start with a quote.
«ἡ κυβέρνησις τῶν Η.Π.Α. θεωρεῖ, ὅτι συζήτησις περὶ «Μακεδονικοῦ ἔθνους, Μακεδονικῆς πατρίδος καὶ Μακεδονικῆς ἐθνικῆς συνειδήσεως» ἰσοῦται μὲ δημαγωγίαν, ποὺ δὲν ὑποκρύπτει ἐθνικὴν ἢ πολιτικὴν πραγματικότητα, ἀλλὰ ὑποκρύπτει ἐπεκτατικὰς διαθέσεις κατὰ τῆς Ἑλλάδος».
"The United States government holds, that any discussion of a Macedonian nation, Macedonian homeland, or Macedonian national identity, to be demagoguery, that does not hold ethnic or political reality, but expansionary attitudes towards Greece."
- Edward Stettinius, U.S. Secretary of State, December 26, 1944
http://www.sartzetakis.gr/points/makedonia16.html
[edit] What can't we just move it too Macedonia, Greece?
--Fukutu 04:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
Dear Fukutu, please familiarise yourself with the Macedonian conflict by reading the featured article Macedonia (terminology). Most Greeks in Macedonia do not self-identify as Macedonian Greeks, but as Macedonian period. Therefore their land, is not identified as Macedonia, Greece, but as Macedonia period as well. That will be a tough one, and I suggest we keep it as it is to avoid unnecessary conflicts. •NikoSilver• 10:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not saying that people from this region in Greece, do or don't consider themselves Greek. They can consider themselves anything they want to. I'm just saying that Macedonia is a region in Greece, so I think having ", Greece" over "(Greece)" is an improvement. So I 'm asking, what makes "(Greece)" better than ", Greece"?--Fukutu 11:36, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
- Let me first clear out that I am not trying to defend one or the other title. Presumably, "(Greece)", allows for the help:pipe trick, which produces "[[Macedonia (Greece)|Macedonia]]" if you just type "[[Macedonia (Greece)|]]", saving you from a few keystrokes. Secondly, most related articles are of this form, like Macedonia (region), Macedonia (terminology), Macedonians (Greek), Macedonians (ethnic group) and soon Macedonia (ancient state) (see Talk:Macedon). When something works and prevents edit-wars, as apparently this has done for years in this controversial article, the worst thing to do is damage the equilibrium that has been reached through extensive talks. That ofcourse, doesn't prevent anyone from discussing it, or being bold, but generally, these are sensitive articles and bold attempts create more tension than good. Next, I'll expect a fellow Greek editor just go ahead and move Macedonians (ethnic group) to Macedonians, Slav, Macedon to Macedonia, ancient Greece, or a Macedonian Slav editor go ahead and move Macedonians (Greek) to Macedonians, Aegean and so on. Finally, what I told you before: many Greeks resent the implication that "Macedonia" needs being disambiguated by any addition, since many Greeks believe that "Macedonia is one and only and it is Greek". The parentheses (especially combined with the pipe trick) signify that better, so I suspect that it is a matter of self-identification. The same applies to our Slav friends in their related articles, like in the Gdansk precedent (see Talk:Gdansk/Vote). •NikoSilver• 13:01, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, but I was using geographical commas. Slav isn't a country so "Macedonians, Slav" would be a bit sus. While Macedonia period would be good, since a Country decided to name itself Macedonia that’s not going to happen. But I respect the brackets I really do.--Fukutu 03:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
- Let me first clear out that I am not trying to defend one or the other title. Presumably, "(Greece)", allows for the help:pipe trick, which produces "[[Macedonia (Greece)|Macedonia]]" if you just type "[[Macedonia (Greece)|]]", saving you from a few keystrokes. Secondly, most related articles are of this form, like Macedonia (region), Macedonia (terminology), Macedonians (Greek), Macedonians (ethnic group) and soon Macedonia (ancient state) (see Talk:Macedon). When something works and prevents edit-wars, as apparently this has done for years in this controversial article, the worst thing to do is damage the equilibrium that has been reached through extensive talks. That ofcourse, doesn't prevent anyone from discussing it, or being bold, but generally, these are sensitive articles and bold attempts create more tension than good. Next, I'll expect a fellow Greek editor just go ahead and move Macedonians (ethnic group) to Macedonians, Slav, Macedon to Macedonia, ancient Greece, or a Macedonian Slav editor go ahead and move Macedonians (Greek) to Macedonians, Aegean and so on. Finally, what I told you before: many Greeks resent the implication that "Macedonia" needs being disambiguated by any addition, since many Greeks believe that "Macedonia is one and only and it is Greek". The parentheses (especially combined with the pipe trick) signify that better, so I suspect that it is a matter of self-identification. The same applies to our Slav friends in their related articles, like in the Gdansk precedent (see Talk:Gdansk/Vote). •NikoSilver• 13:01, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Star of Vergina
"It originated from the vergina tombs on a golden casket from the tomb of Philip, father of Alexander The Great. But this archaeological find had already long been a part of Greek identity - causing a massive diplomatic row"
"Similar abuses occurred during the Balkans conflicts following Yugoslavia's break-up - not just in Macedonia, but throughout the region, argued Stasa Babic of Belgrade University"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3372117.stm
[edit] Dimanovski's edits
These edits do not belong here: this article is about the Greek part of Macedonia - the history of the Republic of Macedonia is treated there. Andreas (T) 02:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
