Talk:Mace Windu

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[edit] Note I put on the archive

I removed all of the comment of Mace Windu being alive from this talk page when I archived it was just spam because George Lucas said he was dead so please don't bring it back up it might end up with people vandalizing the article saying he is alive. thank you

I put this on the archive please don't bring this back up. Thanks--Team6and7 22:28, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Endless Mace vs. Palpatine Debate

I cleaned up the section about whether Mace or Palpatine was winning the duel before Anakin intervened. I am actually the one who originated the blurb a while back and have watched how it developed over time. A few months ago, the section had evolved nicely and gave balanced information for both sides of the debate. I have made revisions now because the section has gotten messy and disorganized. The section was intended to describe the debate and to be concise and to the point. But instead it seems like the section has ballooned into a forum for arguing for or against the different sides of the debate and advancing personal theories and analyses, so I wanted to take it back to its original purpose.

-I removed the "most fans believe..." wording because the accuracy of it is debatable and because I've seen the wording used in favoring both sides. Unless it can be backed up by precise statistics of all Star Wars fans, I'd rather just say "some" fans believe one side and "some" fans believe the other side.

-I removed the part about earlier drafts of the script suggesting that Palpatine threw the fight, because only the final script and final film count. The earlier drafts would be more relevant in a discussion about the writing process of Episode III.

-Before revising the section, the section had become skewed towards being pro-Palpatine, with pro-Mace examples being deleted while pro-Palpatine examples were discussed at length. The mention of the official character profiles have now been re-inserted to bring balance back to the section.

-I also reorganized the composition of the section to make it read in a more organized way.

JerryKong2000 18:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

On a side note, you made the right choice on the "most fans believe..." removals- here's the policy on such "weasel words". Spread the good word. ;) --DarthBinky 15:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, "some fans believe..." is no more acceptable than "most fans believe..." The objection to those terms is that they make unsourced statements about an unquantified and unspecified number of anonymous people. For this topic to justify its inclusion on the page, it must include specific cites that meet the criteria for reliable sources.--Nalvage 02:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Oops, yeah, I should probably have read all of what he said before I responded- I thought he just said that he removed it and left it at that. That's why I mentioned the "weasel wording" policy.--DarthBinky 02:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Nalvage, DarthBinky, I understand your point.

The reason this section was written in the first place was because people kept screwing around with the Episode III portion within Mace's main history, changing wording to promote one side over the other, and essentially turning that portion into a forum of sorts. NPOV got left in the dust. You can also see how large the debate is if you look at the official Star Wars community forum and other fan forums. It's amazing how long the threads go. The debate was significant enough to get officially addressed on Star Wars Homing Beacon # 139. Here on Wikipedia, the constantly changing wording over the duel is an example of a large fan debate spilling over into an encyclopedia-type article. Therefore, I thought a separate section describing the debate was the cleanest way to keep Mace's main history on topic and at the same time acknowledge the debate.

I've now cited and linked Homing Beacon #139 as a direct point of origin for this section. It's an official source, so I think it's a good way to validate the section. I was thinking of citing fan forums, but they get too numerous and it will still come off like "original research". Let me know what you think.

JerryKong2000 16:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

As for the part about Mace possibly surviving after falling out the window, I didn't write it. But that debate always seems to get included in the article, so I've just left it in. If anybody is knowledgeable about that debate, go ahead and work with it.

JerryKong2000 17:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi JerryKong2000. I appreciate how frustrating things can get when you're up against warring segments of fandom. Looks like that Homing Beacon is a good source though, nice work. Re: the Mace-survival thing... I don't know nearly enough to take a crack at sourcing it or cleaning it up. My preference would be to just delete the thing and keep deleting it each time it gets reinserted without a reliable source. Annoying to have to do if it crops up a lot though.--Nalvage 03:48, 12 December 2006 (UTC)