Talk:Médecins Sans Frontières

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Contents 1 Requested move 1.1 Support 1.2 Oppose 1.3 Discussion 2 Other talk page stuff 3 Photo editorializing 4 Percentage of aid given by governments

[edit] Requested move

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~

[edit] Support

1. This is the area for the proposed move of the article to Doctors Without Borders. I think it should be moved because that's how most of the English world knows it as. I vote move. -- Spinboy 18:43, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
2. Support. Doctors without borders it should be! -- Earl Andrew - talk 18:42, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
3. Support. Article names should reflect the widespread English usage. AlbertR 22:16, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
4. Support move. Niteowlneils 02:31, 18 August 2005 (UTC) Second choice is Medecins Sans Frontieres (no diacritics). Niteowlneils 23:08, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
5. Support. I don't think I'd even heard the other term before; I'd only know what it meant due to its similarity to Spanish. — Knowledge Seeker দ 05:55, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
6. Weakly support. It is known by both names in Australia. – AxSkov (☏) 07:18, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
7. Support. "Doctors Without Borders" is much more common in media use in my experience. Jonathunder 21:05, 2005 August 21 (UTC)

[edit] Oppose

1. Oppose. Might be worth noting that nobody uses the English abbreviation, DWB, only MSF. In the mid-late 1990s MSF-USA started a rebranding effort to try to get everyone to start using their French name, but ran into a brick wall with the American press. Some American publications like the New York Times have a strict policy of translating every foreign word into English. Cyanide987 11:55, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
2. Oppose. Speaking from English Canada here, and I'm quite familiar with both versions in English usage. I know several individuals who are involved with this group, and they tend to use the term Médecins sans Frontières. This seems to be reflected in their websites both for English Canada and the UK Canadian MSF site UK MSF site
3. Oppose the move, although not particularly strongly - it's always known as MSF (in the UK), and that's also the primary/original name. This may be the English WP, but that doesn't necessarily make MSF an unsuitable article title. sjorford →•← 12:37, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
4. Oppose, it's known as MSF, it should stay there. 132.205.3.20 17:42, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
5. Strongly oppose; always, always known as MSF, except in the States, seemingly. Same should go for RSF, too. James F. (talk) 01:09, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
6. Oppose — I've heard both names in the Australian media, which as a rule has less appetite for foreign-language phrases than (for instance) the UK, but Médecins sans Frontières does seem to be the official name. -- Perey 12:50, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
7. Stongly oppose, I am English and have never seen it written in the translated form Op. Deo 07:57, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
8. Oppose. I agree with sjorford's comments, the UK name is Médecins Sans Frontières, although the accents are sometimes omitted in the UK press. CS Miller 18:26, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
9. Oppose But I would like the name to be accentless Medecins Sans Frontieres Philip Baird Shearer 21:08, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
10. Oppose. UK media use Médecins sans Frontières, see comment below. I have never seen "Doctors Without Borders" as the name. Telsa 10:44, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
11. Oppose. MSF has a redirect from DWB already. There is no confusion about its official name. Ancheta Wis 00:08, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. Dragons flight 14:47, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

So then, in the UK, Australia and other English-speaking areas, the group is known as Médecins sans Frontières rather than "Doctors Without Borders"? That is the impression being given in this entry. Shouldn't the redirection go the other way in the English-language Wikipedia-- not of course in the Wikipédie. Wetman 12:41, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Pretty much. In the UK media at least the accent marks are omitted -- Medecins Sans Frontieres -- though not by the UK branch of the organisation itself; this may just be a matter of house style at Reuters UK. Thus Médecins Sans Frontières is the primary international and international-English name of MSF and Medecins sans Frontieres and Doctors Without Borders are alternative names used in the UK and USA respectively (and elsewhere in the English speaking world). If MSF were called Doctors Without Borders across the English speaking world then that would be the appropriate title for en-Wikipedia; but it isn't, so it ain't. Stating that Doctors Without Borders is the American English name for MSF should help clear the issue. Acanon

I'm from Australia and I know it as Doctor Without Borders. - Mark 11:01, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm from Canada and I know it as Doctors Without Borders. -- Spinboy 22:00, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

MSF is known by both Medesins San Frontieres (note: without accents) and Doctors Without Borders in Australia, as indicated in the media and by MSF's website. I would support a move to Medecins Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Borders), but that's just a compromise suggestion. I would also support a move to Medecins Sans Frontieres, which doesn't use the accents. – AxSkov (☏) 07:18, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm from Canada, and it is known as Médecins Sans Frontières and Doctors Without Borders. 132.205.3.20 17:45, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Strongly oppose. The predominant use of the name is Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) throughout all its operational centers and partner sections. It's adopted by the MSF International Council in about the early 90s. The US section is the only English-speaking sections that would carry both the name in French and English (Doctors Without Borders) in the press release or publication, and even that, French should come before English. All the other sections, in Australia, Canada, Hong Kong and even the UK office sticks to its name – Médecins Sans Frontìères.

Although this is an English platform, the page should remain as it is right now – Médecins Sans Frontières.

If there should be any redirection, it should be Doctors Without Borders to Médecins Sans Frontières.

Sorry - Just not too sure how i can add my comment on the discussion area... :P --Pinguis 07:01, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

To support the parent comment about "even the UK", here are pointers to The Guardian newspaper's style guide for things beginning with D [1] and M [2] as examples of a UK broadsheet usage (it uses Médecins Sans Frontières and does not even mention Doctors Without Borders). The BBC use Médecins Sans Frontières (although often without the accents on the website): a quick search of their website finds multiple mentions of that and a mention of Doctors Without Borders only in an interview with someone from America. Telsa 10:44, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Just because it's the official name doesn't mean that's the one we use. Wikipedia policy is to use the name that most people in that language would refer to it as. -- Spinboy 05:05, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Of course because its the official name we use it. We don't list the CIA as "the Agency", or the FBI as "the Bureau" or "Men in Black". Moreover, as mentioend above, the term is used predominantly only in America, as opposed to Australia, Canada, and Great Britain. Theres no reason to make it American-centric. SiberioS 16:59, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps we should find precendent in the nomenclature of Côte d'Ivoire, which was formerly known as "Ivory Coast" in the US and, I assume, often translated to the local vernacular around the world. As of 1985 the gov't of Côte d'Ivoire has requested that it not be translated, to mixed international acceptance. Therefore I believe that we should make the title of the article "Médecins Sans Frontières" and then have Doctors Without Borders redirect.JD79 23:31, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other talk page stuff

Médecins Sans Frontières was created in 1971 by a small group of French doctors, I'd love to see some names attached to that as I've seen them mentioned around the Internet before - with luck we could even wikilink some names. Sherurcij ^{(talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject)} 21:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm a little bit concerned by the implication that Cholera vaccination is something that is carried out routinely. The Mozambique vaccinations were a trial, which proved very effective but the organisation has not yet changed it's intervention protocols to include it as standard. chebizarro 24:00, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photo editorializing

It seems like there's some editorializing going on here with the photos. For instance Image:Starved_girl.jpg doesn't seem to be directly related to the content of the article. If it showed someone suffering from kwashiorkor being treaded by MSF doctors then it would be more deserving of inclusion. Theshibboleth 12:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, it does relate to the paragraph it is attached to as it purports to be a photo of a child suffering from severe acute malnutrition during the Biafran civil war, which was the conflict that saw the birth of MSF. --193.133.69.201 11:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Percentage of aid given by governments

I went to a lecture about MSF at King's College (Guy's Campus) a fortnight back where surgeons who worked for MSF had a debate; during this they stated that MSF takes approx 45% of it's aid from governmental sources; not as appears on this wiki.Fishystick 00:30, 3 December 2006 (UTC)