Talk:Louisiana

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An event in this article is a April 30 selected anniversary (may be in HTML comment)


it would be nice if there was a timeline element as well..

Good job to whoever put the state quarter picture here. I'm wondering why it hasn't been done for other states that already have their quarter? It would be a nice addition. Just thinking . . . MattSal 00:54, Nov 25, 2003 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Is French an official language of the State

[1]

[edit] Length of river in state

This sounds incorrect:

... the Mississippi River, which traverses the state from north to south for a distance of about 600 miles and ultimately emptying into the Gulf of Mexico...
Maybe this takes into account all the bends in the river, but as for the length it "traverses [in] the state from north to south", that sounds like it should be measured "as the crow flies" I think. DavidH 23:12, July 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Louisiane" or "La Louisiane?"

I thought the official French name for the state is "La Louisiane," but I'm not positive though. Funnyhat 03:24, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

   In French you can say either Louisiane or La Louisiane, as you can say France ou La France, it depends of where the name is placed in a sentence.

[edit] Largest City: N.O. or B.R.?

Regarding edit made on Sept. 2 by 70.80.127.149: Although New Orleans is practically empty now and many of those people are now in Baton Rouge, we must remember that the evacuation causing this population shift is only temporary. Only time will tell how many of these evacuees will actually stay in Baton Rouge, but until the New Orleans area is salvaged and we have a better idea of how many actually return to the city permanently, I think we should leave New Orleans as the largest city for now.

Actually, many New Orleans residents have said they are NOT returning. Remember a lot of them also left for places like Houston, which cuts the New Orleans population even more. I would expect less than half of the 480,000 people from New Orleans to return. Baton Rouge will likely jump to over 320,000... CrazyC83 05:45, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
But, their stated intentions should not be construed as fact. At this point it is just conjecture. Simply because one is in a shelter in Baton Rouge and declares they won't return to New Orleans, does not make them a Baton Rouge resident. They can chose to settle anywhere. For sake of comparison, the Pocono Raceway declares that it is the 3rd largest city in Pennsylvania on race day. An amusing statistic, but not factual.
WP:NOT, Wikipedia is NOT a paper encyclopedia, we can react to changes in situations with the speed of a news organization, and we should. The official word is that currently, almost no one lives in New Orleans, it has been evacuated, and will remain empty for months as the effort to drain, clean, and rebuild the city takes place. That is the absolute bottom line. New Orleans is no longer the largest city, Baton Rouge is. One day that may shift back, but regardless BR is NOW the largest and our article should be dynamic enough to reflect that. Agriculture 16:04, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
P.S., sign your freaking comments. Agriculture 16:04, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
A valid point, but just because a person is not physically in a city does not mean that they do not live there anymore. If I am vacationing in Hawaii that doesn't make me a resident of Hawaii. Although there are many evacuees who probably will not return to live in New Orleans, there are many people who will return as soon as the city is revitalized and are therefore still residents of New Orleans, even though they will likely not "live" there for several months. So officially, New Orleans is the largest city until we get a clearer idea of how many people will move back to New Orleans once it has been revived. Anyway, hopefully my latest edit to the article's sidebar will satisfy both sides. 24.162.95.111 04:51, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
Well done, your edit does indeed capture the best of both worlds. I think a round of applause is in serious order. Agriculture 05:00, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

The figures in this article indicate that as of late December 2005, the best estimates for the still shifting situation puts the population city of New Orleans proper as the third largest in the state, still behind Baton Rouge and Shreveport, but that Greater New Orleans is again the most populous Metro area in the city state, having surpassed Greater Baton Rouge. -- Infrogmation 19:02, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


I said this in another discussion, but I am fairly sure that the population of Jefferson Parish is now greater than that of East Baton Rouge Parish. So technically, JP by itself is the largest city in the state (even though this is sort of absurd since it's greater N.O. more than a city in itself.) Bottom line: take Baton Rouge out of the equation--it's not the biggest city any way you cut it. Wbbigtymer 07:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Huh? Since when is Jefferson Parish a city? It contains several cities. The only parish in Louisiana that is coterminous with a city is Orleans. Baton Rouge is NOT coterminous with EBR parish. --Golbez 08:02, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


Well the point is that you can do a parish-by-parish comparison or you can do a metro area by metro area comparison, and I think both of those make more sense than simply talking about single cities, but in any event, I don't have data on that and I haven't seen anyone else who does either. Wbbigtymer 15:17, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Golbez. The category is “biggest city.” Jefferson Parish is a parish and not a city. While it was well on its way in the next census to be the most populous parish in the state before Katrina and probably is currently the most populous parish in the state, it is not a city. I also believe discussions about other cities on List of U.S. states' largest cities have established that the ranking of biggest city goes only to the actual population inside an incorporation’s borders and not the metro area surrounding it. Nolamgm 15:36, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Having established that, I have yet to see current evidence that Baton Rouge, and not Metairie, Kenner, or even New Orleans aren't the largest in population. I have posted the link to the story that New Orleans has grown 35% in population since December, has passed the 200,000 mark as of Feb., and will easily by at 300,000 by the end of the year, if not sooner. Since Baton Rouge is, at most, around 300,000 in population, and probably more like 250,000 (someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I live in Baton Rouge because I go to LSU and I have seen DRAMATIC drops in traffic and other signs of population swelling that were caused by Katrina) and this is a very fluid and dynamic issue, I think we're approaching the point at which it is no longer uncontestable to call Baton Rouge the state's largest city. Wbbigtymer 00:00, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry. I must be missing it, but I cannot find your post on the population growth. I do not think New Orleans can be called the biggest city again until the population gets to around 300,000. At last official census Baton Rouge was about 227,000 and Shreveport just under 200,000. The problem I foresee is that it would be inaccurate to label New Orleans the biggest city as soon as the population passes 227,000 because we must also consider any long term spike in Baton Rouge's population as a result of evacuees remaining. After the city elections there should be some solid numbers on New Orleans coming out. Nolamgm 05:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I just finished reading the study done by the RAND Corp. They give a current population of 155,000. By September, 2006 they estimate 198,000. Three years post-Katrina, they estimate that the population will reach 272,000, or about 56% of the pre-Katrina population. The entire study can be found here: [2]. The study is very interesting reading. As pre-Katrina Baton Rouge had a population of around 227,000 and all credible evidence point to it gaining population as a result of the storm, I think it is time to remove any qualification on Baton Rouge being labeled the largest city in the state. Nolamgm 22:14, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

On a related note, I added that the estimate for 2005 was July 1. For the rest of the states, it wouldn't matter much, but considering Katrina and Rita and it's effects on population... 168.166.196.40 22:01, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not a territory

That article (http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/09/05/141028.php) was satire. JD 05:15, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

(To Illinoisian and Agriculture: if you truly believe that article to be true, then I have some oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.)
Teh intarweb would nevar lie to me!!! Illinoisian 18:27, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Illinoisian, please stop re-adding this nonsense. older≠wiser 00:04, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Napoleonic Code and Civil Law Terms

Re this text: "Louisiana is the only state whose legal system is based on Roman, Spanish, and French civil law as opposed to English common law. Technically, it is known as "Civil Law," or the "Civilian System." It is often incorrectly referred to as the "Code Napoleon" or The Napoleonic Code. It is important to note that the Louisiana Civil Code and the French Civil Code, often referred to as the Napoleonic Code, came into existence at roughly the same time. Louisiana was never governed by the Napoleonic Code."

Well, see this article: Yiannopoulos, A.N., The Civil Codes of Louisiana (reprinted from Civil Law System: Louisiana and Comparative law, A Coursebook: Texts, Cases and Materials, 3d Edition; similar to version in preface to Louisiana Civil Code, ed. by Yiannopoulos), which notes: "The redactors of the Louisiana Civil Code of 1808 based codification on a variety of sources. They followed as a model preparatory works of the French Civil Code as well as the finished text of that code. The 1808 Digest contained 2,160 articles. 1,516 of these articles, about seventy per cent of the whole, corresponded with, and were based upon, provisions of the French projet du gouvernement of 1800 or of the Napoleonic Code. Three hundred and twenty-one articles, about fifteen per cent of the whole, were based upon other French statutes or upon French doctrinal works. Most of the remaining articles were based directly on Spanish materials."

Perhaps something should be mentioned here from this or similar sources to make clearer the role of the Napoleonic Code in the Louisina Civil Code. Also in this respect: there is a famous scholarly debate in Louisiana over whether the original La. civil code is "really" Spanish, or French: see, e.g., Pascal, Robert A. and Rodolfo Batiza, Tournament of Scholars: articles debating the actual sources of the Louisiana Civil Code of 1808--Spanish or French Law.

Finally, my own article A Civil Law to Common Law Dictionary is relevant for the discussion on La. civil law terminology.

Your Article is was very useful to me in law school when I was fighting m way through freshman common law classes in my third year. I now question the comment that " While most of the differences are now found in verbiage..." (This comment was added by me under 68.14.116.154 before I made myself a name.) At the time I intended it to fix some drastic problems in the article as to the differences between civil law and common law, but to do it in a gradual way. However on further review I am of the opinion that this statement is incorrect as well. While it is true as with the multiple formulas for determine negligence that the application of civil and common law will often result in the exact same outcome, as with the multiple formulas for determine negligence used in the U.S., this is not always the case. Likewise it is true that Louisiana often goes out of its way to change the verbiage or terminology when adopting a common law aspect into its law. However, the above described statement is of simplification of the relationship between the two great legal systems in the world. Therefore, I am removing it. Nolamgm 14:34, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I have just added a sentence clarifying the roles of Civil and Common Law in Louisiana, and I added a parenthetical phrase in the article on legal systems to the same effect. It is a common misconception that Louisiana's entire legal system is Civilian. In fact all of criminal law, public/administrative law, and (of course) virtually all of federal law in Louisiana are common-law (and N.B., the noun is capitalized, but the adjective is hyphenated and not capitalized). It is particularly annoying to see people in the rest of the country reflexively add the phrase "except in Louisiana" to any statement about American law, as though, e.g., murder is not a crime in Louisiana, or contracts cannot exist there. - Georg Herlitz, MD, JD.

I think the additions might be going a bit too far. I do not think it is necessary to detail every part of Louisiana law that is based on common law. The prior version gave a concise description of the areas of Louisiana law that are civilian. I also question the statement that “business entities structure, [and] much of civil procedure” is civilian. The statement “criminal law … [is] entirely based” in the common law also negates at the very least the use of civilian terms in Louisiana criminal law. For example: “prescription” instead of “statute of limitations.” The part about law in federal court also needs to be cleaned up. Remember this is writing for the general public and not the legal field. Nolamgm 20:49, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I think I was the one who started the whole "Louisiana is not based on the Napleonic Code" thing way back when. I wrote it after wrapping up a particulary exhaustive legal history class. I should have clarified more that the original drafters of the various codes all had copies of the Napoleonic Code while they were writing the state's own civil code; and it is certain that they did use a lot of material from it. But the state was never formally governed by the Napoeonic Code, since the Louisiana Purchase happened the year before the Napoleonic Code's enactment. I had hoped to clarify it enough so that people would stop saying, "Oh, y'all got that Napoleonic Code down there..." (which is incorrect.) I meant for the article to mention the actual governing authorities that controlled the state, which were primarily Spanish Civil code, and by extension, Roman civil code, and whatever France was using for the few months leading up to the Louisiana Purchase (I forget now). I have subsequently rewritten it to hopefully clarify it more.--68.105.50.50 19:21, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Funny. I thought I was the one that did that back in the day. Edit seems to make it a lot clearer. Nolamgm 02:35, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

We can argue about it tomorrow at work. 68.105.50.50 05:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Correct French name

I see on January 11, 2006 user Bill Thayer changed "État de Louisiane" to "État de la Louisiane". This is not the first time that some users change the name. I believe these users have good intentions, but they simply ignore the proper rules of French grammar. So once and for all: the correct French long form of the state's name is "État de Louisiane", no "la".

I know there is this tendency among English speaking people to believe that French speakers use the definite article ("le" or "la") all the time, but the reality is much more complex. Despite clichés, French speakers in many instances do not use the definite article. This is especially the case in titles and in official names. So you'll find "France", and not "la France". For most US states, the French names do not use the definite article. For instance, you'll find "État de Californie", "État de New York", "État de Floride", etc., no "la".

I hope this clarifies the matter and please in the future revert users who add the extra "la", as I'm sure this is going to happen several times again. Hardouin 23:56, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I think definitive source for this should be the Council for the Development of French in Louisiana (CODOFIL). This is the non-profit organization created by the Louisiana state legislature that is dedicated to renewing the population of French speakers in Louisiana. Their web site is in both in French and English. This page contains a timeline of important events in the French language in Louisiana. Take a look at 1998. In noting the development of a Cajun French program at Louisiana State University it refers to the school as "L’Université de l`État de Louisiane." Hope this helps. Nolamgm 03:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed this. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing! Yes, Americans often add le and la thinking to Frenchify things. Unfortunately, in this case, it is indeed "la Louisiane etc. (Before we go any further, as you should have seen on my page, I'm a native speaker of French: my high school was all in French, my mother was French, and worked for over 20 years as a French interpreter.) But the authority in matters of French usage, we can take Grevisse, Le bon usage:
(my edition, 1969, a bit old, but hardly outdated or superseded: §317, p264) L'article s'emploie : [. . .] 1o Devant les noms propres de continents, de pays, de provinces, de montagnes, de mers, de cours d'eau, etc.: L"Amérique, la France, la Bourgogne, le Périgord, les Vosges, la Méditerranée, la Loire.

And American states are, in this context, regions or provinces. (It is also "l'Aragon", "la Sicile", "le Yorkshire", while we're at it.) I've reverted to standard French usage. Bill

Answered on Bill's talk page. Hardouin 00:22, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Disagree — and as I point out on Hardouin's talk page, the work I cited is not a grammar, but the standard French work on idiom and usage, and 50 years of speaking French and 20 of making my living as a French interpreter would no more have me say "Etat de Louisiane" than "département de Gironde" — but Wikipedia is an experiment in democracy (read the appalling article Split infinitive) and this will breed endless hostilities. I don't like fights, so we'll forget about it; but democracy doesn't produce the best encyclopedias. Wikipedia would be far better if each article were refereed by people in the particular fields involved, like Nupedia. Bill 00:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Ya'll are forgetting something: This is Louisiana, not Paris, and Acadian French is different in many small and subtle ways. Also, as a example of local usage, the officially-sponsored (but not tax-supported) "fan" group for the State Archives -- historians, genealogists, etc -- is called "Le Comité des Archives de la Louisiane." Note the article. --Michael K. Smith 21:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hi i want to know something intresting about lousiana like artifacts or something cool

i head john cusck say in one of his quotes that no man wears a crown but all are king in lousiana is it true

Huey Long

[edit] Official Nickname

The recent revert of the addition of “Bayou State” and “Sportsman’s Paradise” because they were “not official” piqued my curiosity. First I questioned why a nickname had to be “official” in order to be recognized. I know that all three have been on state license plates at one time or the other with “Sportsman’s Paradise” being present as long as I can recall. I then decided to do some actual research, and I ran all three through the Louisiana Annotated Statute Database on Westlaw. Only “Sportsman’s Paradise” appears in the text of any current statute. It appears in reference to the current license plates and to a special hunting and fishing license offered. “Bayou State” and “Pelican State” do not appear in the text of any statutes. Therefore, I believe that if any of the three are official it is “Sportman’s Paradise.” I am sure there is some obscure resolution will prove me wrong. However, until that happens I do not see any reason to keep all three from being listed. Nolamgm 03:03, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

This argument belongs at List of U.S. state nicknames; until you can change that, I'm getting rid of the other two. --Golbez 05:08, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
The list you refer to is based only on the link to Information about U.S. State Nicknames. As far as I can tell, that page is written by and is the sole opinion of one man, Mike Todd. By your actions, you have made Mr. Todd the sole arbiter of what constitutes a nickname of a State. This is not consensus. This is only Mr. Todd’s opinion. Nolamgm 06:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
OK then, clearly this is a bigger issue and should be brought up on the Wikiproject's talk page and on the talk page of the state nicknames list (which I see you did not do, even though I suggested it). In the meantime, my cursory search has led me to "Sportsman's Paradise" so I'll pop that in there. --Golbez 07:30, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
This is one of the biggest problems with Wikipedia: edits become more trouble then they need to be. I try to keep my substantive edits to subjects I have a good knowledge of. Mainly I stick to Louisiana issues. I do not want to get into a big issue about the nicknames of all 50 states. Blinutne made an edit adding two nicknames in addition to "Pelican State." You reverted these additions stating affirmatively that only “Pelican State” was official. I did research of current Louisiana statutes and detailed the research above. I then reverted to include all three nicknames. You reverted backed. Now you have deleted all but “Sportman’s Paradise.” I question this on several grounds. First, how did you decide that this is the only official nickname? Second, how do you define “official?” Third, upon what grounds are only official nicknames allowed in a state article? I choice to discuss this issue here because this is the page that is subject to the edits and reverts. This is where the discussion belongs. If you wish to try to form some consensus of what aconstitutes a nickname for Wikipedia purposes, then I suggest to start a discussion on the project you mention. My interests do not extend that far. Again, research and reasoning that is detailed being reverted in favor of an admitted “cursory search” is highly problematic. All three nicknames have been included on Louisiana license plates at one times or another. All three are commonly used to refer to Louisiana. All three should be included in this article. Nolamgm 21:57, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I see you have not taken my advice of asking people who have done a lot more work on this front at the nicknames and wikiproject page. Why do you continue to argue with me when you could get far better answers if you did what I suggested (twice)? --Golbez 08:27, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

(Starting a new exdent, otherwise we'll be squoze into the right margin!) It's hard to say what's official, and whether that matters. But in the interest of preventing "Nickname" from becoming one of those silly lists that litter Wikipedia articles, Pelican State is clearly the one, with as close to official sanction as possible in the lead-off paragraph of this page brought to us by the Secretary of State of Louisiana. Sportsman's Paradise is on the license plates these days: it's a publicity slogan. I'm adding it though to the list of nicknames at the page Golbez brought up. Bill 15:20, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I argue here because I find it incredibly disrespectful to have edits that have research and reasoning behind them reverted or changed and then instructed, or as you say suggested, that I need to go to a page other then the one at issue to justify my research and reasoning. I also find it disrespectful for an edit with research and reasoning behind it to be reverted or changed in favor of information with little or no research behind it. I offered clear and detailed research and reasoning as to my edits only to have them changed with no explanation as to the sources for the change other than a “cursory search.”
There is no discussion on any of the pages you referred to about what constitutes a nickname. I have no interest in the nicknames of other states. I have no interest in being involved in a project to determine the official nicknames of other states. I know what should be listed on the Louisiana page and I am interested in protecting the edits of a newbee, Blinutne, from being reverted for no good reason.
Nevertheless, the idea that a nickname has to be “official” is ludicrous. This is a good link to an article in a New Orleans weekly paper describing the nickname situation. [3] In my opinion if we are going to include “Pelican State” because it is on the Secretary of State’s Web site and “Sportsman’s Paradise” for the reasons stated above, then “Bayou State” should be included as the former phrase on the plates. Run an all powerful and knowing google on it. They are all sites about Louisiana or a few state parks named after particular bayous. Nolamgm 18:35, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
And since those license plates were adduced as evidence for how official a nickname might be (I'm sort of with NOLAmgm on that part of it, mind you: who cares?), here's a page of Louisiana license plates I just bumped into while looking for something else; notice the many pelicans.... Bill 00:20, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
That is a really great link. It’s missing the two most recent plates however. For the anniversary of the Louisiana Purchase specialty plates were issued. Now that the bicentennial is over, Louisiana has new colored plates with ….you guessed it … a pelican and “Sportsman’s Paradise” displayed. Nolamgm 03:51, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History Section needs work!

As of right now it jumps from the middle of the Civil War to Hurricane Katrina! That's about 140 years... Anyone willing to work on this? I admit I have no expertise on this subject. Bobak 23:30, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. It certainly does. I've been working on the history of Baton Rouge but had to pause in my labors to make a living. I think I'll try to work up a series of survey paragraphs, just an overview. (Anybody else want to join in, please do!) --Michael K. Smith 21:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
No, I don't think Louisiana had any history between the Civil War and Katrina. Article seems to make sense to me.

[edit] Help needed

What are these dishes??
Enlarge
What are these dishes??

The image I just added (see right) is being considered for a Featured Picture. One of the things people want to know is, what are the dishes in the pic? Unfortunately, I've not eaten much creole/cajun food so the only one I can identify is jambalaya. Can anyone else help? Thanks. howcheng {chat} 21:04, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Flattest state" with Delaware and Florida

Having poked around a bit, as given by at least one page online — with the ever-present caveat, of course — the statement was accurate, at least if the flatness of a state is measured by the lowness of its high point; and very likely also if it's measured by the more precise criterion: least difference between high and low point.

There are better criteria but they'd be much harder to quantify: percentage of area with zero gradient, for example. The northern area of Louisiana is in fact rather bumpy hills; to a walker like myself, even 200 feet differential, if repeated (i.e., constantly going up and down hill, even if not very big hills), makes an area something other than flat. By those criteria, it's quite possible Kansas or Iowa or some other Plains state is flatter; Florida almost certainly is; and, what I've seen of it on foot, so is Delaware.

Bill 11:20, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I just find it a rather goofy statement and it was uncited. The article on Kansas states that it "on a large scale is almost perfectly flat." It is also cites and links to the recent study that Kansas is in fact flater than a pancake. I do not beleive that the term "flat" is meant to be used as the anon editor used it here. As you say, Louisiana is rather hilly in the northern part of the state. Nolamgm 21:26, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

  • I have updated the lead paragraph to read "Southeastern" and I removed the NPOV tag. --Bookofsecrets 19:57, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
How is the world is Southern POV? Do not not refer me to Tennessee. Please explain and provide cites here as to why this is disputed and as to why Louisiana is not a southern state before you change it again. And please take off all those tags. This is not a disputed topic or POV. Nolamgm 20:20, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
  • I'll refer you to any place I so desire. In the 21st Century "Southern" is strictly a cultural term. Southeastern is geographical and thus more appropriate in the lead paragraph. I have put the NPOV tag on this article. I will not remove it unless the administrators take a good look at this situation. In my employment I meet folks from all over the world and throughout these United States of America. I've discussed this issue with a great many. Most cannot understand why certain segments of our society cannot let the American Civil War die as a concept and idea. Looking at it from a historic view point is something they are prepared to do and the other has such strong racial overtones they want so part of it. I am merely trying to follow NPOV standards here at Wikipedia. --Bookofsecrets 23:55, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

You're going to need to do an RfC on this, because there's no way this will stand. In the 21st Century, "Southern" can mean lots of things, even in America, and it is NOT strictly a cultural term. You clearly have a bone to pick on this matter, and stop appealing to "NPOV standards". Speaking of unwilling to let the Civil War die... --Golbez 00:04, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

The kind of thing that gives Wikipedia a bad name. Bees in bonnets, weirdnesses — speaking in code and creating an exotic subculture is hardly what an encyclopedia is about! Louisiana is a Southern state, it's the norm in common speech, regardless of the speaker's or hearer's cultural agenda. Might as well avoid speaking of the "English" language, or using "American" as the adjective for "USA", etc. The fact that people will react to "Southern" each with our own baggage shouldn't force us to remove the word. Anyway, this ought to be fertile breeding ground for a few months of argument. Your time, BS, would be better used improving the article.... Bill 01:54, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Southern is also much more geographically correct than Southeastern: Most of Louisiana is west of the Mississippi River. Jon 20:43, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Southern is correct; see Southern United States -- Aaron charles 22:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The organization of subject categories

I realize that the Louisiana article basically follows the blueprint set by the U.S. states wikiproject, but does anyone else find that the article would read better with "History" at the beginning? Also, I believe that, instead of a link to another article with a list of Louisiana colleges and universities, the main page could list those schools itself, perhaps including a wikilink to the article which explicitly deals with the topic. Does anyone agree? Blinutne 03:02, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I do not want to discount your ideas, and agree that in general the Louisiana page still needs work.
History (not at the beginning) - if that's the wiki standard, we should adhere to it. Besides, it reads okay and people can always find the history subhead if they want.
Colleges ans universities (separate) - there are several reasons why it makes sense to keep the list separate: (1) the Louisiana article is already too long and still needs to be trimmed. It's at 38K today and should max out at 32K. I've been moving some stuff out of this article and onto others (e.g., lists) to help bring down the size. (2) lists of items should be maintained in one place, otherwise they are not consistently updated. I can confirm that was the case when I merged some lists out to their respective destinations. (3) all other U.S. states have separate college lists, which also have other related information and explanations. Having said that, I think we could have a small paragraph which introduces the list of colleges that maybe talks about how the Long's built many of the state universities, or how Louisiana has a large number of unversities for a less populated state, etc. Whatever can be attributed. Aaron charles 17:23, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] État de Louisiane

Although, as User:Nunh-huh correctly said, neither English nor French are official languages in Louisiana, it is a fact that both languages are used by the state administration. Of course English is overwhelmingly more used than French, due to the dwindling French speaking community, but French is still used nonetheless, and in French the official name of the state is "État de Louisiane". Here, for example, is an official .gov website that uses the French name "État de Louisiane": [4]. Here is a privacy statement from the Louisiana Treasury in which the name "État de Louisiane" clearly appears: [5]. What's interesting here is that the privacy statement is not written in standard French but in Louisiana French (they wrote "cliquez icitte" (click here), which is Louisiana French, instead of "cliquez ici" which is standard French). The name of the state, however, is the same in both standard and Louisiana French. And here is an official form from the Louisiana Treasury written in French and containing the name "État de Louisiane": [6]. Therefore, the French and English names are both perfectly legitimate at the top of the infobox. Hardouin 17:43, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Just because a state issues documents in a given language doesn't mean we should include the name of the state in that language as a title in the English Wikipedia! The State of New York issues documents in which it calls itself "Estado de Nueva York". It doesn't mean that "Estado de Nueva York" belongs at the top of New York's infobox: it just means that the government is making an effort to communicate with its citizens who don't speak English. - Nunh-huh 21:29, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Thats 4 reverts by User:Nunh-huh. Isn't there some rule about that? Nolamgm 01:13, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Check out 3RR. You're not supposed to make 4 reverts in any 24 hour period. - Nunh-huh 01:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Your right. Reverting the same issue 5 different times on 5 different users by one user is ok. My bad. Nolamgm 02:29, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Feel free to make a formal request for comments on the issue of whether the name of Louisiana in French should appear in the infobox. Or feel free to make a persuasive argument here. "Appears on some signs" doesn't quite do it. - Nunh-huh 02:43, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

According to official language, an “official language is a language that is given a privileged legal status in a state, or other legally-defined territory.” Under Louisiana law, a contract is only legally binding if executed in either English or French. La. R.S. 1:51 (2006). A contract executed in any other language will not be enforced by a court in Louisiana. This is certainly a “privileged legal status.” Furthermore, French is required to be taught is all public schools in the state. La. R.S. 17:272 (2006). Legal notices may also be printed in French. La. R.S. 43:204 (2006). While a weak argument may be made that this would make French only a minority language and not an official language, the following should also be pointed out. All welcome signs on the interstate in Louisiana are in English and French. [7] Kathleen Blanco, the current governor took the oath of office in both French and English. As did Edwin Edwards. From our own definition, French, as well as English, must be considered an official language in Louisiana. Nolamgm 03:25, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

You've misunderstood - or are intentionally misconstruing - what that article says. - Nunh-huh 03:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I quoted directly from our own article on official language. How is this "intentionally misconstruing?" Nolamgm 03:52, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
It may not be intentional misconstruing; it may be misunderstanding. As I said. Ut could also be that our article needs to be changed if it is misleading people to believe that a recognized minority language is "official". I suspect you are misundertanding the meaning of "privileged" in the first sentence. - Nunh-huh 03:55, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
According to Wiktionary a privilege is "a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor; a right or immunity not enjoyed by others or by all; special enjoyment of a good, or exemption from an evil or burden; a prerogative; advantage; franchise." [8] French and English clearly have an advantage over other languages in Louisiana. They are Louisiana's offical languages. Nolamgm 04:09, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
As I thought, your issue is the definition of privilege. An official language is one that has been so designated by the involved entity, rather than one for which one can construct a convoluted argument of "privilege" by carefully selecting your preferred definition. I'll be happy to clarify that in our article. - Nunh-huh 04:13, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Here's Google's definition (note how it quotes back a former, and superior, version of the article in question!)

Definitions of official language on the Web:

 Language recognized by statute within a given country. Canada's two official languages are English and French. http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/lo-ol/pubs/census2001/9_e.cfm

An official language is something that is given a unique status in the countries, states, and other territories. It is typically the language used in a nation's legislative bodies, though the law in many nations requires that government documents be produced in other languages as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_language

- Nunh-huh 04:21, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely unbelievable. Now that you have changed "official language" to reflect your definition I guess Louisiana does not have one. The only thing that “turns out to have confused someone” was that a “persuasive argument” might actually work on here. Nolamgm 04:57, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

You are again mistaken. Louisiana never had an official language. Our "official language" article simply makes that clear now. - Nunh-huh 05:54, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I will concede that Louisiana has never designated either French or English as "official" as it has an official dog, cat, and just about everything else. However much like English at the federal level, English and French are the de facto official languages of Louisiana. For all the reasons listed above, Louisiana clearly has de facto, it not de jure, offical languages. If this is not true then English must be removed from the United States' info box as well. Nolamgm 13:28, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Don't be silly. This is the English encyclopedia. That's why we give names of things in English. It has nothing to do with "official" languages. - Nunh-huh 14:40, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I think the issue is getting muddied over the "official language." I didn't check all 50 states, but, if memory serves me, the only states that do not observe the "State of (everyday name)" are the commonwealths of Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania and Virginia and the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations. These designations are written into law. There needs to be some kind of official designation, other than purely decorative instances or just a mere translation (Estado de Nueva York as mentioned above as a prime example). —Twigboy 15:16, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

When Louisiana was incorporated as a state in 1812, French was the only language used in the state: the governor spoke French, judges spoke French, all state and city officials spoke only French. The civil law of Louisiana is still written in French (it was never translated into English), and every lawyer in Louisiana has to know French if he or she wants to use the law books. So if anything, Louisiana is a constituently French speaking state where English has been "tolerated" for some time now. Lol. More seriously, on Wikipedia de facto official languages are always included on top of infoboxes. In Italy, for instance, Italian is not de jure the official language of the country. Nowhere in the Italian constitution does it say that Italian is the official language of the country. Italian is only de facto the official language of the coutry, same as English and French are de facto the official languages of Louisiana. Yet the name "Repubblica Italiana" appears on top of Italy's infobox, so likewise it makes sense to have the English and French names on top of the Louisiana infobox. Hardouin 22:03, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RfC

This looks like a cogent argument for including "État de Louisiane." Let them in: what harm could they do? Durova 23:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Place the English term first due to the English language's privileged position within the United States of America (the dominant government), but give the French name a position as well, due to its secondary but still privileged position within Louisiana (as well as recognizing its unique history). Captainktainer * Talk 05:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] clarification

The state of Louisiana, United States of America, is not French in the way that Quebec in Canada has been influenced; Louisiana has French things. 00:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC) beadtot

[edit] Orleans Parish Sheriff

http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/byinst.asp?sessionid=06rs&billtype=SB&billno=645

My grammar sucks, but I wanted to at least put the information in there. Orleans Parish sheriff's departments will be consolidated in 2010. Senator Mount's bill also makes other changes (that I didn't talk about).

[edit] Louisana an "ethnic autonomous region"?

Louisiana is listed at Ethnic autonomous regions - according to the talk page an 'ethnic autonomous region' specifically for the "French" ethnic group. That seems to me to be nonsense: comments at the talk page there, please.Paul111 12:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

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