Talk:Lothar de Maizière

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My main concern is that Lothar de Maizière needs to link to Helmut Kohl so that readers who have been following the East German heads of government infobox can easily rejoin the Chancellor of Germany infobox at the Kohl article without having to search for that article. PMA 7 July 2005 09:39 (UTC)

I think that is a very worthwhile edit, thanks. --Isolani 7 July 2005 10:08 (UTC)

That reminds me of the pro-Soviet POV pusher who wanted to have Mikhail Gorbachev as "predecessor" in the President of Russia succession box in the Boris Yeltsin article last year. Just as the Soviet Union was abolished and there was no successor to Gorbachev (definitely not Yeltsin), the GDR was abolished and there was no successor to Maizière (definitely not Kohl). The Federal Republic of Germany is a completely different state, and it did only reannex the territory of the abolished GDR, the GDR did not became part of Germany. Also, please stop changing the correct name of the country into a colloquialism.

Although I agree with you with regards to the use of colloquialisms, it is simply not the case that the GDR 'abolished' itself with its territory then being 'annexed' by the FRG. The Reunification Treaty, signed by the then still functioning GDR, speaks of a 'unification' not an 'annexation'. The word 'annexation' implies something of a (hostile?) takeover and is POV. Israel 'annexed' the Golan Heights, in spite of the views of the Syrian Government. The US annexed the frmr Kingdom of Hawai under a thin layer of legal veneer.

Because of the GDR Government under de Mazière was democratically legitimized and signed the treaty, with the Volkskammer opting for integration within the existing structures of the FRG it is, imo, not legitimate and POV to speak of an annexation, I have therefore removed your reference to annexation and would invite you to read the articles concerning the German Reunification and the Two plus Four treaty as well as the text of the treaty itself.

I`m in doubt with regards to Kohl being 'successor' of de Maizière, a reference to Kohl being head of government of the united Germany would be a good idea, he is not a successor in the strict sense of the word, but the article would now leave the reader with the idea that there is no continuity between the GDR and the current united FRG, which is false.

I hope you will leave my edits intact.

--Isolani 8 July 2005 20:20 (UTC)

If you read de:Deutschland, the infobox of the article speaks of a "Wiedervereinigung mit dem Territorium der DDR" (reunification with the territory of the GDR). Yes, the government of Germany and the government of GDR signed a reunification treaty, but formally, then, the GDR abolished itself and its territory became part of the Federal Republic of Germany. There is no continuity between GDR and Germany. In fact, the GDR was treated as illegal organisation, its leaders were brought to trial and sentenced to prison, and all professors and other higher state employees had to reapply for their positions. Many of the GDR grades (e.g. in law) were not recognized by German authorities.

---

re: "colloquialisms" - the far more common name for the GDR in the English speaking world is East Germany - just as North Korea and South Korea instead of "DPRK" and "ROK" - there are plenty of pre-1990 encyclopedia's which have their article at East Germany rather than German Democratic Republic. I hope Isolani can see what i am trying to say and that User 83 can as well. PMA 9 July 2005 04:17 (UTC)

• I`m afraid the GDR/FRG east-west thing is going to flare up again; GDR and FRG are the widely accepted state names, using 'east- and west germany' is going to be a source of confusing statements such as saying that 'east joined with west to form a united germany etc.' , pls refrain from deleting references to GDR and FRG, --Isolani 11:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)