Talk:Lost (season 1)/Archive01

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This archive page covers approximately the dates between October 20, 2004 and Mar 31, 2005.

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Contents

Removed from the text

Sun's father is an important gangster, and Jin was forced to work for him in order to marry Sun.

While a number of fans have argued that this is the case, very little has been revealed to prove this: Sun's father is apparently very wealthy & powerful, & Jin was involved in some kind of violent episode while at work for him -- but there are no clues that Sun's father is involved in a Korean version of the yakuza. As with so much in Lost, we are given only some pieces of the puzzle & are forced to fill in the still extensive gaps. -- llywrch 05:43, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

As there is a discussion in the show's main category about whether Jack actually is a doctor, I altered the wording of the "Tabula Rasa" description to say that he is *apparently* a doctor. Hedgey42 07:50, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I was reading on wiki just yesterday and on the first page of LOST under THE NUMBERS it had a theory a very interesting theory that is gone now i'm totally confused about what happened and why it was removed.can anyone lead me to Rousseau's Genetic Mirror Theory? 70.177.109.183

DeuX ex Machina?

A thought occurred to me, which revisits this topic (and why I'm top-posting): the correct phrase which originated in Greek stagecraft is "Deus Ex Machina" that translates (from Latin) to "God from (or out of) the Machine," a sort of supernatural intervention which ties up plot points, often a kind of cop-out. Deus and Deux are not homophones, synonyms or common misspellings. The first properly pronounced has the same "day" sound as deity should have; the second is French, pronounced like "duh"

However, the episode could have actually been called "Deux Ex Machina" -- which would be a linguistic hodgepodge: Deux is "two" in French, and thus seems very appropriate, considering the French scientific team Rousseau was a part of, and the repeating message including numbers in French. Thus, a rough punnish translation would be "Two from the machine" -- which would make a great deal of sense: the two, Locke and Boone, discover the airplane (a machine) by way of a mysterious vision (from a Deus?), and Locke finally gets a sign (the light) that there's something inside the hatch (yet another machine) which may unlock the entire story. So I'm now falling on the side that "Deux" would be the clever-er way of titling the episode. (To support the suggestion below that it may have been the original title, and possible been changed.)

To add to the confusion, IMDB, does list the episode as Deux, while ABC reports it as "Deus" --LeFlyman 02:21, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't this be deus ex machina?? Aknorals 12:03, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No. It's the correct spelling according to all the sources I've seen. Deux ex Machina is also an alternative spelling (common misspelling) of Deus ex Machine, FYI. It could also be play on the spelling. Virtually every episode title can be taken literally... "Walkabout" for instance was the name of Locke's expedition type thing in Australia, but oddly enough we found that Locke could also "walk about" when the man was technically handicapped. With that said it's possible the episode will 1) Have Locke finally open the hatch revealing island mysteries OR 2) "Deux" is French...perhaps things are revealed by the "French woman". K1Bond007 17:10, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)
So I guess I should make a redirect for deux ex machina to deus ex machina... I thought it was a typo... also the deus ex machina page should list this as an alternate spelling. -Aknorals 02:20, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The ABC site says 'Dues Ex Machina", which seems weird, since I have never seen it spelled like that. Maybe a typo? Thunderbrand 20:24, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
Something must be wrong at ABC. Both tvtome.com and epguides.com lists the name of the episode as Deux. So what's correct? The fact that ABC spells it "Dues" and not "Deus" makes me think that "Deux" is correct. :) --Elisson 20:28, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
tvtome lists it as deus ex machina. deux and dues are both incorrect. the guide on my tivo/sat box even said deus ex machina. W00d 02:05, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
They must have just changed it, I checked earlier today and it was Deux. K1Bond007 02:40, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
Odd. Until we get another source I guess we should go with Dues since thats what ABC says. Could be a typo.. could be a double meaning. Who knows. K1Bond007 01:02, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)

tvtome has "Deus". If you search the net, you'll find "Deus" used in non-Lost contexts: [1], [2], etc. all use "Deus". I think there's little to no question about it... Cburnett 06:51, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You're right that "deus ex machina" (Latin for "God from the machine") is the correct spelling for the time-worn theatrical expression. "Deux" is not an "alternative spelling" for "Deus". However, the question is whether the episode title includes an intentional misspelling to create a pun on "dues" (as in paying one's dues) or "deux" (French for "two"). Our only sources for this information seem to be people who are easily confused by words they're unfamiliar with, and so they try to "correct" them or they just misspell them and move on. If I were a betting man I'd say it's probably supposed to be "Deus". I hope we don't have to wait for the DVD set to settle this. Ahkond 13:35, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I emailed ABC to see if I can get an answer... Cburnett 15:18, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
"Deux Ex Machina" returns 14,100 responses on Google, which either means you're wrong or it's a very common misspelling which is virtually same thing. It should be noted that a number of these on the first few pages are references to Lost. The changes were merely going with the sources we had, which at one point were all Deux. Now some are Deux, some are "Dues" and others are Deus. It doesn't help that one misspelling turns out to be a common French word which is an important aspect of the show, and another misspelling is another English word, both coupled with the fact that most if not all episodes of this show's titles are a play on words. K1Bond007 17:05, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
You'll note that of those 14,100 responses, if you remove the lost and lyrics (there is a song named that) hits then you only get 7,310. Switch it from deux to deus and you get 225,000 hits. Of the 225,000 hits you'll find the first several are refering to the latin phrase while of the 7,310 hits they are mixed with music sites (seems to be the primary usage), french sites, newsgroup postings. Don't apply google blindly... Cburnett 18:57, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
You seem to ignore the fact (as K1Bond007 says) that many of the episode titles are plays with words and meanings. As both "Deus ex Machina" and "Deux ex Machina" (and to a lesser degree "Dues ex Machina") are highly possible titles in that aspect, we can't be 100% sure that "Deus" is the correct just because that is the way the short phrase is spellt. --Elisson 19:13, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Blindly? Even with those cuts you made, 7000 is still a damn large number, hence a possible common misspelling as I've said, but this is really moot. I don't care. My main argument here is that the spelling may be a play on words, which you continue to ignore. It's currently at "Deus" because in all likelyhood, it's probably just a typo, but when 3 credible sources (one official) all say something different, we're not 100% sure of any spelling. I just read on a fan site that the original spelling was indeed "Deux", but was changed to "Deus", but I haven't seen this confirmed anywhere. K1Bond007 19:49, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
Given that the episode titles are often given to irreverence, puns and snarkiness ("Whatever the case may be", "All the best cowboys have daddy issues", "Born to run"), and some are imprecise ("House of the Rising Sun" and "...In Translation" are possible references to japanese concepts, but deal with the korean characters Sun and Jin), it is possible that this misspelling is intentional for some kind of pun or intentional imprecision. Still, if someone has contacted ABC, that would be the most authoritative answer. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 18:03, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)
While it was possible, most sources have been changed to "Deus". So this ends the story on this. K1Bond007 18:16, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

Air dates

Anyone have the original air date for each episode? --Pmsyyz 22:53, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It's Jack Shephard not Shepard

It's Jack Shephard not Shepard. Please do not change back. If you doubt this, then check this page: [3]

Move

Since Lost was picked up for a second season, I believe we should move this page to Episodes of Lost (Season 1). Anyone disagree or have an alternative? K1Bond007 02:37, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me, but what about having subsections? BRO_co03 04:13, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
What do you mean by subsections? By the away, at some point we're going to have to move the list of episodes off the main page like other major multiple seasoned television shows do, I was thinking of just moving the table to here with links to Season 1, Season 2 (as previously shown above), etc. after moving the contents of this page to the new page.

Basically organized like this:

  • Lost (2004 television series)
    • Episodes of Lost
      • Episodes of Lost (Season 1)
      • Episodes of Lost (Season 2)
    • Characters of Lost

K1Bond007 04:27, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that would work good. Thunderbrand 14:23, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

What about List of Lost episodes like most other TV shows? User:Cburnett

There is a List of Lost episodes. --BRO_co03 18:41, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
At some point that list that I believe you're refering to would have to be moved. Shows with only a season of episodes is usually ok, but shows with more than one normally get moved to their own page so that the page isn't just a giant list of episodes. "Episodes of Lost" or List of Lost episodes, doesn't matter to me, I just used "Episodes of Lost in my example because it's already there, no real reason to make it a redirect (after all links to it have been corrected). K1Bond007 18:46, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

Journey

Since no one seems to want to, I've gone ahead and added the 'special' episode airing on April 27th. [4] --Etaonish 15:45, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

Its just a clip show. I would add this to the top of the page along with an episode count instead of making it an actual section. K1Bond007 16:58, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

Break up into one article per episode

Too much of a good thing?

The episode summary for Whatever the Case May Be is considerably longer than all the others. I'm not criticizing the quality of the entry, but I think it's too long for this article. Such text might go better in an in-depth Lost website rather than a wikipedia article where people would just want a concise summary. Maybe we could trim it down to be commensurate with the other summaries we've got.

If we're not careful this article will get too big by the end of the season and will be hard to navigate and too time-consuming to read. Bigger is not always better.

Just a suggestion ...

Ahkond 21:46, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I had the same thought upon seeing it. I've got it copied over to a text file on my PC and will try to whittle it down in the next day or two. I also cut down the summary I wrote for the most recent episode. --Hedgey42 08:28, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia --Pmsyyz 17:47, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Reading around, I find Jimbo supports (see m:Wiki is not paper) the idea that an episode is worthy of its own article. As such, I'm putting forth the move to break this up into one article per episode. Opinions? Cburnett 04:02, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

  • I would probably be against this. Maybe like season finales or season premiers, but not every episode. I don't see how each one is "worthy". Thunderbrand 04:08, May 4, 2005 (UTC)
  • I honestly disagree. I really don't see a problem doing it like this and I much prefer it this way since more people tend to contribute to an article like this rather than 20-something different ones. K1Bond007 04:28, May 4, 2005 (UTC)
  • I think that a per-season break-out would be appropriate, but not a separate article page for each episode. IMO, the episode pages should be summaries, rather than transcription of everything that happens. However, I would suggest that there might be some additional line items per episode section, which I'll address below. --LeFlyman 02:24, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Change of mind: Now in favor of splitting up. As each episode's section has expanded, I think that after the season finale, it would be appropriate to break them out into separate articles-- particularly as future episodes tend to refer/change events of previous ones, it might be worthwhile to track the plot developments more in depth. --LeFlyman 17:00, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Additions to episodic sections

Lost episode
“Pilot (Part 1 & 2)”
Episode no. Season 1
Episode 01/02
Guest star(s) Fredric Lehne (Marshall)
Dale Radomski (Tourniquet Man)
Greg Grunberg (Pilot)
Writer(s) J.J. Abrams
Damon Lindelof
Jeffrey Lieber
Director J.J. Abrams
Production no. 101/102
Original airdate September 22 and
September 29, 2004
Episode chronology
← Previous Next →
"--" ""Tabula Rosa""

Ok, to follow up on my suggestion below, using the wiki infobox episode format, we might split out the episodes to individual articles, and include a side box, such as this: (at right)

--LeFlyman 16:39, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

I propose that additional information be included at the top of each episode summary, as line items:

  1. episode number before each entry
  2. the name(s) of the writer(s);
  3. the director;
  4. A special note pointing out if there is a first appearance of a particular mystery elements or characters, such as "The Numbers", "The Hatch", "Ethan Rom", "Rosseau", etc.

This would help skimming the episode guide. Other ideas? --LeFlyman 02:43, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

I think waiting for the season to conclude would be a wise decision before doing anything. Besides, I'd rather see an infobox more specific to Lost. K1Bond007 17:12, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
If you do that, it would make sense to include a section for "Flashback(s)". --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 05:11, May 19, 2005 (UTC)
I'm not familiar with how the wiki Infobox format is set up, but I agree that Flashback would be appropriate. On a semi-related note, I just noticed that the numbering of the episodes on the page is off-- the pilot was split into ep 1 and ep 2, thus there were 25 episodes this season (not counting the special) -- would someone please fix this? --LeFlyman 02:58, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
The table of centents isn't meant to be a correct numbering. We grouped pilot together and we grouped parts 2&3 of Exodus. Not a big deal. K1Bond007 03:24, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Did anyone notice...?

The television in "... In Translation":

In this episode when Jin is first delivering the "message" at the man's house, on the TV it looked like it showed a handcuffed Hurley being led into a car. Then in Numbers, Hurley was arrested after a fire broke out in the house he bought. Did anyone else seem to notice this? BRO_co03 20:45, Mar 3, 2005 (UTC)

Hurley was certianly on the tv, but I'm not sure if he's being handcuffed in it. I doubt it, I think it's just him walking or something, but I would have to re-watch it. --Aknorals 23:38, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Well it looked like he had is hands behind his back and someone was leading him into the car. --BRO_co03 00:39, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
That isn't the case. I watched the scene again. He isn't handcuffed and he even opens the car door himself. --Elisson 20:28, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Well I didn't record it so I can't check back. But if you say so, I believe you. --BRO_co03 04:50, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
I don't have the recording anymore, but on TWoP one of the korean speaking board-posters said that the korean text on the screen while hurley is there is just a news notice about someone winning a huge lottery prize. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 17:59, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

Did anyone see that in Sayid's flashback, during "The Greater Good", that the one guy has playing Half-Life? I just thought it was cool, and that the writers or whoever just didn't makeup some generic name like "Aliens Attack 7". Thunderbrand 04:24, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah I noticed, I actually laughed because of the whole controversy about violent games inspiring people.. or whatever.. :) K1Bond007 04:40, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

Questions/comments about changes to summaries

Rousseau leaving the Black Rock

I think I might have added a piece of information to the wrong episode. In which episode did Rousseau leave the group at the Black Rock? Authr 09:30, 2005 May 27 (UTC)

I'm prety sure it was at the beginning of Exodus Part 2. Thunderbrand 15:52, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Exodus, Pt 3: The Others

I see that the identification of the boat of strangers as "The Others" has been removed. They were confirmed as "The Others" by Harold Perrineau on ABC's "Jimmy Kimmel Live" show on May 25. --LeFlyman 21:02, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Question: When Kate threw the dynamite into the hole that Locke was being dragged into and black smoke comes out of the ground, did it look to anybody else like the smoke formed some sort of shape and then kind of flew away? It didn't look natural. RickK 08:25, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

Dunno...I just saw it was a black cloud. Thunderbrand 14:16, May 29, 2005 (UTC)
No, it's NOT 'just a black cloud', and this is HIGHLY CRUCIAL to understanding what the "security system is, and, in fact, WHAT THE WHOLE ISLAND ID HIDING. The black smoke Kate and Jack see before Locke gets attacked moves sideways and at high speed, not to mention that it does a curve up and then down in an instant, impossible for any kind of smoke... then, when the dynamite blows up underground, the 'smoke' not only goes up, but it spirals for a moment ALL in unison, then goes away and down to a SINGLE POINT back in the jungle, disappearing, totally inverse to what ordinary smoke does. This is why there's so much commotion all over the net about the 'monster' being much more than 'just smoke', maybe some kind of futuristic technology, paranormal manifestations, etc. and that is why I consider it EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that it is said to put at least that the smoke behaves "in a bizarre, almost supernatural way." That's what I'll do right now, thanks! Kreachure 20:45, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
I know this topic hasn't been touched on for a while, but there is something definately something funny about the black smoke - see [5] for proof. Squidward2602 18:45, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Looong summaries

The summaries for Pilot and Exodus seem way longer than the other episodes, the end result is that the article looks very uneven. I think we should trim the summaries down; the shot-by-shot recap seems more like twop territory than ours. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:45, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, they are pretty long. Maybe making an seperate article for each? A while ago, a proposal was put up to have each episode its own article. Originally, I was against it, but it seems every TV show has an article for 1 episode (e.g. The Simpsons and South Park.) So if there was another proposal to make an article for each episode, I would be for it. Thunderbrand 22:47, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
At this point, we should either split them into separate articles or even out the summaries (shortening some, expanding some). Many of them could do with an extended synopsis, which is probably better in separate articles. KramarDanIkabu 22:17, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
While seperate articles I'm sure has an appeal, I think a better idea at this point is to trim out all the fancruft before having to come to this decision. I read through a few episodes earlier and I thought it was horrible how much detail this page goes into. I know a lot of information here is necessary to explain some of the episodes or whatever, but I don't think we need to mention every detail and every moment of every character's life and interaction with one another. Lets cut this page down first, get rid of all the excess and unneeded information and then come back to the question of whether we need an episode per page. K1Bond007 04:30, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree here, I don't entirely like the separate articles for each episode ideas either. I think we can take no more than two paragraphs for each episode. I still think some of these need to be expanded because they really don't provide much information. KramarDanIkabu 04:35, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
I like a general paragraph limit on each episode (with slight leeway given to the pilot and finale due to the double-episode). We can decide that major plot and theme elements can stay, and a short section on special references is probably a good idea too. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:34, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Summary format

I am hoping to get around to new summaries soon that will hopefully be more balanced out, though it will likely take a while. Anyway, what I want to ask is what kind of format we should use for the summaries as far as flashbacks go. Should they be integrated into the plot summary where they appear in the show, or should a separate paragraph be lain out for flashbacks. I ask because I believe that it is crucial to the plot of the second season premiere that Desmond be introduced in the flashback before in the hatch. What are your opinions on the matter? KramarDanIkabu (talk) 05:38, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Black Rock

Hi there, Can anyone tell me what the "Black Rock" is? I searched Wiki, but with no luck. It was first mentioned when Sayid follows the metal wire from the beach to her hut. Thanks, 17:50, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

The Black Rock is the beached ship that Danielle leads them to, where they find the Dynamite. I believe the first reveal of the Black Rock was in Exodus Part 1. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 17:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Why didn't anyone notice?

Why didn't anyone notice that some anonymous IP made numerous vandalism and POV's to "Tabula Rasa" for a days without anyone noticing? I have left 165.21.154.116 a {{Test3}} on their talk page, and made sure Administrator intervention against vandalism know about it. Kilo-Lima 16:28, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

  • With the number of edits to this large article it is difficult to monitor them all. I would question whether this is vandalism or simply a new user not realizing what sort of language is appropriate for wikipedia. I have continued to remove the last few bits of POV in the section. Jackqu7 17:29, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
    • OK, maybe I was too harsh, but still the article was fine before the User decided to edit it. Thanks for finding the other POV's and removing them :) -- Kilo-Lima 11:45, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Geisha behaviour

When the Koreans are in the airport and the blonde woman complains about her submissive conduct, doesn't she says "it's like a scene from Memories of a Geisha"? If so, we could link to it in this article.

It's Memoirs of a Geisha, not "Memories", but yes. --Pentasyllabic 00:14, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

DVD Special Features

At the end of this article, could there perhaps be a section on the Season 1 DVD, what kind of special features it has, and what insights regarding the first season are revealed? I'm in Australia and we don't get the DVD for another month, so I'm curious. Frob 01:36, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Just wondering, but is there a deleted scene from "Homecoming" in which Locke and Ethan fight each other? In "Lost: The Chronicles", there is a picture of Locke and Ethan in "a life or death struggle".- JustPhil 11:33, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Not that it matters, but no, there isn't such a deleted scene. 209.189.130.17 20:34, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Quotes

Here's a job for someone who can be bothered: make the punctuation+quoting consistent in the article. Use either British (closing quotes then punctuation) or US (vice-versa), but choose one and apply it throughout. mat_x 18:48, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Oh! I had no idea British punctuation differed from ours! I am strongly in favor of punctuation then closing quotes. But, then again, I am American!
Can we come to any consensus on this? To make it easy, I propose the American style, simply because it is an American-produced series. If I was editing Absolutely Fabulous or Casualty, I'd propose British punctuation. --Danflave 01:55, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I didn't know that they were different... I prefer the closing quotes then punctuation style, because I think the quotes are in an "inner level" in the sentence than the punctuation, and therefore should be closed first - HTML-style. But that's just me. -Roma_emu 15:01, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

This is a very long article!

I would also agree in breaking up the page into seperate episodes. it is extremely long, and reading through it all at once would take a long time. For example, can you imagine having the Simpsons' episode list on one article. It would be so big!--M Johnson 08:43, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

  • But this is Lost, not the Simpsons. Because of the linear nature of the show, where one story is being told over several episodes, it makes sense to have one article per season. Frob 03:41, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Soccer team?

In Exodus 2&3, I don't believe it's part of a soccer team that Hurley drives past in the airport. The shirts look more like rugby (or Aussie football?) shirts. Can anyone figure out exactly what they were? mat_x 16:10, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Clean-up

Episodes of Lost (season 1) -- article is far too long and needs to be trimmed using a synoptic style rather than an all-encompassing description of each episode. Jim62sch 16:02, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking of how Family Guy has their episodes set up. Thoughts? Morgan695 00:14, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
There have been discussions about this before on both this talk page and season two's talk page. I think the article is fine the way it is. Having a synoptic episode guide would not work because this show is so complex you have to include intricate details about the episode so that later episodes in the season make sense. Jtrost 00:18, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I've only recently registered, but I've been a Sub-Editor on the BBC's h2g2 site for a while. I'm a bit wary of treading on anyone's toes at the moment, but I've been through each Season 1 synopsis and tidied up any grammar and repetition. I've hopefully stayed respectful to US spellings and punctuation. However, some synopses do appear to be longer than others and contain far too much detail. Having said that, I think there needs to be some sort of consensus on how much is too much. I don't want to look at anything to do with Season 2 yet, if I can avoid it, as it has yet to arrive in the UK and I'd like to enjoy the series as it's shown, if possible. Chris 42 23:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Those in depth synopses should be moved to their own articles and the list section moved to List of Lost episodes, this is the accepted standard for television programmes on wikipedia. See List of South Park episodes, List of Star Trek: The Next Generation episodes, Cartman Gets an Anal Probe for examples. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Television for guidelines. I am going to start moving pages in a few days. Discordance 21:27, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, those examples look much more sensible. As a newbie, I didn't want to go in and start removing excessive content wholesale, and this will hopefully be an acceptable solution. Chris 42 21:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I have created List of Lost episodes anyone interested please add brief plot summaries of about a sentence or two. Discordance 15:44, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I am not entirely comfortable with this radical change -- there was no consensus on this, and none of the regular Lost editors were made aware of this decision (as far as I know). Please see my Talk on the main Lost page. Danflave 16:41, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

There has not been consensus either way yet many users are still concerned about the length of this article. Something needs to be done and no compromises have been reached. What I am doing follows the general format of television episodes on wiki Discordance 18:05, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. I think the vast majority of users are relatively unconcerned about the length of this article. I wanted to catch up on LOST as I had not watched it at all until last week and was thrilled that this nugget of an article was on the Wikipedia. The show is extremely complex and even after reading all of these summaries I'm still somewhat confused. To trim it down further would render the article useless... you might as well VFD. AlanzoB (UTC)

The discussion has changed somewhat its over on the Lost (TV series) talk page now Discordance 01:19, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

NOTE: Please see/contribute to the extended discussion on this topic at Talk:Lost (TV series)#Episode Guide —LeFlyman 01:22, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Captain Hook

I've removed a trivia note about Captain Hook's ship (from Peter Pan) being named the Black Rock. In my copy of the novel Peter Pan by JM Barrie (ISBN 0-684-16611-9) the ship is named the Jolly Roger (p. 90). If the ship was called the Black Rock in some other medium (e.g. film, musical ...?) please provide a reference. Ahkond 02:56, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

The "Priest"

In which episode do Locke and Boone find the "priest" carrying nigerian money and a gun? Was that Deus Ex Machina? That's pretty important, so I think we should add it. I just need clarification on the episode. Also, he should be on the list of "former inhabitents of the island," right? → evin290 02:06, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I think that it is already included in that list. But under his real name - discovered in Season 2. 212.36.8.100 11:24, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Rename to List of Lost episodes (season x)

A cursory glance of Category:Lists of television series episodes shows that the majority use "List of" format so I propose renaming to:

With List of Lost episodes containing the usual list information (e.g., List of South Park episodes or List of Star Trek: The Next Generation episodes) and List of Lost episodes (season X) containg detailed episode information (or deleting them upon making each episode it's own article). Regardless of the details, "Episodes of Lost" should be renamed. Cburnett 17:53, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's not exactly a list, per se... its the episode summaries themselves. As we have not reached a consensus on whether episode synopses should be separated from the episode names, use of "list" would not be appropriate for what we have here. If in the future, the individual episodes do get separated, then I could see us having a set of list pages as you suggest. —LeflymanTalk 22:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
If that's the case, then it shouldn't be in Category:Lists of television series episodes. It's either a list or it isn't. Wrong section, but I don't see what the problem is on making one episode per article. Jimbo has been quoted as saying that even every episode of Simpsons should get it's own article (but to shreds if I could remember where I saw that). Cburnett 00:25, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Again, what we have now is not a list of episodes. It's a summary of episodes. Please review some of the previous discussions on the topic at Talk:Lost (TV series). There's already a List of Lost episodes page which hasn't gotten consensus to develop. If you'd like to try to develop the consensus (and rally editors) to split the episodes into individual articles, please feel free, but do expect some built-in opposition from long-term editors. See my note to Discordance who recently proposed the same thing.—LeflymanTalk 01:42, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Just found the quote from jimbo Wikipedia_talk:Centralized_discussion/Television_episodes#A_relevant_quote_from_Jimbo. I'm not too fussed how people organise the lost episodes but i will be developing the list of page regardless Discordance 02:18, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

  • That's not a "quote from Jimbo" about episodes (as claimed above.) What he said was, "I agree with this one completely" regarding "No size limits." See the discussion on MetaWiki Wiki is not paper. Just because Jimbo might agree with a statement made 2-3 years ago, that does not necessarily mean it must be implemented immediately here. As great as he is, Jimbo is not a deity, and his utterances are not akin to papal infallibility. —LeflymanTalk 03:00, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

In fact this seems to be the consensus now Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Television episodes on a rough policy, so its up to the lost editors to decide whether theyre up for splitting stuff out which they dont seem to be. Discordance 02:27, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

  • Actually, the Consensus (as of November 2005) is "that not every episode is worthy of inclusion." Further, the Proposed policy wording says, "it may not be a good idea to create small articles on every episode of a television show." So there are arguments contrary to what has been suggested above. I'm playing devil's advocate here, because in truth, I am in favor of having individual articles on Lost episodes, but I also want us to be accurate as to our reasoning and to follow what is being done elsewhere. We have many long-term editors here who would blanch at the notion of having to deal with so many new articles. —LeflymanTalk 03:00, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

There are counter-arguments yes but overall it seems agreed that the pages should evolve from a season summary to individual articles when the season summary is full of good information and getting far too long. I'm not going to pressure anyone into doing this and its their choice when they do, im just pointing out its something they should be thinking about. As far as im concerned its not about whether they should do it but when theyre ready. Discordance 13:05, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Now we have two lists of the same episodes. Something will have to be done. -The monkeyhate 21:18, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Delete this Page

LOST is getting really big, and it's only stupid to keep the episodes listed like this. They should be like they are in List_of_Lost_episodes. --Muhaidib 03:54, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Check the discussion page... it's all explained there... NowotnyPL 12:02, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Formatting

The show's format, with a great number of flashbacks interspacing events on the island, makes keeping the flow of text smooth a b***h. I propose that we use ordinary text for the latter but italics or the rare underlining for the former. Any objections? --Kizor 18:44, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Lost (TV series) and review the discussion we've already had on episode guides. If you think that there is a problem with "flow" feel free to copyedit this page, however using an excessive amount of underlines or italics violates the manual of style guidelines. Jtrost (T | C | #) 19:44, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I read the last archive page and the TOCs of a couple more and couldn't find a discussion on this particular subject. Can you be a bit more specific since those pages are FULL of spoilers and the series isn't even halfway through the first season here yet?
I do feel that there's a problem. The descriptions bounce back and forth between flashback and island, sometimes not even indicating it when they switch. The page needs as efficient a way as possible of telling them apart. The most immediately obvious and space-conserving one would be italics or underlining. As for the Manual of Style, I consider it what it is - a guideline, to be used for when no special conditions apply - but won't go against it wantonly. --21:12, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Here's a sample from episode "Raised by Another" in three different ways. Can I ask for your opinion on what works best? I honestly feel #2 does. --Kizor 21:12, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler warning: Plot and/or ending details follow.

1. Original

In a flashback, Claire takes a pregnancy test with the assistance of her boyfriend, Thomas, and it’s positive. Thomas reassures her that everything will be fine and they’ll be good parents. Claire goes to a psychic who knows she’s pregnant, but refuses to tell Claire what he “saw”. One day when Thomas comes home, he leaves Claire, saying that he’s not ready for the responsibility.

While conducting his census, Hurley talks to Ethan Rom, who seems concerned about giving his information to Hurley. Jack suggests to Claire that she wasn't attacked and offers her a sedative. Claire angrily leaves the caves to move to the beach.

Claire returns to the psychic and asks him for another reading. He automatically knows that Thomas left her and warns her that what he sees may not be pleasant. He says that Claire must raise the baby by herself, and that if it is parented by anyone else it will be in danger. The psychic repeatedly calls Claire, and she tells him she’s going to an adoptive services agency.

Boone tells Hurley that Sawyer has the flight manifest, and that could help him take the census. Sawyer surprisingly gives it to Hurley without any objection. While Charlie is trying to help Claire move back to the beach, she starts having contractions. Charlie says he can deliver the baby, but after accidentally confessing to Claire that he’s a recovering drug addict, she yells at him to get Jack, leaving her alone in the jungle.

2. Italics

Claire takes a pregnancy test with the assistance of her boyfriend, Thomas, and it’s positive. Thomas reassures her that everything will be fine and they’ll be good parents. Claire goes to a psychic who knows she’s pregnant, but refuses to tell Claire what he “saw”. One day when Thomas comes home, he leaves Claire, saying that he’s not ready for the responsibility.

While conducting his census, Hurley talks to Ethan Rom, who seems concerned about giving his information to Hurley. Jack suggests to Claire that she wasn't attacked and offers her a sedative. Claire angrily leaves the caves to move to the beach.

Claire returns to the psychic and asks him for another reading. He automatically knows that Thomas left her and warns her that what he sees may not be pleasant. He says that Claire must raise the baby by herself, and that if it is parented by anyone else it will be in danger. The psychic repeatedly calls Claire, and she tells him she’s going to an adoptive services agency.

Boone tells Hurley that Sawyer has the flight manifest, and that could help him take the census. Sawyer surprisingly gives it to Hurley without any objection. While Charlie is trying to help Claire move back to the beach, she starts having contractions. Charlie says he can deliver the baby, but after accidentally confessing to Claire that he’s a recovering drug addict, she yells at him to get Jack, leaving her alone in the jungle.

3. Note

Flashback: Claire takes a pregnancy test with the assistance of her boyfriend, Thomas, and it’s positive. Thomas reassures her that everything will be fine and they’ll be good parents. Claire goes to a psychic who knows she’s pregnant, but refuses to tell Claire what he “saw”. One day when Thomas comes home, he leaves Claire, saying that he’s not ready for the responsibility.

While conducting his census, Hurley talks to Ethan Rom, who seems concerned about giving his information to Hurley. Jack suggests to Claire that she wasn't attacked and offers her a sedative. Claire angrily leaves the caves to move to the beach.

Flashback: Claire returns to the psychic and asks him for another reading. He automatically knows that Thomas left her and warns her that what he sees may not be pleasant. He says that Claire must raise the baby by herself, and that if it is parented by anyone else it will be in danger. The psychic repeatedly calls Claire, and she tells him she’s going to an adoptive services agency.

Boone tells Hurley that Sawyer has the flight manifest, and that could help him take the census. Sawyer surprisingly gives it to Hurley without any objection. While Charlie is trying to help Claire move back to the beach, she starts having contractions. Charlie says he can deliver the baby, but after accidentally confessing to Claire that he’s a recovering drug addict, she yells at him to get Jack, leaving her alone in the jungle.

French song from "Whatever the Case May Be"

The song Shannon sings in French (Rousseau's lyrics) at the end of "Whatever the Case May Be" sounds a lot like Bobby Darin's "Beyond the Sea" which is an english version of "La Mer" by Charles Trenet. Can this be confirmed or denied? --unsigned comment by 209.99.19.8-- --spacemonkey4

The song is definitely Beyond the Sea/La Mer. Shannon refers to a fish cartoon that her ex-boyfriend's kid played repeated. The closing song for Finding Nemo is in fact Beyond the Sea.[6] agapetos_angel 04:50, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Should this be mentioned in the article, or is it considered trivia? It seems as if not more relevant to the plot/storyline than pointing out that the movie Shannon is talking about is Finding Nemo. -- spacemonkey4 10:09, 09 May 2006.

Latest copy edit

I reverted the last edit of this article by 81.151.192.156. By and large, the bad points outweighed the good. There was repetition and redundancy all over the place: has the anonymous user ever heard of synonyms? Also, the correct present tense was changed to past tense in one instance and there was some bad spelling ("greives"). In addition, while there is no Wiki consensus on the use of curly or straight quotes, it is the latter that prevail throughout the Lost main article, so for consistency's sake, this one should follow the same style. However, in places there were some good summaries. It would be better if you did one section at a time, allowing others to amend your work as necessary, rather than go through the whole thing wholesale. If this edit stands, then it creates a lot more work for someone to put right. Chris 42 16:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Lost Template

The main Lost template is looking at major edits after the finale tonight, there has been some discussion on how the design should look like, and what the contents of the new template should be, the Current template is as follow

Lost
Production: DVD releases • Episode list • Season 1 • Season 2 • Season 3 • Soundtrack
Main characters: Ana Lucia • Ben • Boone • Charlie • Claire • Desmond • Hurley • Jack • Jin • Juliet • Kate
Libby • Locke • Michael • Mr. Eko • Nikki • Paulo • Sawyer • Sayid • Shannon • Sun • Walt
Supporting characters: Bernard • Rose • The Others
Organizations: DHARMA Initiative • Hanso Foundation • Oceanic Airlines
Elements: Crossovers • DHARMA Initiative stations • Flight 815 • Mythology • Thematic motifs
Miscellaneous: Gary Troup • In popular culture • Lost Experience • Rachel Blake • Video game


and is looking to be replaced with this one

Comment The following template has been created for design purposes only and should not be used in any pages; please use Template:LostNav.
  Lost
Production: Episode List | Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3
Main Characters: Ana-Lucia | Boone | Charlie | Claire | Eko | Hurley | Jack | Jin | Kate | Libby | Locke | Michael | Sawyer | Sayid | Shannon | Sun | Walt
Other Characters: Bernard | Desmond | "Henry Gale" | Rose | Rousseau | Flashback Characters
Organizations/Groups: Oceanic Airlines | The DHARMA Initiative | The Hanso Foundation | The Others
Miscellaneous: The Lost Experience | Island Stations | Soundtrack

and others that are listed in there, Please do not share your ideas here, go to Template talk:LostNav#More "spacious" template to share your thoughts, thank you very much and enjoy the season finale tonight 9/8c on ABC --mo-- (Talk | #info | ) 16:05, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey

Should we link to the season 1 dvd?

Consensus on article system: Seasons vs. Episodes

We need to reach consensus. PLEASE comment here. -- Wikipedical 22:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

1st episode

Is there anyone that can say something about Jack's flashback in the 1st episode? --213.45.189.70 21:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

What's to say about it? Jack is on the plane, then it starts to crash. I don't think that it's notable enough to put in the episode summary, because we already know that there was a plane crash, and thus the flashback doesn't give us any new information. --Kahlfin 03:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

More Images!!

I don't understand the copyright laws too much here on wiki, so could any add more images, like there is on the Lost Season 2 page? It would make the page look less repetitive. Thanks. Cpudestroyer 20:53, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I started adding images to the first episodes Theone256 13:50, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Mediation

For reference, there is an ongoing mediation about whether Lost episodes should be covered on Wikipedia via an "all on a season page" method, or "one page per episode" method. Details on the discussion are available here: Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/Lost episodes. --Elonka 22:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The mediation is complete, and as part of the compromise, the season articles have been reworked to be "all season" summaries rather than individual episode lists. Information about individual episodes should now be placed into the respective episode articles, which are linked from List of Lost episodes. I've attempted to update all the links appropriately, but help would be appreciated to see if I missed something somewhere. Hopefully we can have everything all cleaned up before Monday, when Lost will be featured on the front page of Wikipedia! --Elonka 06:14, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The Repeating Transmission in 'Pilot part 2'

According my calculations, the transmission has not been repeating for 16 years and 5 months, as claimed in the show, but only 4 years and 7-8 months. 7294531 iterations times approximately 20 seconds (not 30) per iteration makes 4.63 years. Is this a mistake in the show, or does it have a significant meaning? Perhaps a nice addition as trivia? Mzyxptlk 17:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Links to episode articles

In order to help proceed with the mediation discussion, I have added links to the episode articles, from the appropriate places on this page. These links reduce confusion, and harm nothing. If anyone has concerns, please let me know. --Elonka 19:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, of course I have concerns. This unilateral step is basically serving to help cement (as the status quo) your stance on episode articles vs. season articles. If "possession is 9/10ths the law", as the saying goes, status quo counts for a lot in Wikipedia. These links should be removed until the issue under mediation either achieves consensus (that being consensus, not majority vote) or is resolved by the mediator. Thanks. PKtm 17:34, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Doing a wholesale revert of a good faith edit can be regarded as uncivil. The links are to additional sources of relevant information that are already on Wikipedia, and indeed, each of those episodes already links to the season articles, so it seems improper to have the episode articles link to the season articles, but not allow the season articles to link to the episode articles. I am re-establishing the links, since they are valid. If there is consensus to remove them, I will abide by the will of the community, but please don't act unilaterally. --Elonka 19:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Exodus flashbacks

When did Sayid flashback in Exodus? I always figured his appearances were part of Shannon and Jin's flashbacks. Wasn't his flashback a deleted scene on the DVD? Also, shouldn't Claire be added (for Part Two), for her flashback fighting Danielle? Squidward2602 20:01, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

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