Talk:List of unusual deaths

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 23 May 06. The result of the discussion was keep.
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For a September 2004 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/List of people who died with tortoises on their heads

About Roman Emperor Valerian, in the Antiquity section: the section says he died of having molten gold poured down his throat by the Persians. Is it pissible this story is confused with that of Marcus Licinius Crassus [1], who had molten gold poured down HIS throat by the Parthians? I cannot find any web reference to Valerian that describes the manner of his death. - Sailboatd2

Contents

[edit] Comments

Lol .. if it's to be a "list of people" would you add at least 5 people? -- User:Docu

I know it can provoke laughter, but its much more history correct and informative than most lists in Wikipedia. As for other persons for the list, i am working on it... my office is on a 5th floor ;) MvHG 14:48, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

Hmmm, I work with epidemiologists all day during the week. Something I find it amazing how epidemiologists have branched out from infectious disease to chronic disease, and other types of ailments. I will ask the injury section on Monday if they have a category for deaths by cranial trauma from hard shelled animals borne by avians. After that I will narrow down to turtles and vultures. AlainV 00:28, 2004 May 16 (UTC)

Three things...shouldn't this be "list of people who died from having a tortoise dropped on their head" or something? Second, how many other people would that apply to? Third, Aeschylus didn't really die like that, that's just a legend. So...yeah. Adam Bishop 20:20, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

Amusing as this is, it might be possible to make a real list if we broadened it to be 'List of people killed by animals' or somesuch. What do you think? Mark Richards 18:57, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)
As I haven't read much in the news about Muriel's attemps, maybe we should just add the one entry to Lists of people by cause of death. -- User:Docu
FYI - I speedy deleted this when it was first created, thinking it was a joke, but the creator indignantly re-created it and implied it would soon expand. That was four months ago and it still reads like a proposal for a bad SNL skit; as far as I'm concerned, this one should be killed. - DavidWBrooks 18:20, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
We could expand to 'list of people killed in turtle-related incidents'. See Motor Vehicle Accidents Involving Turtles for a sampling... Key45 10:20, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The 20th century part of the article should maybee be split up in decades if the article is supposed to grow any larger. Ofcourse, an alternative is to be more selective, but then a considerable amount of the incidents should be deleted. A third option is to split the article into two articles; one about very unusual deaths, and another about unusual deaths of famous persons, the other being less selective. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by jjylf (talk • contribs). 10 November 2006

[edit] John Bonham

I moved this from the page:

John Bonham, drummer for Led Zeppelin, in 1980, choked to death on his own vomit after drinking a large amount of alcoholic drinks.

Although it's very tragic, this doesn't strike me as "usual". Are we going to include drug overdoses here, also? -- Netoholic @ 23:27, 2004 Nov 9 (UTC)

[edit] Mama Cass

I removed a reference to Mama Cass choking on a sandwich, since (a) it's not unusual to choke to death on food, and (b) as the reference noted, it's almost certainly an inaccurate urban myth. - DavidWBrooks 02:52, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)


[edit] William I of England

I originally posted this article at Wikipedia:Unusual_articles. If you check out Wikipedia talk:Unusual articles you will see some debate about whether the article should be part of UA or Unusual deaths. It was concluded that the article should be posted here.

I find it hard to understand why it is that William I's death is not considered unusual. He exploded during his funeral for crying out loud!

--One Salient Oversight 12:07, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Becse it wasn't an unusual death it was an unusual funeral. If he had been killed attended somebody else's funeral when that personal exploded, THEN it would belong here. - DavidWBrooks 13:51, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
Isn't that being a little bit too pedantic? Surely "Death" can cover a bit more ground than the actual mode of his death? Here we have a famous historical figure exploding duing his funeral. Unusual? Yes. WHy not put him here? What precedent would this set? I know that the Ayatollah Khomeni's body was passed around an Iranian mob during his funeral (which is unusual) but what else? --One Salient Oversight 03:15, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
I look at it as the manner in which the person died (eg. a turtle fell on their head) or the circumstances in which they died (eg. publically on TV) is what qualifies the person for being on this list. What does his corpse "exploded" mean any how? I can't imagine it detonating and tossing body parts about. Corpses being squished to a pulp probably isn't that unusual. I seem to recall something similar happening to a pope, for example. - JEther 18:47, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Edward II of England

The story about Edward's murder is spurious. The story arises in the chronicles some 30 years after Edward's death and is considered by many historians to be little more than salacious propaganda against a notoriously homosexual king. Arguments advanced against the story include several based on logic, one of which is that the supposed benefits of murder by that method (his face/body would show no signs of disfigurement while lying in state) could be achieved by many far simpler, surer and faster methods. The Wiki article Edward_II_of_England is pretty good on this.

Dweller 17:18, 17 May 2006 (GMT+1)

[edit] Disclaimers about the common cold

It has been scientifically proven that exposure to low temperatures is not a cause of the common cold, nor any complications, like pneumonia.

Given that this is the case, the deaths of Francis Bacon and William Henry Harrison are totally unrelated to the circumstances leading up to it. In other words, Bacon did not die because he stuffed snow into a chicken and then caught pneumonia, and William Henry Harrison did not die because his speech was delivered in heavy snow, thus causing deadly pneumonia. The deaths of these two people by pneumonia is totally coincidental with any events they experienced beforehand.

However, I felt that it was necessary to keep both Bacon and Harrison on the page since their deaths are popularly associated with their particular circumstances.

So we have a choice. Either the disclaimer stays or we remove Bacon and Harrison from the list. Which do you prefer?

--One Salient Oversight 12:07, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Put that way, I'd vote to remove them - thinking about it, their deaths aren't unusual at all - lots of people die of colds/flu after exposure (regardless of causality). It's more that these are famous causes of death, not unusual. - DavidWBrooks 13:51, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
I would vote to remove the disclaimers. They're awkward and out-of-place. While the question of whether being in the cold directly causes pnemonia or not may be debated, the bottom line is that people can, and have, died of exposure. Whether pnemonia was the final nail in the coffin or not is immaterial. I would also challenge the sentence "It has been scientifically proven that exposure to low temperatures is not a cause of the common cold, nor any complications, like pneumonia." -- That sounds like the kind of "fact" that gets spread around without any actual scientific evidence to back it up. I'd like to see a link to some evidence that it is true. The idea that both Harrison and Bacon just happened to die soon after prolonged exposure to cold weather is, frankly, too coincidental to be believed. Ravenswood 16:19, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
How about this: [2] - National Insttitudse of Allergy and Infectious Diseease (part of National Institutes of Health) "There is no evidence that you can get a cold from exposure to cold weather or from getting chilled or overheated" The most famous study involved the island of Spitzbergen over the winter, which was wicked cold but had few colds until a ship landed, bringing in disease-carrying outsiders.
Regardless of cause, though, I don't think these deaths belong in an unusual death article - insufficiently unusual. - DavidWBrooks 18:16, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
How does one define "degree of unusuality"? I mean, whether it leads to a man's death or not, stuffing snow into a chicken is certainly an unusual thing to be doing!
I guess it comes down to whether or not to include ordinary deaths brought on by unusual circumstances. You would obviously vote No, I really don't feel that strongly about it, so unless someone else is going to jump in and give you a fight about it, I say edit as you see fit. Ravenswood 18:23, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
My personal feeling is that the articles should remain even though the cause of their death is not linked to their activities. The fact is that their deaths are popularly associated with these activities (stuffing snow into a chicken; making a very long speech in cold weather). How about something like Note: See below which then redicts the person to a disclaimer at the bottom of the page that outlines the concerns being talked about here. --One Salient Oversight 03:20, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm confused by your ultimatum of "this or that, nothing else". Wouldn't it be better to discuss the matter and come to a compromise we all agree on? While I do agree that the common cold is not directly caused by exposure to cold it can also be noted that exposure to cold can be and frequently is a contributing factor in weakening the immune system. That aside, your note has no relevance because pneumonia is not the common cold nor are they even caused by the same source. Pneumonia is mostly caused by bacteriological sources while the common cold is caused by viral sources. See the respective pages on pneumonia and the common cold for more information. Considering that, shouldn't your note, if it stays, say that pneumonia is not caused by cold? I dont understand your insistance on the note being on this article when the purpose of the article is to inform about unusual deaths, not the mechanism by which someone can die. I think that a perfectly good compromise would be to put information on factors which contribute to the common cold or pneumonia as well as myths concerning the two on their respective pages and then simply link to those pages. It would provide a better organization of information as people are more than likely not interested in exactly what causes the common cold when they come to this page. JEther 10:07, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
Neither pneumonia or the common cold are caused as a direct result of exposure to cold weather. If you can find a reputable source that confirms that cold weather can cause a weakening of the immune system then I may be convinced. If that is not the case then, logically, the deaths of Bacon and Harrison were not caused by their chicken stuffing or long speeches, but by their picking up a bacterial infection by other means. This means that their deaths and their pre-death activities are entirely coincidental. Because popular belief has it that pneumonia or the common cold are picked up by exposure to cold weather, their deaths have been popularly explained in these terms. Now that we have scientific evidence to back it up, we can exonerate these two of their "stupidity". Nevertheless, they should remain in this article because of popular belief - but my feeling is that there needs to be some disclaimer lest we promote false knowledge. I'm happy for my original solution - having a disclaimer straight after the death description - to fall by the wayside if some other form of disclaimer can be inserted. What I do NOT want is for the article to remain as it was before, for it would be misleading to readers. --One Salient Oversight 22:59, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
PS. I've just checked Immune system and Immunodeficiency and none of these articles speak about cold weather causing the immune system to weaken.--One Salient Oversight 23:02, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
I think you have a good point about pneumonia and common cold not being caused directly by exposure to cold weather or other such things. My only objection is that I don't believe this is the right article for such information. I think it would be a poor decision to mix loosely related information into the article. Wikipedia is purpose built to provide the wonderful ability to explore other topics related to the one at hand just by clicking on a word in the article. We should put this organizational ability to good use. It would be an excellent idea to instead have a section in the Common Cold or Pneumonia articles about myths relating to those conditions. Regarding whether or not the person's death comes from or is effected by a myth, I would have to lean in favor of being somewhat permissive of myths in this article due to the fact that it was originally started based on a death which is both unusual and mythical. Although I know many things can depress the human immune system ranging from mood, to diet, to lack of sleep, I can't find any explicit refrences to weather depressing the human immune system. [3] and [4] discuss envionmental stress on the immune system. I don't have access to medical journals so I'm lacking in particularly authoritative sources, sorry. JEther 00:30, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
There is now some evidence that cold can contribute to chances of getting a cold [5]. To what extent it was contributory in these cases can only be conjecture.

[edit] More accurate is duller

One unfortunate effect of improving article is that in general, the more accurate the information gets, the less exciting it is. Just consider the recent edit to the Tycho Brahe listing, which switched "bursting bladder" to the more accurate "bladder infection". Sigh ... - DavidWBrooks 16:49, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Not so unusual deaths

I just removed an addition about somebody who was hit by a car while examining another car wreck, because (infortunately) that's a pretty common way of dying - accident scenes are one of the most dangerous places on a road for further accidents, as any police/fire officer will tell you. - DavidWBrooks 7 July 2005 13:00 (UTC)

[edit] Not-so-unusual deaths II

I removed a death by lightning, but the LibraryLion reinstated it, arguing that it's rare enough to be included because the American patiort "may be the only famous person killed this way." Which leads to a debate - is this a list of unusual deaths in the sense of people who died in unique or VERY rare ways (e.g., a turtle being dropped on their head, to use the example that started it all) or is it also a list of famous people who died in uncommon, but not necessarily VERY rare, ways (e.g., the pope who ate a poisonous mushroom, which happens thousands of times a year)? I contend it's the former, but over time a number of the latter have crept in. Any thoughts? - DavidWBrooks 22:35, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Maybee one could make a new article about seamingly unusual, but statistically common causes of deaths? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by jjylf (talk • contribs). 10 November 2006

[edit] An opinion on what to include in the article

In my opinion, responding to DavidWBrooks thoughts, since this list is short enough anyway, I think both can be included. Perhaps a statement should be added to the top of the article to clearly define this article. We know death by pneumonia is quite common, but in the way it happened to U.S. President W.H. Harrison, and the fact he was a famous person in history, merits a mention- in my opinion. Technically, by definition of 'unusual death', i.e. cause of death being very uncommon or rare, W.H. Harrison should not be mentioned. Being struck and killed by lightning is very rare cause of death, so this would qualify by definition of unusual death. My opinions summarized:

1. We include deaths from famous people where very unusual circumstances contributed to death (although the death itself may be quite common, e.g. W.H. Harrison.)

2. We include deaths of noteworthy people where the death itself was very unusual, even though the circumstances that contributed to death perhaps were not. I would however omit any deaths due to rare medical conditions. --LibraryLion 00:30, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

I suppose I've always thought of this page as being List of unusual causes of death - but that's not its title, and probably would run into its own problems. So, now I think of it, I imagine most people would agree with the above argument.
But you raise a good concern about the famous-person-death list - why is dying of pneumonia (not very unusual) after a presidential inauguration speech (very unusual) good enough to list, but dying of some extremely rare medical condition (e.g., the elephant man) isn't? - DavidWBrooks 00:37, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I reworded the intro to reflect the two types of entries. - DavidWBrooks 00:44, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

I imagine people who died of rather rare diseases could be added. Sometimes though with medical problems, you get more of a grey area. For instance some people with very rare diseases actually pass away by more common means, e.g. heart attack, respitory failure, not specifically from the disease itself, although it may have played a factor. In these cases, one would have enough medical information to say definitively that 'this such and such rare disease directly caused a heart attack,' or some other cause of death. It is a little more tricky. Another problem could be defining what is a 'rare' disease.

I would be inclined to have a seperate article for famous people who passed away or were afflicted with rare diseases, than include it in this article, just to avoid the confusion it might cause. I can think of a few names for a new page about people afflicted with or killed by rare diseases. Lou Gehrig, Woodie Guthrie, Dinu Lipatti, the Elephant Man you mentioned, Stewart Alsop, etc., although again, what qualifies as a rare disease would have to clearly be defined for this particular article. I believe though the medical community has some set criteria for this. --LibraryLion 08:40, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gaius Gracchus

The article on Gaius Gracchus contradicts Plutarch's version presented in this list. Maybe this entry should be held back..—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Porcher (talk • contribs).

[edit] Candidates

Some people I will dig up info about and may add it:

1970s hungarian gov't minister who fell (pushed?) into a blast furnace (news reports of it made the Dart Vader idea is claimed)
A medieval king in Hungary who died when his tall wooden throne collapsed due to sabotage
A 200 victory fighter ace of the WWII Luftwaffe invincibles, who was killed when his Me-109 hit a tree during low-level turnfight.
Didn't the russian tsarina Kathrina the Great die while trying to insert a horse's penis? (She was a sex addict)
Gyorgy Dozsa, the leader of 1514 great hungarian peasant-uprising, was roasted alive on a white hot iron chair and his captued comrades were forced to eat his meat
Trotsky was assasinated with an icepick
Famous austrian empress Sisy was assasinated with a nailfile
The Apollo 1 crew who were burned to ashes in mere seconds due to pure oxygene in the cabin
A medieval french king was killed during a stun knight lancing match, when his helmet's soft golden grille let a shard through his eye (Nostradamus foresaw this event)
King Louis II of Hungary drowned in a stream under the weight of his own sheet armour after losing the battle of Mohacs in 1526
A palestinian chief bombmaker was assasinated by Mossad-bugged mobile phone which blew off his head while calling
A top spanish conquistador, the hungriest for looting treasures, was executed by natives who poured molten gold down his throat
Are there any known people who were killed by direct hit from a small meteorite? I've seen photo of a large Cadillac with a 3" space-stone hole through its hood
Egypt's Cleopatra killed herself with a cobra snake bite
Judas the Traitor exploded when he hanges himself as his mouth was sacred by kissing Jesus, so the soul could not exit there
Japanese shogun Tokugawa's chief opponent was neck-deep buried and gradually decapitates with bamboo saw in several days' time.
Most successfull king of Hungary Matthias Corvinus died in 1490 at the zenith of his rule after eating poisoned figs.
Governor of Transylvania, George the Friar was assasinated in 1541, but his body was not discovered in his room until 1543, people thinking he simply retracted to a few years' hermit-hood.
Almos, the top chieftain who led all hungarian tribes to settle in the Carpathian basin, was excuted in 895AD in a horse sacrifice ritual at the border, not allowed to enter the haven.
There was a famous 1960s astronomer with diabetes who died of a sudden coma attack when noone was nearby to help sting him with the insuline pocketpen
An 1840s USA gov't minister was killed when a bottle-cannon designed by one John Ericcson's rivals exploded. Ericcson was blamed instead and he had to flee to Europe.
The people who were killed by post-0911 anthrax envelopes should be mentioned, I think because it was so outrageous an event.
Famous SF author Asimov died of AIDS which he got with blood transfusion during a mid-1980s surgery
Famous english panty humour comedian Benny Hill died of overeting in a restaurant and many are proud of his fitting fate
Classic movie star Clark Gable died of long term heart failure mere hours before his daughter was born, the public accused his film partner Marilyn Monroe for the exhaustion, contributing to her mental decline and eventual suicide...
The hungarian author of world-wide famous suicide song "Szomoru Vasarnap" (Sad Sunday) also took his own life eventually... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.70.48.242 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Darwin Awards

I thought that the Darwin Awards featured enough unusual deaths that a link would be in order. If anybody thinks it's wrong, stupid or anything else, go ahead and delete it, but I see a slight link, and I might not be the only one. Sillstaw 02:46, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Valdivia

"1543: Pedro de Valdivia a dreaded conquistador was captured by Native Americans and executed by pouring molten gold down his throat to satisfy his thirst for treasures." Can that be proved? His article doesn't even mention it. HybridFusion 08:33, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Judas Iscariot's death inaccurate

The inclusion of the death of Judas uses the bible as it's source. However, the interpretation is inaccurate.

The idea that Judas hung himself comes from Matthew 27:3-5, which says

3 Then Judas, His betrayer, seeing that He had been condemned, was remorseful and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” And they said, “What is that to us? You see to it!” 5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.

His erm, "exploding" refers to a seperate reference to the events in Acts 1:18-19:

18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out. 19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)

It is generally accepted that "Akel Dama" refers to the Valley of Hinnom, which has rather tall, rocky edges, and it would logically make sense that had Judas hung himself at the top of the precipice, once his rope deteriorated he would have fallen and splatted, etc.

Even if this was not the cause, the term "exploded while hanging himself" is misleading, because it says that Judas split because of a fall.

Whether or not you think that the Bible is an accurate historical account, if it's going to be used as a source in this encyclopedia it needs to be cited accurately. I'm going to remove his death. Someone can rewrite it if they still thing that it falls into the category of unusual deaths, which perhaps it does.

I read through the list, and I don't find most of the deaths to be unusual. For instance, since when is dying from being shot unusual - as was the case for several US Presidents, including the li

What is rare or unusual about people dying from heart attack (James Rodale), gunshot wounds (William McKinley), poisoning (several examples), gangrene in an age before antibiotics (also several examples) and so on.

Also, some of the assertions of unusual, such as the ritual sacrifice of the Mixtec king, Eight Deer Jaguar Claw, needs to be viewed in the light of human sacrifice rituals of Mezo-American civilizations in general, which changes the death from unusual to a culturally specific norm.

If the point of this list is anecdotes about unusual circumstances surrounding the deaths, that is how it should be titled.

This debate has continued throughout the existence of this page, as you can see if you read above (it was originally titled List of people who died with tortoises on their heads!) The intro now says "... unique or extremely rare causes of death recorded throughout history, as well as less rare but still unusual causes of death of prominent persons." It's unusual for a prominent political leader to be assasinated, so that's why McKinley is here. But you're right - there's no hard and fast rule at all for what can or can't be on this list, and too often they include tales of somebody who died and then something unusual happened, or deaths that aren't unusual in other cultures, or just wild rumors.
A minor note - please sign your comments with four tilde's, which creates a signature and time stamp like mine. This works even if you don't have an account (it leaves an anonymous IP number). Also, please indent them if you're responding to earlier comments, or else it gets very confusing about who is saying what, when. - DavidWBrooks 15:08, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 9-11

It's risqué. Will you include the Holocaust next? It was not a very common occurence itself.Dahn 09:18, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I have removed the 9/11 and anthrax deaths, since they seem very much out of place here. All the other entries dealt with a single or very few, named person, rather than mass death of unnamed (here) victims. - DavidWBrooks 13:37, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] John Fare - decapitated by a robot?

There's an entry in this list for the 1971 death of John Fare, a Canadian artist apparently decapitated by a robot... call me cynical, but if there was any truth to this I'd really expect a man decapitated by a robot to have his own Wikipedia entry.

A Google returns very few results on John Fare, and all are brief references-as-fact in generally poorly written "essays". Of particular note is one page (which no longer seems to exist - all I can find is the snippet from the Google result page and it's Google cache link is invalid):

"[another essay] gives the account (most of which is based on rumour) of an artist named john fare who, between 1964 ..."

So, is there any proof this even happened?

John Fare had been added again, but I cannot find any indication that this actually happened. A google gives a few articles that seem to me to indicate a work of fiction (http://www.earthlydelights.co.uk/johnfare.htm particularly stuff like "...I was reminded for a moment of a xylophone recital I and a girl named Nellie had gone to about ten years earlier on the planet Neptune.") I believe this may be some clumsy attempt at a hoax or at least at discrediting wikipedia (again). If some credible evidence is given it would certainly be unusual enough to merit a place on the list, but for now I am removing it.

MasterDirk 12:03, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jennifer Levin

Added recently to 1986 was Jennifer Levin, killed by the "Preppy killer". Now I have never heard of this, and it sounds horrific (like all murders), but is it really consistent with the theme of this list? Isn't this just a (and I don't mean this to sound as harsh as it undoubtedly sounds) "normal" rape-killing?

MasterDirk 23:54, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

You're right - I've removed it. - DavidWBrooks 01:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Harold Davidson

I removed this entry as it seems he died from insulin overdose, not a lion mauling, which itself was only borderline unusual. -- Netoholic @ 21:29, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible Copycat at 2spare

From the list:

2001: 1 June, Crown Prince Dipendra of Nepal, enraged from a dispute over his marriage arrangements (and possibly intoxicated), reportedly went on a rampage at dinner and massacred nearly the entire Royal Family, including his father the king. But in accordance with custom and tradition, Dipendra, then in a coma due to wounds sustained either from palace guards or a botched suicide attempt, became king for three days before dying on 4 June. He was succeeded by his uncle, whose son mysteriously survived the massacre unscathed.

From http://www.2spare.com/item_49619.aspx:

On June 1, Crown Prince Dipendra of Nepal, enraged from a dispute over his marriage arrangements (and possibly intoxicated), reportedly went on a rampage at dinner and massacred nearly the entire Royal Family, including his father the king. But in accordance with custom and tradition, Dipendra, then in a coma due to wounds sustained either from palace guards or a botched suicide attempt, became king for three days before dying on June 4. He was succeeded by his uncle, whose son mysteriously survived the massacre unscathed. (2001)

From the list:

2005: Kenneth Pinyan, an Enumclaw, Seattle WA. man, died of acute peritonitis after submitting to anal intercourse with a stallion. The man had done this before, though apparently this time his partner was a little too keen, and delayed several hours to visit hospital wishing to avoid official cognisance. The case may lead to the criminalization of bestiality in Washington. [4]

From http://www.2spare.com/item_49619.aspx:

Kenneth Pinyan an Enumclaw, Seattle WA. man, died of acute peritonitis after submitting to anal intercourse with a stallion. The man had done this before, though apparently this time his partner was a little too keen, and delayed several hours to visit hospital wishing to avoid official cognisance. The case may lead to the criminalization of bestiality in Washington. (2005)

Just two examples, looks to me like the entire article at 2spare consists of elements from this list.

[edit] Deletion candidates

See article deletion debate

  • 1901: William McKinley, 25th president of the United States, was assassinated while attending the Pan-American Exposition in Buffalo, New York. The assassin, Leon Czolgosz, had his right hand wrapped in a handkerchief to conceal the gun.
Death by shooting not unusual. Lots of Presidents of the US seem to get shot.
  • 1916 : The English satirist, novelist and wit Saki was killed in France, during World War I by a sniper's bullet, having reportedly cried "Put that damned cigarette out!" to a fellow officer in his trench (lest the glowing embers reveal their whereabouts), thus alerting the enemy to his presence.
Second shouting to give away a position in WW1 - not that uncommon to be killed by shooting in WW1
  • 1938: Austrian author Ödön von Horvath was killed by a falling branch during a thunderstorm in Paris.
This happens after every big storm
  • 1968: Thomas Merton, Trappist monk, author, was accidentally electrocuted to death while taking a bath.
Not that uncommon, I would have thought
  • 1983: Tennessee Williams died after he (possibly) choked on a bottle cap.
Well did he or didn't he?
  • 1984: Jon-Erik Hexum, an American television actor, died after he shot himself in the head with a prop gun during a break in filming. Whether he deliberately committed suicide or was simply unaware of the potentially deadly effects of the blank round was not determined.
Lots of people shoot themselves in the US where everone has several guns each, I've heard
actually many people in the US do NOT own guns. this is a gross generalization.
  • 1997: Gunpei Yokoi, creator of the Game Boy, Metroid, Kid Icarus, and WonderSwan, and another man were struck by a car while they were examining the damage caused by another accident involving two cars on the side of the road. The second man suffered two broken ribs, but Yokoi was killed.
Standing in the road is dangerous. The UK highway code warns against this after an accident or breakdown.

21st century

  • 2003: David Bloom, NBC news reporter, died of a pulmonary embolism, possibly caused by blood clots in his legs from long hours cramped in a troop carrier while reporting on the invasion of Iraq.
Doesn't seem that rare a death
  • 2005: Zurab Zhvania, Prime Minister of Georgia, died with a colleague of carbon monoxide poisoning due to a faulty space heater.
I can't believe this is rare. We have a CO meter near our boiler
  • 2006: Michael Maas, aged 61, a window fitter from Swindon, UK, caught septicemia from a cat scratch, and died from blood poisoning. Recording a verdict of death by natural causes, the Wiltshire coroner said it would be unduly harsh to lay the blame on the cat.
Funny but who was MM?

Stephen B Streater 20:58, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I deleted the following because death by pressing with stones was not unusual at the time:


Why was this article below deleted? It's one of the most unusual deaths I've heard of! Look at the page about Jacob Kovco and you will see.

  • 2006: Private Jacob Kovco, aged 25, of the Australian Defence Force died of gunshot wound to the head. A current inquest has so far stated that Kovco may have accidentely shot himself while making a joke about rather being dead than hearing the song 'Dreams' by The Cranberries, that was playing at the time. It is also reported that one month before his death, Kovco had written in his journal about a having a detailed dream in which he shot himself in the head. The inquest is still underway.
Because, as I said on the talk page of his article, this is all supposition ... he MAY HAVE done this. Until it's established as true by the inquest, it's just a rumor, and we can't print rumors as true. (And, frankly, I don't think it's all that unusual even if it is true - people accidentally shoot themselves while joking around all the time - but that's a judgement call.) - DavidWBrooks 14:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I've heard of people shooting themselves or friends by accident, but never from a joke of this nature. Whether that is unusual or not, the amount of unusual things surrounding his death alone should be enough to get him in the list. The fact his injuries were identical to a dream he had meant to have written about in high detail, also a body bungle where someone else's body was shipped back to his family in Australia. You should read some of the news references on his page, it's quite bizarre... I think the whole thing is a blotched cover up. It will be interesting to see what the outcome is.

Hunt through old Darwin awards and their ilk, and you'll find accidental shootings during joking around. As for that dream - note your wording that he was said to have written it down; I'll bet that if we get a look at this journal entry the connection will be much, much vaguer than "identical". Such things always are. And as for the body bag - that's a goofup after the death, not an unusual death. It may be an interesting situation, but it's not relevant to this article. - DavidWBrooks 17:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Timothy Treadwell

"Eaten by bears" isn't an unusual death - there are 5 recorded fatalities in Yellowstone National Park alone since 1916. It doesn't fall under "famous person with a relatively common death" because he's only famous because he was eaten by bears. "Not eaten by bears despite 13 years of continued contact" is the only unusual part, but it seems like even after 13 years of successful contact with bears, "camping with bears" is still an intrinsically dangerous activity of which death is a natural consequence. - Cdk 19:47, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't see how five cases over a period of 90 years makes something "usual". - 20:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

That's 5 cases in Yellowstone. See List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America_by_decade for the other 100 or so people who have been killed by bears in North America in the past century. If "eaten by bears in Yellowstone" is intrinsically interesting, we should list those 5 people, and de-list Treadwell, who was eaten in Katmai Nat'l Park in Alaska. - Cdk 00:29, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Steve Irwin

Apparently today someone named Steve Irwin was killed by a stingray. Should that be included in the article? -- ReyBrujo 05:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

He made a living tempting death with dangerous creatures. I don't see it as unusual that Death has obliged him. -- Netoholic @ 06:22, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. - DavidWBrooks 11:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to have to disagree. The opening paragraph for the article says that the article covers deaths that have "unique causes or unique circumstances". I hardly think dying with a stingray barb through the chest is a common way to die. We include the death of Karel Soucek, a daredevil who died during one of his stunts. If we go by the current logic being applied, many entries that enrich the article will have to be removed such as Timothy Treadwell, Tom Pryce, and J.G. Parry-Thomas, all of whom's deaths are not entirely unusual in their chosen careers. By recognizing that their is an inherent danger in one's profession does not make one's death any less unusual. Consider how many people actually die by stingray or bear attack, much less notable people. Regards, Deyyaz [ Talk | Contribs ] 15:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Treadwell studied bears extensively, and was killed by them. Had Irwin (The Crocodile Hunter) been killed by a croc, the overwhelming irony (not strictly his profession) would have meritted his inclusion in this list, just like Treadwell. Without that irony, it's just a death caused by a dangerous profession - and not unusual enough for this list. -- Netoholic @ 18:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
I disagree because the stingray was not the subject of his attention. Even though he commonly places himself in dangerous situations with animals, in this case he was simply getting some footage of the reef and the stingray attacked from a hidden position on the ocean floor. Could have happened to anybody. SockMonkeh 22:57, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I, too, disagree. It's not so much the actual cause of death that makes it unusual, it's the irony of who he was, what he tried to do overall, and specifically that he was trying to demystify the animal with this particular episode. Akradecki 16:12, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
I am totally willing to entertain discussion about removing other deaths, related to particularly dangerous careers, from this list. In any case, I would prefer if we didn't make this decision just because Irwin's death is current news. Let's table the discussion for a few months, and see if by then his death, from a historical perspective, seems like it belongs on this page. -- Netoholic @ 17:39, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi. I thought the circumstances were rather unusual. Ironic as well, due to the nature of his profession, but it's not a regular way to die. But I like Netoholic's suggestion to wait a while and look at his death in a few months to decide whether it is still as hilarious. Oscar Winner Michael Caine 20:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
It absolutely merits inclusion. Dying of a stingray barb to the chest is an unusual and rare way to die, even if it happens to an adult who chooses to make wild animals his playmates. This category isn't about how a person lived, it's about how a person died.
As for whether it's less unusual because Irwin was in a dangerous profession, I say again let's look at the death itself. He died by stingray. Is it usually dangerous for humans to interact with stingrays? According to news articles, no. Irwin does other things in his life that are probably far more dangerous. The way he died is unusual even within the strict context of his wacky life.--Perceive 20:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Include. --AStanhope 20:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, people are killed by wild animal frequently - hundreds are killed in Africa each year, mostly by hippos. But we don't hear about them. Western Person Killed By Wild Animal is much less common, we hear about many of those; Famous Western Person Killed By Wild Animal is even less common and we hear about all of those. Whether they meet the criteria of this page, which have been debated since before the page was created, is far from clear. - DavidWBrooks 21:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

By the way, it's been added already. - DavidWBrooks 22:11, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Stingrays are not hippos. Hundreds of deaths per year? Not even close. According to http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20355064-30417,00.html , there has been less than 20 confirmed stingray deaths, ever. The only other confirmed Australian death by stingray happened in 1988. This is a very unusual death even without Irwin's notoriety.--Perceive 01:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
No, "person who works with dangerous animals is killed by one of them" is not that unusual a death. (That objection applies to others in this list, though.) "Australian killed by stingray" is rare, but with 200+ countries and, oh, 50-100 deadly species, that makes 10,000+ possible combinations to add to this list! Being famous is one of the things that gets you on this page, rightly or wrongly. - DavidWBrooks 02:07, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Do not include - for all the obvious reasons. Dahn 02:11, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Include per my above statement. Death by stingray is a very uncommon way to die. Deyyaz [ Talk | Contribs ] 02:15, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vladamir Smirnov

As far as I know, one cannot die of "brain damage."

[edit] Candidate for Removal

This isn't even remotely unusual, but I'm new here so I don't want to axe is just like that:

2006: New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle, who was also a pilot in training, erratically flew his single-engine jet into the side of a large apartment building in New York City, killing Lidle and his flight instructor. The ensuing explosion burned a considerable amount of the building, injuring several occupants although none were killed. Lidle had communicated to a radio tower that he was having fuel problems earlier in the flight. For nearby Manhattan witnesses, the moment bore a shocking and poignant resemblance to the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center in 2001. SockMonkeh 22:55, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

You're right, I've removed it. Propound 04:38, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Indeed. Unless the FAA comes up with a unique equipment malfunction of some sorts, this should not be added again. Intangible 04:57, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citations

So obviously, I have seen this article (rightly) was previously nominated for deletion, but was kept.

I do however think that it needs drastic revisions. I counted at least 45 uncited anecdotes about so called "unusual deaths". These should be removed should they not? Or verified. Otherwise its just an urban legend page.

I may do so at some point, but as of now I have not.

MergeCar 02:39, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree...this article seriously needs cites, and I'll work on that when I can, but in the meantime, I plan on reverting any uncited additions. If you have something to contribute, but no source info, I'd suggest putting it here on the talk page first, so others can evaluate it. Akradecki 18:08, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Darshan Cowles

Being morbidly curious, I tried to check this story out, but didn't come up with much. The article here had been deleted, and even through lots of research on the web, this was all I could come up with, from a cashed page ("Skateboarding" here on Wikipedia) that since had been changed.

"In 2005 the world of skateboarding was shaken on its axis, when Darshan Cowles, at the time only a very promising young skater from the UK, stunned the skating community by attempting to complete a 720 melon. Tragically, such a young skater trying to perform such a groundbreaking trick resulted in a horrific crash, which left onlookers open-mouthed. Despite being rushed to hospital, Darshan was sadly pronounced dead hours after the dreadful incident. Although only 17 when he died, Darshan's attempted 720 melon was considered so courageous that he was recently voted the second most influential skater of all time in a survey of more than 5,000 skaters, with Tony Hawk narrowly beating him to the top spot. Despite Darshan's iconic status in the world of skating, his death is as clear a sign as any of the dangers of audacious tricks in skateboarding."

You would think if this had really happened, there would be more evidence on the web. Actually, any evidence at all, besides the video that is supposedly on YouTube. I would even think that there would be even just remnants of normal discussion about the abilities of this skateboarder left on the web. I could not even find evidence that he was a popular skater. Is this all a hoax and completely flying over my head, or did this really happen? Really scratching my head over this, and would like to get more info. Fmalcangi 07:49, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation needed purgatory

I'm going to be moving all entries that I have tried and failed to find verifiable sources to here. If anyone can find what I wasn't able to, please feel free to add these back in, with the appropriate citations (if web, please use template:cite web. Akradecki 18:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, that sure is interesting: I was able to read about it in the very first reference (second paragraph from the bottom). The other two references do not belong here. Dahn 18:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I should have (and just did) phrased that better: I could find no verifiability...the first reference does mention the legend, but goes so far as to say that the tale is unreliable (need a really big chunk of salt). Akradecki 18:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
But is that not covered by the "according to legend" part of the entry? Dahn 18:38, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I can see a place for a legend in the article for the guy himself, but if it didn't really happen, I don't see it appropriate to include here. This is not a list of legends. Akradecki 19:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citneeded craze

This citation needed thing is insane. First of all, I think it should be applied to lists for only the most marginal of cases - if lists are listing articles, it is common-sense that articles should include references, not lists! For example, Constantine Hangerli currently has a "citneeded" tag, even though no less than three sources indicate the way in which he died where references belong. Anyone can figure that out by actually clicking the link: if that is not to be expected from a user, why link words at all?! Even for articles that do not cite their sources, tags should be placed inside the articles, and not on various lists! I can picture need for tags with incidents that are only referred to on this list, but why the hell would it be the case with researched articles? Please, be reasonable. Dahn 18:18, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Where does it say Lists are exempt from WP:V? Akradecki 18:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Way to massacre my point. I was saying that, if references are present in articles, it is pretentious to duplicate them here just for the sake of those who cannot click links (do me the favour of clicking the link for Constantine Hangerli). Consequently, where references aren't present, one would perhaps be helping wikipedia more by actually tagging the articles, and not random lists. Dahn 18:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I would really appreciate an answer on this topic. For example, I'd rather add sources for Vlad Înecatul in the article, not on this list. Dahn 18:45, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
At first I agreed with you, but now I'm not sure: The trouble is that this article attracts its share of hit-and-run anon additions that might be true or might not (urban legend-ish, as Akradecki says). Also, this is an intriguing list that casual readers will scroll through: expecting them to click on every site to see if the statement is bull or not is too much to expect. Although it would be visually ugly and a pain to do, I'm not sure asking for one reference per item is unreasonable. And there's no reason, of course, that a reference can't be added here *and* to the actual article. - DavidWBrooks 19:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, if there is anything we can do about the hit and runs, it is to check the facts in the entries - either by looking for sources where no article is present or by checking for conformity between article and list; we could not do more than that, so the issue of hit and runs is actually irrelevant to the topic. Especially since editors can, have, and will check all new entries (considering that part of that check includes looking through the mother article, which Akradecki could have done before tagging). My concern is about the sourced and sourcable. The stylistic problem is major: for instance, Constantine Hangerli's death is mentioned by every source dealing with his reign (I only had three available). This level of information would make the entry common sense for all those familiar with the topic (unlike the death of a Korean game enthusiast). If I am to source the list as well (after I have sourced the article), will I have to mention all sources I can find? If I am to pick just one, which one will I pick? The reasoning behind citationneeded tags should be to track down obscure facts, not to repeat info.
If we're doing this because the casual reader will find the info bizarre and unfamilar, should we not also expect that reader to be unfamiliar with what the Romans were doing in Persia, where Wallachia is situated, who Isabela Duncan was, what the meaning of the word "stoic" is? There is evidence of such problems even with the editors: for example, a citation needed was placed after Hangerli, but none after Sigurd I of Orkney (even though the former has a well-referenced articles, if I dare say it, while the second is a red link); should we ecourage the systemic bias?
As I have said, checking facts should be the stuff of editors first and foremost. If I have included an article that said x died in y manner based on the references in the article, why would I have to reference the short version of info available just one click away? For inclusions of articles on wikipedia (and not of random unusual incidents) this list is equivalent to List of people who died on their birthdays - would we have to reference that list as well?
Suppose I am wrong. Even so, I cannot for the love of me understand why the citations were not simply copied from the articles in so many cases: aside from that of Hangerli, we have countless ones that, despite not having a complete reference system, clearly indicate that they are based on text of the Britannica (and the way in which relevant fragments are written sure does indicate that they were not modified). Just how much more repetitive and dreary must these tasks become before we use our common sense?
And why would this system work for Hangerli and Valerian and Attila, but not for Giuseppe Sinopoli, Brandon Vedas, Sigurd I of Orkney, and Vitaly Nikolayenko? Dahn 19:54, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Anyone? Dahn 11:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Looks like it's just you and me now - I certainly think references could be copied from the articles. Absolutely - no need to reinvent the wheel. Cut and paste away. The main purpose, I think, is to help weed out piffle. - DavidWBrooks 17:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Elisha Mitchell

I removing him since a cursuroy web search either makes no mention of the waterfalls name or says that it was named in his honor.Timber Rattlesnake

[edit] Death of Titus

I deleted the part on the death of Titus. It is impossible to die because a mosquito flies up the nose and pick the brain, and this is clearly simply a myth.DaBears34 05:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Johnny Watkins

Is this a hoax? What raised my skepticism was "kidnapped by a group of murderous feminists". There is also no source to such a story. --Philo 07:53, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

That seems a safe bet; that's why it has been reverted. Those wacky college kids - aren't we glad they share their wit? - DavidWBrooks 11:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not so unusual deaths III

  • 2003: Jane McDonald, a seminary student from Scotland, slipped and fell into an open dishwasher and was impaled by a kitchen knife.
  • 2005: 33-year-old pastor Kyle Lake of University Baptist Church[1] in Waco, Texas, was electrocuted when he reached for a microphone while standing in the baptismal pool of the church.
  • 2006: A Canadian woman choked on marshmallows at London, Ontario's Western Fair while taking part in a "Chubby Bunny" contest, and later died in hospital.
  • 2006: A Dutch woman was burnt alive at a Dutch hospital in Almelo when fire broke out while she was fixed to a hospital bed in the operating room and given a local sedative.

These above seem tragic, as all accidental deaths, but I don't think they are very unusual. At least not so unusual to be in a say top-200 list of all times or top 3-of the-year most unusual deaths. I will delete them if there are no objections. Besides I just added the apostle who was flayed alive and then crucified. --217.209.46.200 12:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I have removed them. I afterwards have seen that they have already been removed but restored by User:Mathrick. But this user has not objected here against the removal. The reason for having a discussion page is to avoid an edit war. Someone restoring every change and refusing to discuss creates an edit war. -- BIL 23:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] death by heartattack

There are something like 7 death by heartattack while being watched live in theatre, filmed for TV, or live on the radio. I would think that would mean at most the first time it occured may be rare, but the next 6 times seem less so. So, Which ones stay and which ones go? They are in 1943, 1971, 1984, 1991, 1996, 2001. Dstanfor 15:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

IMHO, the extremely public nature of these deaths means they are still notable enough for this article - although, obviously, this is very much a judgement call. (This entire article is a judgement call!) Six deaths in a bazillion public appearances is pretty unusual. - DavidWBrooks 20:19, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] unusual death categories

After going through the article a few times, a couple types of deaths keep showing up.

Death in front of an audience mistaken for part of the act or sleeping.
death by electrecution of musical equippment or microphones.
ironic deaths where someone dies from doing something that normally doesn't kill you.
ironic deaths where someone doesn't die from their dangerous life, but from something else
deaths of a sexual nature.

Dstanfor 07:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

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