Talk:List of unseen characters

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 23 September 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

Contents

[edit] Hitler in 'Allo 'Allo

Did he ever make an appearance(ie, actual clips from WWII)? The Nazis in the show frequently mention the Führer, but as far as I can recall, he was never actually portrayed by anyone(not even when he supposedly came for an inspection).

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 218.186.8.13 (talk) 07:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Stan from "Will and Grace

He needs to be in here. He is mentioned in almost every episode but is never seen (unless you count his feet in the bathub for 20 seconds on one episode.) Someone add him in!

[edit] Julie Dwyer from the View Askewniverse

In Kevin Smith's View Askewniverse films, the character of Julie Dwyer is often mentioned drowning in a YMCA pool. She was never seen on camera, but she was partly shown (never her face) in an animated sequence from the 10th Aniversary DVD of Clerks. I'm not sure where, but she definately deserves to be on this list. Reverend Raven 21:47, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what show?

Does anyone know of the TV show which featured a regular character, who - for some reason (unpopularity, most likely) - went up to their attic in one episode, and was never seen again? They were spoken about by the other characters still, for the remainder of the show.

That is called the Chuck Cunningham syndrome and does not apply to this article. --kralahome 04:58, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
It's not "Chuck Cunningham" if the character continues to be mentioned. But in the case that I think the question had in mind, a soap opera, as I've heard it the character who went to the attic was indeed never mentioned again, except that many years later a skeleton was shown in the attic (and not commented on). —Tamfang 21:40, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
That was from Happy Days ... "Richie's older brother Chuck (a character that would abruptly disappear during the second season, with no explanation given until four years later)." —72.75.93.131 06:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sauron in Lord of the Rings books

What about Sauron in Lord of the Rings books? Sure, various characters see "the eye of sauron", but a corporeal Sauron was never shown as in the movies. I have heard that these scenes were taken from the Silmarillion, but even so, since that was published posthumously I think that within the bounds of the Lord of the Rings books, Sauron should count as an unseen or at most partially seen character. --Misfit

I can't recall exactly, as its been a while since I last read the books, and I seem to keep getting him mixed up with Ba'al from Stargate SG1 and Voldemort, but I belive that his actions are described when he was defeated, but after that there was technically nothing to "see". I also read the Silmarillion, so perhaps I am getting it from there... Abhorreo 07:15, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wilson of Home Improvement

Wilson of Home Improvement doesn't count, as we can hear him and see most of him.

Diane, on Twin Peaks, doesn't count either, as we never learn anything about her , and I think she turns out to be a figment of Cooper's imagination anyway.

Fair enough. Couldn't say I've seen more than a few episodes of Home Improvement, and all I remember is Wilson's hat. KF

There's an old British series My Girl & Me ('84-'88) which, if I remember, had a character with an unseen wife, who was a forerunner of Maris Crane. I think her name was Margot. IMDB is no help on this.

I think we saw Will & Grace's Stan's knees in the bath with Karen in one episode. -- Tarquin

[edit] page name?

Shouldn't the name of this page be unseen character so that we could more easily link to this page? (See Wikipedia:Naming conventions) Mrwojo 13:05 Oct 7, 2002 (UTC)

yes, it should. I'll move it.

[edit] Golden Girls' sons

Doesn't Sophia Petrillo -- or whatever her name is (Golden Girls) -- occasionally talk about her son? It's been such a long time that I really don't remember exactly. KF 19:22 Oct 7, 2002 (UTC)

Yes, she talks about her son Phil (who is also a cross-dresser) several times throughout the run of the show. He is married to a lady who Sophia calls "Big Sally". Phil dies in an episode of the show and is buried in a black teddy. He is never seen during the run of the show.T. White 05:23, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red Dwarf removal

I removed:

Kochanski is seen five times (twice in the first series) before becoming a major character in series 7. Captain Hollister is seen three times (twice in the first series) before series 8. --Mrwojo 21:04 Oct 26, 2002 (UTC)

[edit] MASH announcer

Isn't the PA announcer on MASH Igor Straminsky, the cook? Or is it just the same actor lending his voice to an unseen character role? (Or am I completely wrong altogether...) Adam Bishop 21:20, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Wasn't it sometimes Radar or Klinger? —Tamfang 21:42, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Radar and Klinger sometimes used the PA, but the "incoming wounded" and most other general announcements were spoken by someone else. I think I read about it being two men, both appearing sometimes in minor roles (mostly patients). I can't find the source right now though, and IMDb isn't helping either. --Greenb 19:53, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Phantom Dennis

I really don't think Phantom Dennis should qualify for this list - granted, he meets the letter of "unseen and unheard", but that's just because he's invisible and inaudible. He doesn't satisfy the spirit of being an unseen character (pun not intended).

The reason I'm pointing this out here, instead of just taking him off the list, is that I want to prompt a bit of discussion about where the boundaries lie. I think we can agree that Phantom Dennis isn't properly an unseen character, and that - say - Godot is, but what about Harvey?

—Paul A 03:43, 23 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I think the definition should include that a proper unseen character must not be present in any scene. However, this requires a special definition of "present" that excludes, for example, Maris Crane seen through the window by Frasier Crane but outside the frame of the camera. 10:46, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Movies?

How about adding movies to this list ? Jay 08:47, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

If you can think of any examples that weren't TV series or stage plays first, go right ahead. —Paul A 01:35, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Magnum P.I

I think that "Robin Masters, the novelist, on Magnum P.I." should move down to the "Unseen characters who were spoken of for a long time and then eventually seen" section. If memory serves (I'm not really much of a Magnum fan) he turns out to be the butler Higgins. If someone can confirm my shaky memory then I think that the "eventually seen" catagory is probably more appropriate (we don't really need a "unseen characters who turned out to be another character going under another name" section). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:56, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

It was deliberately left ambiguous. (Higgins finally admits to being Masters in the last episode of the series, but then claims he was only kidding.) So "heard but not seen" is probably the safest category. --Paul A 05:54, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] The Fairly Oddparents removal

I removed "Mr. and Mrs. Turner, Timmy's parents, in The Fairly Oddparents. (Only ever shown faceless by the early episodes of the series)". The user seems to be a know vandal, adding false information to articles. I couldn't find any real information on Google about this as well. --Conti 16:10, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I can vouch for that. In the early episodes their faces are not seen and the traditional waist-down-only approach was taken. --kralahome 05:01, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Link checked

I'm fairly sure that the Geoffrey Palmer that is linked to from the Blackadder reference is not the same Geoffrey Palmer that appeared in the series...

[edit] Married with Children

I removed, temporarily: "*Gary, the owner of the shoe store that Al Bundy from Married with Children was seen once in the first season in the 12th episode. It's not until the ninth season, that Gary is seen again. However, this Gary is a woman."

because it's totally ungrammatical and doesn't make sense. I could easily fix the grammar, but to do that I'd need the facts, which I don't know. Does Al WORK in a shoe shop, or just buy stuff there, or what? Is Gary a woman all along or only later, or what? If someone who hads the facts can tidy up this very sloppy edit I'm sure it adds a fine contribution to the article. Graham 01:59, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Al works in the shoe store. At the beginning, Gary was hinted as being a man and in one episode Al paid an actor to pretend to be Gary. Al was trying to impress everyone that he could get Gary to come to the store in person. This is probably what it was referring too. A few seasons later, Gary goes to the shoe store in person and surprises Al and everyone else because Gary turns out to be a woman.
Peg's mother is a better example of an unseen character. Tomsintown 12:32, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Most characters are never fully seen, as they are wearing clothes - Whoa! Revolutionary? :)

[edit] Norm Peterson's wife on Cheers

I recall an episode of Cheers in which the wife of Norm Peterson got a job in the business above the bar. At one point, she is seen from the knees down sitting on the stairs through a window before going back upstairs. I'm certain Norm would have mentioned her in casual conversation before this episode, so I think she should be added to the 'Partially Seen' category.

[edit] Charlie's Angels

What about Charlie in the TV serie Charlie's Angels ? Does someone know if Charlie is ever seen ?

I think part of the point of the series what that he is never or only rarely seen. That should probably be mentioned. Deco 01:13, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
"The second most complete is heard but not seen. This allows the character to speak for him or herself, but allows the viewers to construct their own image of what the character looks like." Such as the voice of Charlie Townsend on the television series Charlie's Angels. You mean like that? For the record in the Barrymore motion picture of this century, we did briefly see the back of his head. ZachsMind 16:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
If memory serves (it was a long time ago), there was an episode of the original series where we saw Charlie from the back in a motorboat. -- Narsil 21:10, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Monkey Island

Does this game really warrent a whole section? Surely it could be condensed.

There is no section for unseen characters in Video and Computer Games. If someone would bother to make one the MI-stuff could be put there.

Okay, I've changed the section to video games, but left the MI entry intact. If anyone wants to add other games, go for it.

[edit] M*A*S*H

Mildred Potter is in fact seen in M*A*S*H—she's in a photograph on Colonel Potter's desk, and he specifically addresses the photograph as if speaking directly to her on several occasions. I think she should be removed from the list entirely. -- Corixidae | Talk 05:07, May 15, 2005 (UTC)

Mildred is introduced in the spinoff series After M*A*S*H

Wasn't Sgt. Pryor, from the episode "Tuttle", Sparky?

Yes, Sparky was in fact seen in that episode. --MartinSL 09:57, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two Golden Girls removals

I have removed the listing of Rose's and Blanche's husbands from this page. Though Blanche's husband (according to the entry I deleted) appeared to her in a dream and said he faked his own death (is information characters learn in a dream "true" story information or a dream?) basicaly both husbands, according to the show's back-story, were dead prior to the first episode. So as they were neither in current contact with the show's current characters, and were not present in any form when the show's events took place, then clearly they don't count as Unseen characters. By that standard, really we could claim that George Washington is an unseen character in The West Wing - clearly not the case. MinorEdit July 5, 2005 11:25 (UTC)

[edit] The purpose of this article

Uhm, what exactly is the purpose of this article? What exactly has a character that wears a mask to do with an unseen character? What has a character whose full name is not know has to do with an unseen character? We can't be serious when we say that any character whose eyes are not seen is a kind of "unseen character". What about characters whose ears or noses are never seen? Some examples look really silly to me.. If noone objects, I will remove references to the names of characters and to characters with masks on, etc.. --Conti|✉ July 5, 2005 20:39 (UTC)

I agree that masked and characters not fully named have nothing to do with Unseen Character. The Unseen Character fulfils a peculiar and specific function in a film, TV series (mainly, each audience member imagines their own, unique vision of this person). Masked and not fully named characters have nothing at all to do with this and are outside the spirit of the Unseen Character (OK, maybe some masked characters do arguably qualify?). Be ruthless in removing masked and unnamed characters. MinorEdit July 5, 2005 22:43 (UTC)

[edit] Enid Kelso

Just curious - when was she heard? As I've said in the Scrubs article, she is seen once, briefly in episode 3-15. I can't remember if she says anything then. RMoloney 6 July 2005 00:46 (UTC)

In a flashback/fantasy in 3-15, Kelso slaps her backside (well, that of a nurse he calls Enid, anyway) with a chart, making her "ooh" a little. Also, in 4-7, when Kelso is trying to get antidepressants from Molly (Heather Graham) and she asks about his dosage, there's a thought sequence where he's hiding pills in sweets, and Enid asks where her cookies (or something like that) are. --Greenb 19:53, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dilbert's Dad

It could be I'm misremembering, but I could have sworn there was a series of strips where Dilbert's mom informs him that she's found his father. All this time, he's been stuck in an All-You-Can-Eat restaurant, trapped by the logic that he always 'could' eat more. Maybe he wasn't shown though... -Fuzzy 6 July 2005 05:16 (UTC)

No, he wasn't shown. Man that was a good show. :( --66.229.183.101 17:57, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Doug's Principal

I think Doug's principal is shown in the final episode (aired on Nickelodeon) of Doug (Doug Graduates / Doug's Bad Trip, episode #50). I remember that Doug goes looking for the principal (since apparently the characters have never seen him either), and while we (the audience) are focusing on him crawling through vents to get to the principal's office, we overlook a speaker at the graduation ceremony who later turns out, according to Skeeter, to be the principal himself. As I said, I don't remember if his face was shown (since the episode excellently directed the audience's attention elsewhere) but I'm damn sure that he at least spoke. --66.229.183.101 17:57, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Snuffleupagus, Frasier's mom, Max

A few characters that are listed here but seem doubtful to me:

  • Mr. Snuffleupagus on Sesame Street was clearly visible to the audience (as well as Big Bird) for years before the other characters saw him.
  • Frasier's mother on Frasier had died before the series began, and she had been seen on Cheers, so she wasn't really an unseen character even before Rita Wilson started playing her in flashbacks on Frasier.
  • Max in the movie Mission: Impossible was clearly seen, just not until the latter part of the film. She's no more an unseen character than the Girl on Bus in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, who first appears after her name is listed in the closing credits. --Metropolitan90 06:29, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
I agree... and I've deleted the following: "* Aloysius Snuffleupagus is one of the Muppet characters on the long-running educational television program for young children, Sesame Street. For many years, Big Bird was the only character on the show who saw him (he only came along when Big Bird was alone). The other characters teased Big Bird when he said he had seen the Snuffleupagus, because they didn't believe there was such an animal, often despite evidence to the contrary (such as an oversized teddy bear that Snuffy had left behind). This was modeled in part on the imaginary friends some young children have." - MinorEdit 02:33, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Seen but not heard - delete?

I personally believe that several - if not all - of the entries in the Seen but not heard section should be deleted. The article is Unseen characters, and the characters listed here do not seem to be unseen characters at all. My understanding of the spirit of this article is that for someone to appear on any part of the page, they must generally speaking remain nearly always unseen, that is, never fully or clearly seen, despite being described by other characters and often apparently in the vicinity or just in the other room. The Seen but not heard section in my understanding of what this article is about should be reserved for characters such as Mr Ditmeyer in The Brady Bunch: often spoken about but never seen except for one brief shot of his head in a single scene where he did not speak. That is, mainly he was an unseen character in spirit for most of the time, except there was one technical appearance. Maybe some deletions are in order? MinorEdit 06:41, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

For the reasons mentioned above (basically, they are not Unseen characters), the following entries have all been removed from Seen but not heard.

  • Maggie Simpson on The Simpsons. Speaks very seldom, and even then not intelligibly. Even as a teenager, in the prediction of Lisa Simpson's future, she never got as far to say a single word. In a Halloween Special episode, she once said "This is indeed a disturbing universe" but it was in an adult man's voice. (Specifically, guest star James Earl Jones' voice). At the end of the episode 'Lisa's First Word' she says "Daddy" (voiced by Elizabeth Taylor in the original airing, however replaced by Nancy Cartwright in syndication) after Homer leaves the room. However, none of the characters hear her do this.* J and G Blockhead from the Gumby claymated television series.
  • Morn on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. A frequent, well-known patron to Quark's bar, Morn is reputed to be quite talkative, but has never been shown to speak a single word. Morn is a homage to the character Norm on Cheers.
  • Leonardo, Clyde Crashcup's assistant in The Alvin Show. He was just silent, and for which he can only speak into Clyde's ear as he whispers.
  • Fungo Squiggly from Get Fuzzy. He is always silent, though he sometimes whispers things unintelligably.
  • Tom and Jerry, an animated cat-and-mouse duo, who didn't talk until they have ideas.

I left two entries there because I am not familiar with those so I'm not certain that they aren't Unseen characters. MinorEdit 23:45, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Empty Nest removal

I have removed the following:

Emily, the "other sister" on Empty Nest, who was often spoken of, but never seen or heard during all the early years the show was on the air. Then several seasons later, Kristy McNicholl's character left the show, and Emily suddenly appeared and became a regular on the show.

For the simple reason that Emily was not an "unseen character" as such. She was simply a character that existed in the show's backstory but lived somewhere else. This does not make her an unseen character. As far as I understand it, an unseen character is a character currently in common interaction with the other characters and someone currently present and active in the story world and who affects things in that world and interacts with the characters we do see. They are just never actually shown in the view of that world presented to viewers of the show. Emily does not fit any of this criteria. MinorEdit 00:09, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] More unseen character queries

Can anyone confirm that the below characters from section Seen but not heard are actually Unseen characters?

or are they just characters you don't speak? This article is unseen characters so only unseen characters should be listed. Though I've not seen the show, French Twist does not sound like an unseen character at all from the way he is described here... I'll start some deletions soon if there aren't too many strong objections MinorEdit 20:48, July 28, 2005 (UTC)


  • Lanny is a semi-regular character, he is just a self-imposed (presumably) mute. Daydream believer2 03:20, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
  • I don't think Teller belongs at all, both because he's always seen, just mute, pantomime really, and because he's not a character, but rather a performer (the listing doesn't even mention their series, just the team). Also, I'm not entirely sure Pee-Wee was even used in the Richie Rich cartoon sieres, just the comics (where it is true, he was usually silent). That's another problem I have with this otherwise very useful list, and which seems worth mentioning: organization. The detailed categorization is given only for the television shows, with the other categories below, and this has led to many characters incorrectly placed: films, TV shows, even some comics characters like Mary Jane Watson ("talked about and eventually seen..."). Some have been moved, but there's still some problems. How should this be handled? Just move the characters to the appropriate category and put in parentheses whether they were voices off, or just a character participating in one-sided phone conversations, or what? The other option seems to be to keep the categories for types ("Heard only," "Heard and partially seen," etc.) and list the mediums under each. Which might be more useful, but poses a problem, for example, with radio shows, where "unseen characters" (or as radio historians often call them, "silent characters" or "off-mike characters") only fit in one category, talked about but never heard. Any thoughts?

Also, I'm going to go ahead and do some deletions, both Teller, and Cobra Commander (one of the masked characters that was left in; if a character always wears a mask, I think that defines the character; wrong category anyway). Aleal 04:35, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

  • I tried to reorganize some characters from movies, comics, webcomics, and video games into the proper categories (I still left Mary Jane Watson, just because I don't feeel like explaining the "talked about and eventually seen" bit). I also took the liberty of removing Teller, and the following:
  • Cobra Commander and Snake Eyes in the Marvel Comics G.I. Joe comic book and animated series. The viewer is never shown Cobra Commander nor Snake Eyes's faces (even in the few scenes and flashbacks where these characters appear 'unmasked,' conveniently positioned shadows, camera angles or 'props' effectively conceal their features) and Snake Eyes never speaks.

I also did a bit of reorganization, simply moving characters (and expanded the radio listing), but still not sure what's to be done in the long term. It also occurs to me that alphabetization (preferably by production rather than character) might be useful, as some of the lists are so long it's hard to tell where to find something (and many, including myself, are probably just tacking on new additions to the end). Also, to add to the discussion, does the article *really* need that paragraph in the intro on McGuffins? (Or mute characters in visual productions, come to that; that seems like it should be a seperate article, perhaps). EDIT: Also removed: *Sham-Fu the Magician, from the Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies series of cartoons. This "character" was from one short only, and is present only as a name on a sign, as owner of the house. Not otherwise mentioned or discussed (no dialogue), so one might as well include every sign or name glimpsed briefly in a production. And also questionable: The bottom half of Kevin, the French stripper from Weebl and Bob has never been seen. I haven't read enough of the comic, but if his face and upper half are seen, I don't think that's enough to qualify him as unseen (whereas I do admit that if only hands, or the tip of a nose or whatnot is seen, it does count, for me anyway). Aleal 05:05, 29 July 2005 (UTC)


I agree with above sentiments... page is too long and strays off the topic with all sorts of oddities getting listed. I've started by deleting the following:
Television show creators can become quite creative. An interesting tactic along the 'unseen character' line is that of the character who never talks, such as Teller of Penn and Teller, or Clarabell the Clown in Howdy Doody. Included in this group would be Morn from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, who, while never shown speaking on screen is referred to by other characters as an incessant chatterbox and the program sometimes cuts away just as he is drawing breath to speak. A different (and somewhat more rare) kind of hidden character is a hidden object or Macguffin, which may be the focus of a plot line but (may) never actually be seen. Hidden objects include the mystical 'fourth elemental flavor of ice cream' in Codename: Kids Next Door, the contents of Rabo Karabekian's potato shed in Bluebeard, and the contents of the suitcase in Pulp Fiction.
If someone really thinks it deserves a place in wikipedia, then that place is an all-new page of its own. MinorEdit 06:24, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Seen but not heard

An anonymous user who seems to be, if not a vandal, at least prone to dubious or downright faulty updates, has been re-adding most of the removed "Seen but not heard" characters (Maggie Simpson, the Blockheads), and adding new ones, like Odie from Garfield (who barks anyway), the Pink Panther, and Wile E. Coyote. Thus, for the present anyway, I just removed that entire section, and again am seriously considering whether to just create a new article, if that would put an end to it.

Also, although I know the article is long enough as is, I'm thinking about whether some categories need fleshing out, like stage plays. Surely there's more examples. One potential one might be "The Voice" aka "Mr. Owen" in Ten Little Indians (yes, it is revealed to come from a pre-recorded record, but still, I wonder), or possibly Yorick in Hamlet (yes he's dead, but Hamlet interacts with his skull as a character, and he's arguably one of the best known characters in the piece, so one wonders...) Just some more thoughts, anyway. Aleal 19:09, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] JD's father in Scrubs

I deleted this:

  • J. D.'s father was mentioned several times in Scrubs but died of a heart attack before he appeared on screen. In fact, actor John Ritter was scheduled to make a guest appearance as the dad, but died of a sudden heart attack before the episode could be filmed.

J.D.'s father appears twice, in episodes 1.19 ("My Old Man") and 2.9 ("My Lucky Day"). He was indeed played by John Ritter, and after Ritter died he was paid tribute to in episode 4.6 ("My Cake"), which revolves around J.D. and his brother mourning the death of their father.

[edit] Gilligan's Island removal

REMOVED:

  • Skinny Mulligan, a friend of Gilligan in Gilligan's Island whose questionable accomplishments were mentioned frequently. Of course, the fact that the crew of the S.S. Minnow were shipwrecked made his appearance impossible.

Reason is that a mere backstory character who is not in the vicinty, not in current contact with the current characters of the show, in no way involved in or exerting influence over current story events, and not populating the current story world, is NOT an unseen character. By that logic George Washington is an unseen character in The West Wing. Asa01 07:24, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'll go along with part about Skinny Mulligan being a backstory character. But your comparison is faulty because, unlike George Washigton, Skinny was mentioned by Gilligan many times in several shows. That and the fact that Skinny was not a famous historical figure; if it weren't for Gilligan, who would have ever heard of Skinny Mulligan?

[edit] Invisible Viänänen

Does Invisible Viänänen really count as an unseen character? He's more like a seen, but invisible, character. Most, if not all, strips of the comic have panels that would prominently feature him, if he were visible. He speaks normally, and manipulates objects. Finally, he always wears a cap, which is very much visible, and serves to show the place where he is. JIP | Talk 08:17, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Maltese Falcon

How about Floyd Thursby from "The Maltese Falcon"? Doberdog 11:04, 11 May 2006 (UTC)doberdog

[edit] Futurama

Is Leela's ex-boyfriend Sean or Shawn mentioned? In the finale she described him in more detail, but mentioned him before then. One of the first times I remember her mentioning him was in Why Must I Be A Crustacean in Love? She responds to some line with "Ugh! If a guy ever did that to me, I'd know it. Wait a second. They've all been doing that to me. Even Shawn!" and then runs out crying.--T. Anthony 09:44, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Scratch that he wasn't in communication with characters at the time. How about Jason Penopolis's parents on Home Movies? I don't think they were ever seen, but the parents of the other two main characters were. Jason's parents were nevertheless important to a few episodes. In one he has to call to explain to his mother who Brendan and Melissa are and in another their being in a country club is important.--T. Anthony 09:54, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorting the examples

Why have sections sorted by whether the character is heard and sections sorted by medium (radio, TV, etc)? Could the two be combined, hybridized, rearranged? The current setup's confusing, and some of the sections are long and unwieldy. Sailorptah 13:08, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peanuts

You do hear an adult's voice in the episode where Charlie Brown acquires Snoopy, if I recall correctly. 128.151.130.17Iain Marcuson

[edit] arrangement

I've sorted two sections by title. That's enough for one day. —Tamfang 23:18, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Duke from Frasier

Martin's frined Duke was reguarly referred to in Frasier, but as far as I can remember never seen or heard. Can anyone confirm? 220.237.34.36 01:19, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brady Bunch

If we're going to include imaginary people like George Glass, AND if we're going to mention that the almost always unseen Ditmeyers were actually realized in the film, then we should also mention that George Glass also was realized in the film. I'd do it, but since I'm anonymous, everything I do gets reverted. 72.145.83.185 02:08, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Missing List

I see the complete list is missing again. What happened to it? RobertCMWV1974 14:16, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

It was deleted, because a few examples are sufficient to illustrate the concept; a list of every unseen character isn't necessary. —tregoweth (talk) 16:31, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
It's just not fun if you don't have all these names listed. So if You have a copy, put it all back. RobertCMWV1974 01:34, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
The list is still stored in the page history [1]. Q0 14:43, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
The thing is, this *had* originally been a "List of Unseen Characters." Clearly there's problems with the list as was, with many items listed for one-shots or characters who may not even have existed (just so and so may have had an unseen brother) and so on. But the current page overlooks examples from other media which differ slightly, like the "off-mike" characters in radio. Clearly this is becoming an edit war of sorts, albeit a minor one, but is there anyway to reach a compromise? I.e. list more than just two examples (and I'm doubtful personally of the claim of Gladys on "December Bride" being the first on TV, especially since "December Bride" itself had introduced the unseen/unheard Gladys while still on radio; for one thing, "The Jack Benny Program" had several pre-December Bride TV episodes featuring the radio show's unseen Frank Remley, though later he was played on-camera bY Elliot Lewis, who also played the role as a speaking character on Phil Harris's show). Maybe some sort of clear criteria to limit the steady stream of examples, many either incredibly obscure or even inaccurate, while still providing a broader coverage of the topic. -- Aleal 21:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I would like to see those names left there. I have a copy of the edit page on My computer to paste. Somebody deleted them again after I pasted them. RobertCMWV1974 01:39, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] To redirect or not redirect

It looks like there are some people who wish this list to be redirected and others who do not. I figure, instead of going back and forth on this issue we should try to resolve it here. I don't know if anyone wants to make a straw poll or do a RfC or simply try and form a consensus here; I'm game either way.

Anyways, since I have found this list to be a practical guide of unseen and semi-seen characters and have visited this page on more than one occasion. I figure, since it's been useful to me, it probably is to many others and should stay. And considering the hundreds of lists on this site (I even believe there is a list of lists of lists page), there is no precedence being set by its existence.

[edit] Do not delete

This is a good list (when the names are actually present.) 68.219.118.125 01:45, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Commercials

I deleted this section and its single entry:

  • The couple in the Country Crock commercials.

As I said in the edit comment, this is Way Too Crufty, and we should kill it before it grows ... allowing the inclusion of fictional characters in television advertisements creates a magnet for unsourced, non-notable (the product was redlinked) trivia, and turns this list into nothing but original research. Trust me, if only to avoid the constant reverts, you do not want to go there! —72.75.93.131 (talk • contribs) 03:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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