Talk:List of portable software
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[edit] LINKS
FIRE FIRE!! Now that I got your attention, and checking previous posts. I propose removing all apps listed which aren't provided a link to the portable version. Why?
- The list is useless if only links to the main software page (as someone pointed , you8 can't get a portable winrar at rarlab.com)
- There are issues of verifiability. Unless a method is given on this talk, giving the portable app url is the onlyu mean to verify such software is indeed portable (anyone can add any program even if it's not TRULY portable).
- Finally, removing portable-as-in-compileable-on-several-platforms should be removed as well. Portable here has a very specific meaning.
What do you think? Unless someone provides strong arguments for doing otherwise I'll do the cleaning up in a few weeks. Note: "opinion" is not the same as "argument" -- Drini 23:09, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- Hmm, tricky. On the one hand, the ability to list items that don't (yet) have their own articles is one of the arguments for using lists instead of categories at Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and series boxes. On the other hand, this list seems to be degenerating into a spammy link farm, full of non-notable products listed solely in the hopes of boosting sales. I tend to think the article should be entirely restructured to make it not-so-easy to just drop your spam-links in. Either that or deleted and replaced by a category. But any cleanup/spam-removal that can be done in the meantime strikes me as a good thing. Xtifr tälk 23:59, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] File Encryption
Added many new entries. Needs much better formatting. If someone could format the entries better that would be nice. Oh and if there is any programs that have already been mentioned take them out.
[edit] Conversion to Category
The call for deletion thing made me think. I've begun work on converting this article into a category. Category:Portable Application This is a lot of work because I want all information in this list to be retained in its category version. To do this, I have to make articles for all the things that don't have them, and I must edit articles for some things to make it clear how to use it as a portable application. If anyone wants to help with this, they're welcome to, this is Wikipedia, after all.
Alright, it seems to be that the conversion from list to category is a NO. I tried turning the Internet list into a category, here is the response I got:
- IMO, the new Internet category is a lot less readable than the Internet group in this article was. The new category has no subsections for app types, and points you to yet another page for entries that don't have a wikipedia page. Formerly, all the entries were together and grouped by type. --4.156.195.209 19:41, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
What is said above is true, so I think this should stay a list as it is. To further to continuity of the article and, therefore, shorten it, I have moved the portable app definition to the portable app article and linked here. All redirects here are now pointed to that page. This article flows much better now.DizzyTech 21:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] When in doubt, ask
The three new items I added today (iCab, a web browser; RagTime, a desktop publishing app; and Hypercard a database app) are all Mac OS programs that I had installed in a 1GB Markvision USB flash drive and tried before completing the list; actually this edition is being made in the copy of iCab that resides in the USB flash drive, from a computer that does not have it installed in its HD. Although I am rather informed and read a bit about these subjects, I am not a computer expert by any means, thus I do not fully undrestand what is meant by: "A portable application is a software program that you can carry around with you on a portable device, such as a USB flash drive and use on any computer without necessarily modifying that computer's hard disk." The apps that I listed are all only-Mac-apps, with the exception of RagTime that also has a Windows version, but it is a separate app. In other words, I could not load and run the copy of RagTime that I have installed in my USB Flashcard in a Windows-operated computer, although, I could install a Windows version of RagTime in my USB flash drive and run it. Then, I ask if my listings are bona fide portable apps or not; I think they are. I would like some feedback from other users. Vale, Lcgarcia 22:04, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, the definition I wrote for a portable app isn't very exact. From your explanation, yes, I think RagTime and iCab are ok to be listed here. Thanks for the additions. Gflores Talk 22:48, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] TrueCrypt?
Does TrueCrypt belong in this list? While TC volumes are portable (they are self-contained files), and entire USB drives can be encrypted with the software, I believe use of TrueCrypt requires installation of the software by someone with Administrator rights, at least on WinXP. The software seems to create a virtual driver to mount encrypted volumes. Perhaps this limitation is only applicable to WinXP, but if not, I propose removing TrueCrypt from the list.
As an aside, after having a laptop stolen a few years ago, I've looked at a number of encryption solutions, but haven't found the magic bullet that combines strength, portability and ease of use.Jim Lipsey 19:30, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
TrueCrypt will run without being installed on a local PC from a USB flash drive, but it will only work when run under an account in Windows 2000/XP with administrative rights. As such, it is actually a portable app (in my opinion) it just has more limitations than most portable apps. CritterNYC 22:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
In an attempt, apparently, to short-circuit discussion, someone wiped a comment asking if this entry is even encyclopedic. I have the same question myself. But maybe I'm biased, since I preferred the original Wikipedia policy that lists were "unencyclopedic" by definition.
"Portable application" to any software developer denotes an application whose source code can be recompiled on multiple platforms easily. Even for the definition given, does one include programs that can be source-recompiled to be portable, ones that can be induced to look for config files on the pen drive, or only ones that natively look in the application directory? All three seem to be here. What is the encyclopedic value of this? It's more of a helpful guide to compiling a set of apps. That's useful, but not strictly speaking, pedagogical.
[edit] Make "local storage" a must feature for being "portable"?
We have two different requirements for an app to be portable:
- no need for install
- can be made to store its files locally (right besides the app) instead of the local host system
Can somebody tell me whether there is actually a need for apps that are "portable" (so one loads them on a usb-stick and walks from machine to machine), don't have to be installed, yet store their files on the local system? If there is no need, why don't we change the line
- "Ideally it can be configured to read its configuration from the same location as the software, for increased portability"
to
- "Portable apps can be configured to read its configuration from the same location as the software, for increased portability"
i.e., the "local storage" feature is not optional, but a required feature to meet the definition of "portable". Peter S. 11:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I wrote that line. The reason I wrote it was I don't think there's actually a recognized definition of the term "portable application" so I was intentionally trying to point out that there's ambiguity there. I'd rather keep that ambiguity than attempt to invent a definition here on wikipedia, which I think is not appropriate. If it can be cleaned up to be more readable that would be great though, I'm not always tops at style. My vote is to not try to strictly define "portable application".
12.205.149.45 22:34, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion a 100% portable application require:
- no need for install (well, only the first time you install it on portable drive)
- read its configuration from the same location as the software (this mean that you have your bookmark, buddylist, preferences, extension, plugins etc. always with you).
- don't leave any footprint on local host system when quit (with the exception of tmp file).
So following this definition all Mac OS X applications are not "portable" as all preferences and Applications Support files are stored on user home directory on local host system. This means that if you just open an application form a portable drive you get preferences from local host user and not yours.
Cgand 15:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
- This definition sounds good. And with this definition, it would actually make sense to list certain mac apps. How about if we go through the whole list and remove all apps that are only "semi-portable"? We could move them into a different page (like "List of semi-portable applications") if somebody complains. Comments? Peter S. 00:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
- What do you mean with "semi-portable"?. Are all those apps that don't "keep settings on the drive"? As I think that "keeping settings on the drive" is the most important feature of a portable app. Cgand 13:42, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
CritterNYC 21:56, 20 April 2006 (UTC) I agree with Cgand. In order to be portable, an app can't store its settings on the local machine. Though perhaps listing semi-portable applications as well would be of use to some people (as, admittedly, some apps you don't need the settings with them and may not care about leaving a config file or two behind on a computer you use it on).
-
- I'd say that listing such "semi portable" applications would be pretty pointless, they really ought to be removed from this list - practically all applications that are less than the size of a USB drive (say 256MB!) could be considered "portable" in that case, by simply stuffing them on a USB drive and leaving them to setup the registry when first run (most applications will do this). Defining "portable applications" as those that leave a zero footprint on the computer they're run on (including configuration) makes a lot more sense. Nuwewsco 08:14, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Article For Deletion
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This article was nominated for deletion on 14 April 2006. The result of the discussion was keep. An archived record of this discussion can be found here. |
[edit] AppOnKey dueling deletions
CritterNYC 21:53, 20 April 2006 (UTC) Someone at AppOnKey.com had been removing PortableApps.com and posting themselves on the top of the external links list. This was apparently retribution for them being banned from the PortableApps.com forums for spamming that site, EverythingUSB.com, and a few other websites and was brought to my attention by members of PortableApps.com. AppOnKey probably doesn't belong in the list of external sites as they don't actually have any apps but it seems that when someone deletes them, they assume it is PortableApps.com and, in turn, delete that entry from the external sites list. I'm leaving them in the list of external sites for now, though someone else may also feel they should be removed.
[edit] Some concerns
I have a few concerns about the subject matter and examples of this article. First, while it mentions "software portability" (with a non-existent link), I fail to see how "portable software" and "software portability" can somehow be distinguished by speakers of English. They are, to most of us, two different forms of the same thing, like "peculiar individual" and "individual peculiarity" are related. And traditionally, any program could be described as "portable" if it would compile (and in the case of interpreted languages, run) on more than one platform. It is inadvisable to overload the same term with multiple definitions.
Second, I do not believe this is not worthy of its own focus. It is akin to saying programs that store user-specific data in a centralized location are radically different than programs that store user-specific data in users' home directories. It is merely a different way to store the same data.
Third, the definition "this is a list of software programs that are not required to be 'installed' onto a computer's permanent storage device to be executed" is inaccurate: no executable needs to be "installed" to be run. The data on the device always has to be copied into system memory in order to be executed, so it doesn't matter where it comes from. The only difference between the programs this article references and other programs is where they store configuration information, and whether or not they register themselves with the system (which is a concept specific to Windows, as most other operating systems do not maintain a centralized list of installed applications).
Fourth, Live CDs do not fit this definition. CD-Rs can only be written once, and so most Live CDs create RAM disks and store (modified) configuration data there (or store no configuration data at all, which is quite rare). Though RAM disks disappear when the system is restarted, they are distinctly separate from the CDs themselves.
Fifth, some software (like U3) claims to meet this definition, but in fact does not. U3 applications modify the registry (which is most certainly not stored on the removable media), and leave behind files in the "Application Data" subdirectory of the user's home directory—in accordance with the definition, not only should these files not be left behind, they shouldn't exist in the first place.
Sixth, if this article is going to function as both a list and a definition, then it needs to include criticism. And I am more than happy to begin that list with some of my own:
- As I mentioned above, this is not a radical concept. It is simply a different way to store configuration information.
- There may be a performance hit, if the device cannot be read/written to as fast as the local hard drive (for whatever reason).
- This can be, in the long term, damaging: constantly writing to flash memory can wear it out (see Flash memory).
- It might be wise to call this something like "Portable Windows Software," as most of these programs are distributed only in binary form, and only execute on Windows.
—Kbolino 05:48, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Extra links
Why does this link to "List of open source software packages, list of Unix programs, list of GNU packages, list of KDE applications, list of GNOME applications, freeware, shareware, public domain, proprietary software."? None of those have any bearing on portable applications. 71.123.31.237 17:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
-
- Agreed, they're not particularly relevant (now removed). If anyone wants to add them back in, it would make more sense to link to the relevant categories instead. Nuwewsco 08:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] cdburnerxp?
are you sure cdburnerxp is portable? it might just be me, but ive tried it once or twice before and it didnt end up working for me sweecoo 16:11, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Cleanup
I have done allover clean-up in (nearly) all sections of the article. It is not very useful to have a description like "portable mp3 editor for your music", when it is in a List of portable software article, in the section of Music/Editors and the application name is like MP3 editor. The description is simply obvious from its location. Also, when all (or many) mp3 editors do the same, I do not think it is necessary to repeat it for each single link. Thus I have removed obvious descriptions and simplified the list. I have left descriptions in the sections like miscelaneous, when it was not obvious. jsimlo 13:40, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Tidy
I have done some reordering and I have cleaned-up links to the form of: APP NAME (site) - Important notes on portability usage. If I have deleted something important or valuable, please add it back. jsimlo 13:40, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sections Internet and Networking
Both section Internet and Networking seems to contain the same type of applications. E.g. Web brosers vs. ftp clients. Telnet vs. P2P. I suggest to merge the sections into one single section of Internet and create sebsections like:
- Internet
- Clients
- FTP
- RSS
- Search
- Telnet, SSH
- WEB
- Wiki
- Messaging
- IM
- IRC
- Servers
- FTP
- WEB
- Clients
Any ideas? jsimlo 13:55, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
- No objections here. Good work on the cleanup. :) 70.104.16.8 01:59, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Belarc
I'm going to remove Belarc Advisor from the list, as it appears to be an installer program, not a standalone. -anon
[edit] Is it really portable?
I think there's a major problem with this page: while many of the links go directly to portable versions of the software (e.g. Abiword Portable), or are links to software that is inherently portable (e.g. PStart), most of them just go to the main product page (or worse, the developer's root page) with no instruction on how to make that app portable. It doesn't really help much to say, for example, that WinRAR is a portable app by linking to www.rarlab.com. After all, it's not as if you can do a default install of WinRAR on a flash drive and expect it to work on any other computer, what with all the shell integration, registry entries, etc. etc. -- Hux 06:19, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
-
- I would have said it would make more sense the only applications listed here were those which can be downloaded in a "portable form" by the distributer. Otherwise, practically *every* app which comes in (for example) an installshield installer, which doesn't use the registry, can be called "portable" - you just have to install it, copy it to a portable drive, and uninstall it to make that software "portable". Nuwewsco 19:15, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Classification Advice
Would it be possible to classify all of the software in separate pages. For example, not just purpose or type of software, but also whether or not the software is open source and how easy it is to compile from it's open source part.
[edit] Open source Web Design Software
Is there any place where people have open source web design software? Is it possible to direct readers to this?
--DaNuke
[edit] Deleted??
I have just reverted the page because someone deleted all the text on it. Was there a reason it was deleted that I overlooked?
StevenA 07:37, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
