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Hi all,
There are several instances of the colours of the Dutch political parties on different graphs, maps, and tables.
I think it would be highly beneficial to come up with a list of RGB values (both hexadecimal and decimal) for use in all articles and graphics relating to the Dutch political parties
Different colour schemes are to be found in:
I have constructed the following set (based on the ZetelsTK pie chart) RGB values
| colour |
party |
full Hex RGB |
R-hex |
G-hex |
B-hex |
R-dec |
G-dec |
B-dec |
| x |
PvdD |
d88c34 |
d8 |
8c |
34 |
216 |
140 |
52 |
| x |
D66 |
2cc800 |
2c |
c8 |
00 |
44 |
200 |
0 |
| x |
GL |
15803c |
15 |
80 |
3c |
21 |
128 |
60 |
| x |
Sp |
FF0000 |
FF |
00 |
00 |
255 |
0 |
0 |
| x |
Pvda |
920c19 |
92 |
0c |
19 |
146 |
12 |
25 |
| x |
CU |
3fafd0 |
3f |
af |
d0 |
63 |
175 |
208 |
| x |
CDA |
339933 |
33 |
99 |
33 |
51 |
153 |
51 |
| x |
vvd |
0e2783 |
0e |
27 |
83 |
14 |
39 |
13 |
| x |
SGP |
ff8000 |
ff |
80 |
00 |
255 |
128 |
0 |
| x |
PVV |
043555 |
04 |
35 |
55 |
67 |
85 |
85 |
Other colour schemes are of course fine with me; as long as they do justice to the common standard (ie red-socialist) and the colours are clearly different from eachother. Arnoutf 17:25, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
| ff9900 |
| cc9966 |
| 993300 |
| ff0099 |
| cc6699 |
| 990033 |
| 99ff00 |
| 99cc66 |
| 339900 |
| 00ff99 |
| 66cc99 |
| 009933 |
| 9900ff |
| 9966cc |
| 330099 |
| 0099ff |
| 6699cc |
| 003399 |
| cc0000 |
| cc3333 |
| 993333 |
| 00cc00 |
| 33cc33 |
| 339933 |
| 0000cc |
| 3333cc |
| 333399 |
| cccc00 |
| cccc33 |
| 999933 |
| cc00cc |
| cc33cc |
| 993399 |
| 00cccc |
| 33cccc |
| 339999 |
| ff0000 |
| bb0000 |
| bb4444 |
| 00ff00 |
| 00bb00 |
| 44bb44 |
| 0000ff |
| 0000bb |
| 4444bb |
| ffff00 |
| bbbb00 |
| bbbb44 |
| ff00ff |
| bb00bb |
| bb44bb |
| 00ffff |
| 00bbbb |
| 44bbbb |
| 00ff00 |
| 00cc00 |
| 008800 |
| 44ff44 |
| 44cc44 |
| 448844 |
| 88ff88 |
| 88cc88 |
| CDA |
| GL |
| D66 |
| SP |
| PvdA |
| CU |
| VVD |
| PVV |
| SGP |
| PvdD |
- Ah, a talk page before there is even an article. I'm always in for something new. :) Also, I'm a great advocate of standardisation and into colours (photography) and webdesign, so I'm in. Sorry if I got a bit carried away (considering the amount of text I've produced once again).
- A major consideration with standardisation is always that it has to be flexible enough for future developments, in this case for the emergence of new political parties, but I don't see how we could do that here. Also, there are the former parties, which sometimes appear together with the existing ones, like in your Image:Dutchparlseats2.png, but picking colours for those should come after these. Another cosideration here is that it should, if possible, follow international conventions. In this light Political colour is a potentially useful article. And of course the official colours of the parties have to be taken into consideration. Another general consideration is that black text against those backgrounds should ideally be legible. I suppose that's why you added those x's. Oh, and they have to come out right not only as blocks of colour, but also as lines in a graph. Too many considerations for now, but I thought I'd better jot them down. For example, those last two considerations together limit the choices too much, so maybe the background colour for text option should be dropped.
- The easiest colour is blue for VVD. PVV being off-blue somehow fits. But in both cases the x isn't too visible, so maybe they could be made a little lighter. Christenunie has that colour blue in its logo, so that makes sense. The next easy colour is red for the socialist parties, in casu PvdA and SP. SP being tomato-red is appropriate. The official PvdA colour is a little darker, but not that dark, and it doesn't need to be to distinguish it easily from SP. The colours of SGP are blue and orange and the latter is an obvious choice.
- So far not too many problems, but now comes the colour green, which is used by the four remaining parties CDA, GL, D66 and PvdD. I've added some shades of green to the right for 'inspiration'. :) CDA and D66 really have green as 'their' colour. The green you give for CDA seems slightly lighter than that colour. And your D66 colour is a little brighter than the official colour. I don't know if PvdD has an official colour, but one they use a lot is a dark green, so that might be a good idea. Of course we can't have four greens, but GL has two colours, red and green. I don't think red is too appropriate for GL, but what if we combine those two colours? Ok, that gives yellow. A colour not yet used, but not one that many parties would want to be associated with and it may not stand out enough against a white background. I played around with it a bit, but it keeps on coming out like yellow, orange or the colour of baby shit (or food, for that matter). :)
- To the left what I came up with so far, with easier colour codes (the second, fourth and sixth position are really just for tweaking) and with the 'competing' colours next to each other for comparison. This is nowhere near definitive yet, but I'm getting a little tired and would like to 'retire'. :) DirkvdM 20:39, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
- Improved it a bit. First off, there's a colour overview at Hex triplet#Web-safe colors, but I've made a shorter one here (before I found that). And there's another consideration. Not everyone will have as good a monitor is I have. I wonder if the use of the characters 0 3 6 9 c f is better in this respect than the 0 4 8 b f I often use (which is not equidistant, by the way). So I added another table. Not quite a complete list, but it gives an indication of the usefulness of various colours. Blue always comes out rather dark with this approach.
- Another useful colour is purple. Could be used for a catholic party, but we don't have that :) It's close to blue so that would be fitting for PVV. Maybe shades of purple could be used for parties that come and go. Sorry about the assumption. Ok, new right-wing parties then.
- I've made PvdD brown, like you did, because a third green won't work. A disadvantage is that in a curve showing the development of number of seats over time PvdD and SGP might stay close together and not be too easily distinguishable. Also, brown is a colour associated with fascism. Hmmm ...
- The list I have now uses only the characters 0 3 6 9 c f, but that might be a bit too restricting. DirkvdM 08:59, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
| PvdD |
| GL |
| D66 |
| SP |
| PvdA |
| CDA |
| VVD |
| CU |
| PVV |
| SGP |
- One major change I am now thinking of is to make the colour for CDA dark purple. It's the papal colour and it's close to blue and CDA is a centre-right-wing party. Also, it makes room for PvdD, whose orientation in the internationally understood colours is ecological, so they should really have green. And it rids them of the fascist connotation. This frees brown for PVV (oops). It would also make sense to give the christian parties similar colours, but I don't see a good scheme for that. Political colour suggests orange. But three different shades of orange??
- Anyway, The three traditionally big parties now each have a dark colour, with the obvious red and blue, and CDA in the middle with purple, nicely reflecting the political spectrum. DirkvdM 09:33, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
CDA in purple may be a solution. Three shades of orange would be orange, yellow and brown.... For parties no longer represented I suggest to use less saturated (ie grayer) versions of the agreed upon colours. That means we should restrain from using greyish colours for current partices. In practice that would come down to adding a gray value towards which to center the colours (the distinguishiability is imho less essential there but continuous development is.) That would be something like:
Arnoutf 21:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
- Looks great, except for the CDA, its colour is green, other wise use yellow or orange, but purple is too confusing (Purple cabinets!) C mon 23:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
| ffff00 |
| ffcc33 |
| cccc33 |
| cc9933 |
| 999933 |
| 999966 |
| cc9933 |
- I thought about that, but that's a cabinet, not a party. And the confusion would only arise if the word were written. But in reality, only the colour will be shown. With the purple cabinets that was the other way around - the word was used, but have you ever seen the colour purple represent it? Also, with the limited selection of easily distinguishable colours, I don't think we can afford to drop any major ones. (Which also means yellow is still available).
- Using greyish colours for former parties sounds like a good idea. One problem is that this philosophy should remain valid for decades, and what to do then when present parties merge into a new party? Should their colours then change? I've added another table in the overview above. There were the three primary colours red green and blue and the 'even' combinations of two those (three would make grey). I have now added uneven combinations. These might be reserved for such new parties. The orange for SGP being the only exception. (And brown - see below.) Alas the dark versions of these don't add too much.
- D66 now has such a greyish colour, so that would have to change. Greyish colours are created by using colour-values that are closer together. This also goes for CU and PVV in my scheme above. With PVV that isn't as visible, but it really is a greyish version of yellow. So maybe PVV could get yellow.
- At the moment (!) in the Netherlands we have more left wing than right wing parties. And there have also been many christian parties (what if a muslim party were to arise? - complications, complications).
| PvdD |
| D66 |
| PVV |
LPF |
LN |
CP |
CD |
| GL |
CPN |
PSP |
PPR |
EVP |
| SP |
| PvdA |
DS'70 |
| CDA |
KVP |
ARP |
CHU |
BP |
RKPN |
KNP |
| SGP |
| VVD |
PvdV |
AOV |
U55+ |
NMP |
| CU |
RPF |
GVP |
- What I propose is the three basic colours red for left wing, blue for (liberal) right wing and green for ecological (roughly) and the combined colours purple/orange for christian and yellow/brown for conservative (far) right wing. We need the extra colours on the right because blue doesn't have too many useful variations. I'm still not sure about CU. It's a christian ecological party, which, however, itself uses blue. I've made GL a little darker.
- Now for the former parties. Arnout, your example of GL poses a problem. The resulting party is now best known for being ecological, but the constituent parties were above all left wing. Making CPN green would be very odd indeed. I'd say the colours should represent the old party itself more than the new one. In most instances (CDA, CU) that won't be a problem, but in the case of GL it is. Also, the major left wing parties aren't combinations of former parties, so that leaves some room for shades of red. Alas greyish red is a bit like brown, the intended opposite here.
- I don't know too well what those old parties were like, so correct me where I'm wrong.
- In the ordering, I grouped the conflicting (similar) colours together as much as possible. I don't suggest that CP and CD are fore-runners of LPF and PVV, it just comes out that way when you group the conservative right wing parties together. That's why I've distinguished between the two by using yellow vs brown. Similar, but different.
- What I haven't used now are the grey shades of green, so D66 could have kept that after all. And PSP is now pink. What if we ever get a gay party? :)
- Anyway, this should still be tweaked a bit more, but I'm not going to do that until there is agreement to use this rough scheme. DirkvdM 11:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I have some problems with this:
- D66 is a social-liberal party and not green, how about using purple for them? It seems quite fitting between VVD and PvdA
- Why not exempt the CPN from the predecessors of GL category instead of making all red? (Which is very illogical for the non-socialist PPR and EVP). Make the CPN green and the others shades of green.
- Why not make the Christian Democratic parties yellow; why not apply this to the SGP and the CU: this is logical for two reasons
- It makes the three main currents of Dutch politics (liberal, socialist and Christian-democratic) the three primary colours
- It has many shades which can be used for the great range of christian democratic parties, including orange.
- Use grey for the non-classifyable/populist parties like the PvdV, LPF, CD, CP, including the AOV, U55+ and NMP-bloc which should not be classified as liberal.
- It would look like this for the parties currently represented in parliament
- - C mon 15:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
-
- Just to note, the original colours I used for the political parties are those from the parties' websites. That was for me an easy option to not get into discussions about what pillar parties should be put into. And no, brown or yellow is not an option for the PVV, even though User:DirkvdM likes that colour apparently. Intangible2.0 17:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
-
-
- Actually, I don't like those colours because they have too little variation. So I gave them to a smaller group of parties. And brown is often associated with the extreme right, so that fits. DirkvdM 08:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
| ff0000 - red |
| ffff00 - yellow |
| 00ff00 - green |
| 00ffff - cyan |
| 0000ff - blue |
| ff00ff - magenta |
- The three primary colours are red-green-blue (RGB), not red-yellow-blue. This is a common misconception. Yellow is one of the three combinations of those colours. See the table to the right. Like I said, the fact that I'm into colours is one reason I picked this issue up.
- The idea was to use similar colours for similar parties. Green for D66 was indeed a matter of picking something that was left because they are hard to categorise and their party colour is green and they're one of the more green parties (well, not very, but they claim to strive for that). If we are to use similar colours for similar ideologies and lighter colours for extinct parties (Arnout's suggestion, and it makes sense) then yellow is a very bad choice for CDA because of the proliferation of christian parties. Historically that's 12 out of 31 parties (PPR, EVP, CDA, KVP, ARP, CHU, RKPN, KNP, SGP, CU, RPF and GVP), so over a third. We need a colour that has more easily discernible shades. Funny, I also suggested purple for CDA because it's between PvdA and VVD. But yellow is a realy bad choice. The three in my table are just about it. And even those are hard too similar.
- Red for CPN makes too much sense. There are really only two clear internationally unambiguously understood political colours: red for left-wing and green for environmentalist (blue usually means right-wing, but that's not as strict). So making CPN green would be very confusing. Important here is whether the colour of a fromer party should represent the party itself or the party it merged into. I opted for the former and still prefer that. PPR and EVP could indeed be made more purple.
- CU is still an issue. They're mostly christian, but there simply isn't another shade of purple left. Blue is their official colour, but green is indeed not a bad choice for them.
- And blue is usually the colour for right-wing, not liberal, so that's how I used it. DirkvdM 08:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
-
- Actually yellow is one of the primary colours for pigment (paint etc). but not for light. You're right in that, but most people (including wikipedia wikipedia) mention it first when it comes to primary colours : if we branch out to shades of light green and orange, like I did, there are enough options.
- Purple really is the obvious choice for D66, explicitly combining both social and liberal politics (social-liberalism) and advocating a purple coalition for a long time.
- Red for the CPN it is; maybe better also move the Pacifist Socialist Party to the red collumn too.
- PPR and EVP are difficult to classify, so forcing them to eat up space from the Christian-democratic parties, of which there is already so little, seems a bad idea, shades of green seem very logical historically (especially read the PPR article on wikipedia: it's very green)
- And yet the AOV was neither a rightwing party, it was a party for the elderly! (i.e. leftwing populist). For other parties, including populists and nationalists grey seems very logical.
- I've moved and update my proposal accordingly
- - C mon 09:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Nice classification, perhaps make a bit more specific per 'bloodgroup'. And adjust some of the most dark and or painful to the eye colors (PSP purple toned down a bit) Arnoutf 11:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
| Current |
colour scheme |
Party colours |
| Liberal |
blue hues |
VVD |
D66 |
PvdV |
| Socialist |
red hues |
PvdA |
SP |
DS70 |
CPN |
PSP |
| Christian |
yellow hues |
CDA |
CU |
SGP |
RPF |
GPV |
ARP |
CHU |
KNP |
RKPN |
KVP |
| Green |
green |
GL |
PvdD |
PPR |
EVP |
| Rest/populist |
unsaturated |
PVV |
AOV |
U55+ |
CD |
CP |
BP |
LN |
LPF |
NMP |
I can agree with making making the colour less aggressive and more pastel, but your classification removed some of the subtlies I included. I've tried to include all post 1918 parties now.
| Current |
Sub-Current |
Color |
| Liberal |
Conservative liberal |
Blue |
VVD |
PvdV |
LSP |
| Liberal |
Progressive liberal |
Purple |
D66 |
VDB |
| Socialist |
Socialist |
Red |
PvdA |
SP |
DS70 |
CPN |
PSP |
SDAP |
| Christian |
Catholic |
Yellow/Orange |
KNP |
RKPN |
KVP |
RKSP |
AB |
RKVP |
| Christian |
Protestant |
Yellow |
ARP |
CHU |
| Christian |
Orthodox protestant |
Green/Grey |
CU |
SGP |
RPF |
GPV |
HGS |
| Christian |
Protestant Left |
Green |
EVP |
BCS |
CSP |
CDP |
CDU |
| Christian |
Oecumenical |
Yellow |
CDA |
| Green |
Green |
Green |
GL |
PvdD |
PPR |
| Other |
Populist |
Grey |
PVV |
LPF |
| Other |
Elderly interest |
Khaki |
AOV |
U55+ |
| Other |
Middleclass interest |
Blue-grey |
NMP |
BP |
PB |
MPSL |
| Other |
Nationalist |
Grey-Brown |
CD |
CP |
NSB |
Ah I understand. I would not put Orthodox protestant as a separate group though. SGP qualifies but CU is already borderline Left. (You could as easily ague that the CDA/CHU/KVP are pragmatic christian rather than true christian). The basis of your colour system seems reasonably well thought true. Let us at least focus for now on giving the currently represented parties good colours. I doubt the D66, CU and the PVV proposal in that regard. Arnoutf 15:43, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
- Feel free to change it to more pastel colour etc and choosing more appropriate colours, as long as this scheme is more or less intact. About the CU being christian-social, all the parties there are either Christian-socialist or merged into explicitly non-religious leftwing parties, I don't see the CU doing that yet: for me they are still best classified as orthodox reformed. C mon 17:41, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Ok playing a bit with history now using your colours (not definite or accurate just to see how it may look when we add parent party info etc.) Actually I think this is not too bad as basic scheme Arnoutf 20:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
| Current |
Sub-Current |
Color |
Now |
Parents |
| Liberal |
Progressive liberal |
Purple |
D66 |
| Liberal |
Conservative liberal |
Blue |
VVD |
PvdV |
LSP |
| Liberal |
Progressive liberal |
Purple |
VDB |
| Socialist |
Socialist |
Red |
PvdA |
|
|
|
SDAP |
| Christian |
Protestant Left |
Green |
CDU |
CSP |
CDP |
BCS |
|
|
|
DS70 |
|
|
|
SP |
CPN |
| Green |
Green |
Green |
GL |
|
|
|
PPR |
|
|
|
PSP |
|
|
|
EVP |
|
|
|
PvdD |
| Christian |
Oecumenical |
Yellow |
CDA |
CHU |
| Christian |
Protestant |
Yellow |
ARP |
| Christian |
Catholic |
Yellow/Orange |
KVP |
KNP |
RKPN |
RKSP |
AB |
|
|
|
|
RKVP |
| Christian |
Orthodox protestant |
Green/Grey |
CU |
RPF |
|
|
|
GPV |
HGS |
|
|
|
SGP |
| Other |
Populist |
Grey |
PVV |
LPF |
| Other |
Elderly interest |
Khaki |
none |
AOV |
U55+ |
| Other |
Middleclass interest |
Blue-grey |
none |
NMP |
BP |
PB |
MPSL |
| Other |
Nationalist |
Grey-Brown |
none |
CD |
CP |
NSB |
Looks okay, I've moved the CDU up, because of its links with the PvdA. C mon 23:27, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
- I'm still not too enthousiastic about using yellow for christian parties. Purple simply has more variations than yellow, which are at the same time similar to each other (but still mutually discernible) and dissimilar to other colours. Purple solves both these problems. The variations of true yellow are too much alike and the other variations (as used here) are too much like red.
- But if we go for this basic scheme, this version also needs some more work because several colours are very similar. That's why I arranged the parties in my overview according to colour similarity. D66-VDB is less of a problem because they're not contemporary. But DS70 and CPN were. But even similar colours for non-contemporary parties is not such a good idea.
- SGP really should get orange. That makes too much sense. Especially if yellow is used for Christian parties.
- I also thought about using grey, but my gut feeling told me that would lead to problems. Then again, it would be fitting for AOV and U55+. :)
- And there is still the issue of tex being visible on the colours. Some are too dark for that. A new thought. Maybe dark colours should be used for extinct parties, in stead of lighter colours.
- Also, why use such complicated codes? Do you use a colour picker perchance? Understanding the system and finding new colours is easier when simpler codes are used. For example, the code for CHU is FBEC5D, but why not make that FFEE55? Looks pretty much the same. DirkvdM 11:20, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
-
- And yet purple is more logical for a social-liberal party (re+blue), instead of a party which is neither social or liberal (neither red or blue).
- If you can disentangle similarities while keeping the basic schema in place feel free.
- Why should the SGP be orange?
- Actually if we use it four the four images & templates above (Template:Netherlands general election, 2006, Image:ZetelsTK2006.png, Image:Netherlands municipalities results 2006.png, Image:Dutchparlseats2.png, image:dutchpolland.png) we never need to write in them at all.
- I actually used articles like orange (colour) and the templates beneath them and searched on basis of that. C mon 13:08, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
- PVV does not descend from LPF but from VVD. --Gerrit CUTEDH
| ff00ff |
ff00cc |
cc00ff |
| |
ff0088 |
8800ff |
| ff88ff |
ff88cc |
cc88ff |
| ffccff |
| cc00cc |
cc0088 |
8800cc |
| cc66cc |
cc6688 |
8866cc |
| 990099 |
990066 |
660099 |
| 996699 |
-
-
- Like I said above, orange would make sense for SGP because they use that colour in their logo, because political colour says it's often associated with christian parties and also because it's probably the most monarchist party. But that's not very important.
- You want to use blue for liberal, but it's more commonly used for rightwing (aka conservative) parties. As in 'true blue'. But as D66 shows, there is also the social aspect of liberalism. I gave the christian parties purple for a similar reason you gave it to D66. CDA is traditionally the party between VVD (blue) and PvdA (red). Also, purple is "one of the liturgical colors in Christian symbolism". But for me practical considerations are always very important. Like I said, there is a great abundance of christian parties in Dutch politics and purple has many more discernible, yet similar, colours than yellow. Different shades of yellow are too similar or, if you want to avoid similarity, you quickly end up with something that isn't yellow anymore, as the last three tables show. By contrast, the table to the right shows a much richer variation of colours, which are nevertheless very similar. Except some in the middle, but this is just a systematic reference table. Also not all really purple, but what's in a name. As long as the colours are perceived as belonging together. Try doing that with yellow. So yellow should be reserved for a political corner that doesn't see too many parties. DirkvdM 19:17, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
