Talk:List of notable post-1960 Florida hurricanes

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Contents 1 Katrina 2 Other storms 3 Wilma 4 Pics 5 Hurricane Wilma 6 Todo 7 List Article? 8 FA nominee? 9 Start-class 10 Merge? 11 Article renamed

[edit] Katrina

Does Hurricane Katrina merit addition to the page,or was the impact not "catastrophic" enough on Florida despite the apparently imminent historic effect on Louisiana?--Louis E./le@put.com/12.144.5.2 16:15, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

I would leave it off the list for now, as it wasn't exactly "catastrophic" in Florida. Major, yes. Catastrophic, no. If there was a page for Catastrophic Gulf Coast Hurricanes, Katrina would be at the top of it. The effects on Florida will be badly overshadowed by the likely catastrophic devastation in Louisiana and Mississippi. CrazyC83 16:34, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Agreed

E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 01:31, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Other storms

Hurricane Donna probably merits inclusion on this list. --69.86.16.61 04:04, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Donna is on the 1900-1960 list. Some I am wondering if they should be added to this list:

• Hurricane Betsy (1965, south part) - Swinging Across The Keys
• Hurricane Frederic (1979, Panhandle) - Destruction at the State Line
• Hurricane Elena (1985, much of the Gulf coast) - Confused in the Gulf
• Hurricane Dennis (2005, Panhandle) - The Early Bird

CrazyC83 20:32, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

If Betsy, Frederic, Elena, and Dennis are added, then shouldn't a new list of Catastrophic Florida Hurricanes be made? Perhaps Catastrophic Florida Hurricanes: 2004-present (Or 2000-present, to show the start of a new century)? Otherwise, there'd be 13 storms on the list. The previous list, from 1900-1960 has only eight storms listed and the 1961-present list has nine storms listed.--Cool Genius 15:24, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Betsy, Frederic and Elena did not cause enough damage in Florida to merit inclusion here. Hurricane Donna is mentioned here: Catastrophic Florida Hurricanes: 1900-1960. No a new article is not necissary yet. Dennis will probably be included, but I'd prefer to wait until the end of the season so I have all the information I need to put together an accurate section.

E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 05:44, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wilma

Suggestion for the Wilma headline: The Long Train Running (in the context of affecting many areas, with Florida just one stop on the long line of destruction). CrazyC83 02:19, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

I like it, but it's vague. I had to read your explanation to get the reference. It should also be a specific reference to the Florida landfall. Something like Downtown Blast, or Smashing Towers, or, to continue your train reference: End of the Line (although that is probably too generic to be encyclopedic, not to mention it's a cliche). Anyway, something like that. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde 21:19, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I added Dennis and posted a message to not add Wilma until the end of the season. I added Dennis because I felt enough information had been made available to put together a decent section. I also need to balance this article with its sister page, 1900-1960, where I will soon add Hurricanes Easy and King from 1950. Wilma's section will finally balance them again at the end of the season.

Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde 22:31, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pics

I think that there should be some type of graphic for this article. Maybe satellite pictures of the more recent hurricanes and pictures of damages from hurricanes before the satellite era will do. 70.156.139.24 23:51, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I've been thinking about that too. I'm sure I could come up with some pictures for the most notable of the hurricanes.

Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde 21:57, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Hopefully we won't have to put up any 2006 storms here...or anywhere...(although somehow, I doubt it, maybe not in Florida but somewhere else). I'm wondering if hurricane history pages like this could be made for other states/regions? (An off-season project) CrazyC83 05:43, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, God! Sometime next summer I may find time for it. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 04:53, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hurricane Wilma

I lived through it in Broward County. I would certainly say it was catostrophic! ℬastique▼^parℓer♥^voir♑ 05:14, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I never said it wasn't. I was just saying that we should wait until more accurate information comes out in the tropical cyclone report. Then it will be added. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 02:53, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Todo

Mediocre writing. Needs a copyedit, wikification in some places, and use of paragraphs. Needs pictures. Should not make up names for the storms. I'm not sure this article should exist. Jdorje 07:39, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Mediocre writing?! I spent a lot of time whiping this article into shape. I wrote this article with the same care and in the same style as my school reports, which I usually do well on. The creation of paragraph breaks and the addition of SOME pictures on the more notable storms are the only things I agree with in that above statement. -- §Hurricane ERIC§ archive -- my dropsonde 13:59, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree, this is almost FA-standard in my view! CrazyC83 03:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I added paragraph breaks and some pics. -- §HurricaneERIC§^Damagesarchive 02:40, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List Article?

Since E. Brown essentially did this entire article himself, I'm going to suggest this here rather than just doing it. This article is clearly a list, albeit a detailed one, and should perhaps be moved to List of catastrophic Florida hurricanes: 1961-present. —Cuiviénen (Cuivië) 01:50, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to be a stick in the mud, but I'd have to oppose that. This is more of an article describing more than one event, since all of the storms listed are described in detail. Renaming it "List of Catastrophic Florida Hurricanes: 1961-present" would be like renaming 2004 Atlantic hurricane season List of Atlantic tropical cyclones of 2004. You see what I'm saying? -- §HurricaneERIC§^Damagesarchive 02:40, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FA nominee?

Does anyone else agree that this should be nominated as a Featured Article? CrazyC83 23:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if this one has what it takes to be an FA. It has a lot of information but voters might not like the way it's formatted or written. We could put it up for a general peer review to see what people's overall impression of the article is. In the mean time, anyone for promoting it to A? -- §HurricaneERIC§^Damagesarchive 18:52, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

It's close to being A, but, no offense Eric, some of the writing is a bit dramatic. For example in the Frances section "...and the houses still habitable were licking their wounds." This is an encyclopedia, not a story. That would be perfect for a book of historic Florida hurricanes, but some of borders on POV. A few things are missing for A class that have been a requirement for other storms; inline sources, more intro, and damage pictures. Nonetheless, it is very interesting reading. Hurricanehink 17:29, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure, some of it may be melodramatic, but I don't see how it's POV. None of that should be too hard to fix. I'll find some damage pics too. -- §HurricaneERIC§^Damagesarchive 01:27, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Hurricanehink. In my view, it should probably be written more matter-of-fact. I'm not making any sweeping changes on this page away from your tone without your permission, because I can see how attached you are to it, and I don't see the tag I saw on the Texas hurricane page to indicate such a change is necessary. I must admit, nuclear blast made me wince. Thegreatdr 02:37, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

If references/notes were added explaining the sources of your information, it might strengthen your argument for A class. Just a thought. Thegreatdr 21:46, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Eric is currently on a wikibreak, until after June probably, so this article is on hold really. I dislike those section names too, "nuclear blast" seems bad. If you want to carry on with improvements go ahead, and when you are done I'd suggest you submit it as a good article (follow the procedure on that page), the ref format isn't an issue for GAs to the same extent.--Nilfanion (talk) 00:10, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, the article should focus more on the Florida impact. If this is like a list of catastrophic Florida hurricanes (which is what the title should be, it's a list), there should be lots more specific info, and not so much storm history. For example, Dora is listed as one of the catastrophic storms, yet it only gives a blurb about the impact. A lot of it needs to be rewritten to be in a more encyclopediac style. The titles (The legend, Jacksonville's Big Surprise) need to go, ASAP. I don't know what else should go there, if anything, but that's not the WPTC I know. Sourcing is needed throughout the article, as well. Hurricanehink (talk) 02:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Start-class

Have relegated it to start-class. Too much narrative, unencyclopedic tone, POV, Manual of Style issues. The narrative needs to go. "Catastrophic"? Who defines "catastrophic"? Does Hurricane Katrina count? It was a "catastrophic" hurricane, and it was a Florida hurricane. MOS - {{see also}}, (commented out because it wouldn't read properly - hit edit to see what needs to be added) et cetera need to be used... far from B-class. – Chacor 09:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Fixed some of the problems, such as much of the information irrelevent to Florida, the remainder of the lurid prose, and added general references. Chances are, the reference section and all Florida impact sections will need to be expanded. Thegreatdr 12:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Wow, that's quite a makeover. Still minor problems ("nineteenth century" and "twentieth century" usually aren't capitalised), and {{see also}} needs to be put in the correct place. Still, it reads much better now. – Chacor 13:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge?

Would anyone (besides E. Brown) be against merging this article into our very, very poor List of Florida hurricanes? – Chacor 04:56, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know. The List of Florida hurricanes is pretty ambitious as it is, and will probably need splitting up. If it were to be split up, we have the debate of going by time or by location (List of Florida keys hurricanes, Florida Panhandle hurricanes, List of Mainland Florida hurricanes or something). In all, I do agree with merging it, as do I agree with merging the List of Catastrophic Texas hurricanes with the very, very short and stubby List of Texas hurricanes, though I don't think one should just copy and paste it in. Some work is needed. Hurricanehink (talk) 13:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I suggest keep. I don't think it's worth losing notable hurricanes like Donna or Andrew amongst a list of non-notable storms. Pobbie Rarr 03:21, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not so much about the article's content here, per se, than the need for its existence - for which there is none. Like I've said above, who/what defines "catastrophic"? Someone can just come and say, "all tropical cyclones are catastrophic". – Chacor 03:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I see your point. I suggest we keep this article for retirees only (if that is not already the case). Pobbie Rarr 03:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article renamed

Per WP:BOLD, I've moved this article to its current name. It's obviously a list, and "catastrophic" was too POV. "Notable" is also slightly POV, but better, and perhaps if this list is converted into retirees-only "notable" would become "retired". Also possible the 1900-1960 article could be merged to form one. – Chacor 05:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

What about merging this with the List of Florida hurricanes? Hurricanehink (talk) 05:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

How long would you like the page to become? I like the idea of breaking it into sections of time. Thegreatdr 10:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't think it's quite B yet. Some key points still need referencing, and still some POV problems (like "It was the Panhandle’s worst hurricane in decades."). Some sentence plain don't make sense ("Devastation of this intensity and small of a scale had not been seen since Hurricane Andrew.") A small of this scale? That ("devastation of this intensity") still seems POV without a source. – Chacor 10:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC)