Talk:List of minor characters in Xenosaga

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Deckiller (talk - maintenance)

I think there are too many pictures on this page, which is screwing up the format. If there are no objections, I am going to delete a few of them. Deckiller 23:08, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

1 Pictures
2 Help w/links
3 Side Characters?
4 Bad Decision?
5 Vanderkaum/Vanderkam
6 Too many pictures!
7 WikiProject proposed
8 Miyuki Itsumi
9 References to other media.
10 Lt. Virgil

[edit] Pictures

I think that, in order for a character to have a picture, the text must equal the size of the picture. That way, the format isn't all screwed up. Deckiller 00:40, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

I think the crew of the Elsa should have one main picture if possible, it should reduce the amount of images by two and keep Tony's image from coming off the page. Rudykog 16:59, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Help w/links

I could use help checking the links to make sure that they link to the list articles and not the separate ones. Thanks! Deckiller 01:06, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Side Characters?

I don't know if some of these should really be "side characters", for example, Margulis is an NPC, but he's one of the main antagonists in the main timeline. I also question Wilhelm, Gaignun, and Albedo. Rudykog 17:10, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree that some characters are much more significant. I was thinking we could create extra "Xenosaga (progragonists) and Xenosaga (antagonists) pages. I'll start working if anyone else agrees. Deckiller 13:41, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

The recent page move created ~35 double redirects. I'm reluctant to change them if this page is going to be split, since they would all need doing again. Once the new pages are created (or not), the double redirects need to be fixed! SeventyThree^(Talk) 17:25, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that! SeventyThree^(Talk) 22:16, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bad Decision?

Wouldn't it have been better if the articles were never moved here in the first place? ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis 04:13, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

BTW: your signature seems to be broken. --Maru (talk) Contribs 05:21, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

It is ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis in my preferences, but the four tildes now change it to ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis. It never used to do that. ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis 06:14, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Hm… I can't show you what the four tildes change it to. You'll have to look at the edit page. ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis 06:18, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

That is one heck of a mess. I haven't the slightest clue what is wrong with it, although I hear the HTML tidier was turned off a while ago, breaking a lot of sigs and pages. That might be it. --Maru (talk) Contribs 06:51, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

The articles were moved here because we were HEAVILY critisized for fancruft. We were told by several people to merge. Deckiller 13:40, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vanderkaum/Vanderkam

I forsee a possible edit/revert war over this issue in the near future, but I'm going to stand firm on this.

In the original Japanese versions of both Xenogears and Xenosaga, the name is spelled the same way: ヴァンダーカム. However, in the translated English versions, there is disparity. Whoever localized the Xenogears script into English chose to transliterate the name as "Vanderkaum." In Xenosaga, it's transliterated as "Vanderkam."

It's understandable that many people will consider Xenogears' Vanderkaum to be the correct spelling of the name, because it came first. However, this is not the case. The name itself is an homage to James C. Vanderkam, a professor of Hebrew scriptures who has published many works. The creators of Xenogears and Xenosaga used his writings as a major and indespensible resource when writing their stories, and they gave him a nod by naming a character after him.

In any case, the character's name in Xenosaga is spelled Vanderkam, and it should be spelled as such, especially in encyclopedic contexts. There is absolutely no reason the Xenosaga character's name should be spelled Vanderkaum.

I agree. I believe there are also similar debates with Grafh and Grahf, though it could just be a user typoing constantly... Deckiller 15:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Too many pictures!

I'm going to have to remove a lot of these pictures..Deckiller 00:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject proposed

Wikipedia:Wikiproject/List of proposed projects Deckiller 00:17, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Miyuki Itsumi

Miyuki is now in the List of protagonists in Xenosaga list. The information is pretty much copy-and-paste, if no one has any objections, I think she can be removed from this list. -- Remy Suen 01:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Done as it's almost been a month and no one seems to have an opinion. --Remy Suen 17:24, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References to other media.

Sakura bears quite a resemblance to the heroine of Card Captor Sakura, Sakura Kinomoto. It is thought that Xenosaga's creators may have intended her as an homage to that anime.

I stuck a cite request on this. It's entirely possible that this is true, but is there a source? "Sakura" is not exactly an uncommon name in anime, and Sakura's character design is not exactly unique either. (Or, alternately, is this a major theory that's notable regardless of its correctness? I've never seen it before, and I doubt it, but you never know.)

I also removed completely a reference to the idea that Soze Kukai is secretly a reference to Keyser Soze from The Usual Suspects. Seems like a bizarre reach to me, when there's a much simpler explanation in a game that likes to yank lots of dialogue from German: Kaiser is Caesar/Emperor. And even bringing that up doesn't seem relevant, since it's not made a big deal of in the game. SnowFire 23:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

PhoenixStrike, I see you reverted several of my changes. However, I made them with a reason. Normally, phrasing things with an "of course" is rather condescending to your reader; if it was so obvious, why are we saying it again? It's occasionally appropriate, but not here, I think. I also don't think it's a stretch to use the word "spite," since the whole point was to deny the choice.

As for the Jesus bit, that isn't speculation a bit; it's directly in the game. It's one of the images in the flashback sequence in underground Michtam.

As for "T." Masuda... that's not his name in the database, and a Google reveals only Wikipedia as a place that uses that. Where is this from? SnowFire 02:40, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll change the wording, but Jan did not do it to spite Voyager. He did it because that was his only choice. His only other options were being a Testament or having his soul consumed by Voyager. At no point is that man called Jesus in the game, therefore that line isn't needed there. And yes, the Episode III database states that Masuda's first name is "T." PhoenixStrike 03:41, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

The spite thing is not a huge deal, but yes, that would be spiting Voyager from what you describe, or at the very least spiting Voyager's "choice." As Merriam-Webster puts it, "in spite of: in defiance or contempt of." It was Ziggy defying Voyager with an air of rancor.

As for the database note, I just re-checked myself and it isn't there (I had checked before too). Is it in the Japanese version or something? And regardless, he's never referred to as T. Masuda in-game. A rarely used "true" name is superseded by a commonly used version or alias; after all, the article on chaos isn't at "Yeshua (Xenosaga)" and Bill Clinton is at Bill Clinton as opposed to the more correct William Jefferson Clinton.

As for the Jesus bit, if we were applying a very high standard for admissability to the article, you might be correct. As it stands, we have "possible origins" all over the place. To mention Mary Magdalene without mentioning Jesus would be... odd. More to the point, pictorial evidence is still evidence; I'm sorry, but the picture in-game was the classic depiction of Jesus. You don't need to say something outright to get the message across.

As for your changes to the Luis Virgil section, I am only applying Wikipedia style guidelines. While it is true that these are broken in various places, things like that "See also" traditionally go at the top, and I can't see why you keep reverting that as well. See: Wikipedia:Guide to layout. "A "see also" line is sometimes put at the beginning, to link to an article about another meaning of the word, or in the case of a link that many readers are likely to follow instead of reading the article." SnowFire 04:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lt. Virgil

Virgil is an alternate spelling of the name of the author of the Aeneid, Vergil. Virgil comes from the latin word for wand, and during the middle ages people spelled his name like that because they considered him to be magical, which is why he appeared in the Divine Comedy as the guide. Eds01 04:17, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

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