Talk:List of false friends

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I suggest we rename this to "List of false cognates" as that is the more specific name. Thoughts anyone? Jcobb 21:03, Mar 3, 2004 (UTC)

Sounds good - but please also rename false friend if you do so. Thanks. Martin 21:10, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The false friends page contains other content concerning the other possible meanings of the phrase and there already is a false cognates page, so I think it is best just to rename this one. Jcobb 10:19, Mar 7, 2004 (UTC)

Comment on the format of this table: It seems to me the first column (the non-English word) is closely associated with the third column (the actual English equivalent) and that the second column (the English friend, cognate, sound-alike, whatever...) would be more closely associated with the fourth column (the non-English word that should be used for the English word). For that reason I would propose that columns 2 and 3 be swapped. rlwest 22 June 2006

Don't some of these technically count as true cognates, even if it's in a very restricted sense? For instance, we use 'file' in the same sense as the Italians when we say 'line up in single file'. Same for 'final'; I can think of a number of cases we use it in English in the same sense as the Romanians-- for instance, in 'final exams'. As for 'mille', well, the French word for 'million' is 'million', so it's not entirely a false cognate either. There are quite a few other questionable false cognates I noticed in the list, but I can't be bothered to go through and specifically list them all at the moment.

In addition, there seems to be some confounding of false cognates and false friends. False friends are words that are etymologically related but don't have the same meaning (such as the infamous 'preservative' example, for instance); false cognates are words which only appear to be related but aren't (such as 'i', 'is' and 'it' in Latin versus the words spelled the same ways in English). Then there are 'ego' and 'Handy', which are in fact cognate with the English words but carry a different meaning... --Codeman38 00:15, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

Reading above, I assume this was previously "List of false friends". The false cognate page is about words which mean the same but are unlinked, while this is a list of false friends which look similar but mean different things. I think it should be moved back. --Henrygb 14:57, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

"False friend" is the best phrase. It is familiar to translators, and corresponds to the French "faux amis", which I believe is in wide use. And has been pointed out, some of these are true cognates which have diverged in meaning between the languages. Sharkford 15:38, 2004 Aug 26 (UTC)

I can spot a LOT of true cognates (or otherwise closely related words derived from the same root), here, actually, especially from Latin, but even between English and other Germanic languages, etc. (Of course, you must have studied some etymology to be able to spot all of them.)

Personally, I'm all for splitting off from this list all the false cognates, as should have been done long before I made my first contribution to it. I made my first edit to this list in order to demonstrate a false cognate, but when I clicked the List of False Cognates link, I was redirected here. I assumed there was some previous consensus that the lists should be joined, for whatever bizarre and unscholarly reason. If we can bring the matter up for a vote, I'd like to cast my vote in favor of "split according to the real falseness". The two concepts, false cognates and false friends really have nothing to do with each other except in the mind of the most inept junior-high-level view of the subject(s). I don't personally have the time to sort through the list to do so, but I think that the inclusion of both, as though they are the same thing, into the same list is a valid criticism of the reliability of Wikipedia as a source of accurate information. Not a primary valid criticism, but one of many, which could be avoided with a bit of responsible editing (and probably long ago should have been, i.e., prior to the joining of these two lists, or the redirect of one to the other)... Not to kibitz too much, but this has been a lumberyard in my eye for quite a while. Tomer ^TALK 11:05, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

I agree, although false cognates might be harder to tell. I know about examples such as Eng clumsy (from a norse word meaning to numben), Dutch klunzig (clumsy, from a word similar to clump), English flow/float (from PIE root pleu), Latin fluere (from PIE root bhleu) etc. (Probably English bad, Persian bad (bad), English better, Persian behtara (better) as well.) Ideally, I think a false cognate should have no clear relationship in origin, either from linguistic evolution or source of borrowing, yet being fascinatingly similar in both appearance and meaning.

Also, I believe a "List of false cognates" shouldn't contain words that are due to onomatopoetics, such as "Cuckoo", and words like "meow" for cat, and also not words like mama and papa/baba/tata/dada which seem to arrive due to the fact that these sounds are usually the easiest to pronounce foryoung babies.

[edit] List of False Cognates

The "List of False Cognates" links to a "List of False Friends", =S, maybe we should make another page with a list of false cognates (such as en/jp: sô/so, nay/nai etc...)

[edit] "Handy"

Does anyone really know the definitive etymology of it? I can see several plausible ones:

German "Hand" or English "hand" -- I suppose you do hold a phone in your hand
English "handy" -- cellphones are handy!
English "handset" -- shortening of the technical term for the device

-- Tooki 04:33, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Not sure what your section header refers to, if not the word in case 2; is it perhaps a brand of cell phone sold in your region? I'm sure handy in the sense of convienient or nearby comes from the human hand, via such phrases as "falls readily to hand", which today we'd say means "ergonomic". That you hold a cell phone in your hand certainly reinforces the meaning, obviously, but in English there would be no problem calling a shoe or a hat "handy". Sharkford 15:38, 2004 Aug 26 (UTC)

I believe Tooki is referring to the German word das Handy (I hope that's correct spelling) which means cellphone. --Akchizar 09:23, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I guess the german word might possibly be based on nouns such as walkie-talkie, rather than the adjective handy, i.e. a "Handie"..

In german is "(das) Handy" the term for mobile phone/cell phone and it's a so called Scheinanglizismus (= Pseudo-Anglicism), that means, a lot of germanspeaking people think, it's an original english word for cellphone. Here a short list of Scheinaglizismen. 84.137.210.5 14:55, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This actually has nothing to do with hands or being handy - it comes from the Swabian dialect expression 'Henn die koi Schnur?' (Handy is pronounced Henndy in German). I have this on good authority from a book on the anglicisation of the German language, though what the original expression means I have no idea. Any Swabians out there?

"Schnur" looks like the Dutch word "snoer", which means cord or wire. Probably "koi Schnur" means "no wire". "Henn die" reminds me of "Hebben die" in Dutch, meaning "Have they". The total expression would mean something like "They have no wire?", which sounds plausible to me. -- Sander 23:49, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like highly improbable, contrived folk-etymology to me. Why write it "Handy" if it is not from the English word "handy" (even though mobiles are, of course, not called that in English)? The German pronunciation of English "a" as "e" is notorious: kemping (for camping), menneger (for manager), etc. etc. -- Picapica 18:44, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Propaganda

I think I don't agree with "Propaganda". I think that this word means almost the same in Spanish and in English. Any opinion?

--Pinzo 23:27, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

In the 1950's in Bolivia, propaganda had no negative connotations, at least no more negative than English advertising. Have things changed since then, or are they different in other spanish speaking countries? -- Leonard G. 15:09, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

According to the RAE dictionary:

Propaganda:

Congregation of cardenals ("De propaganda fide") to spread the catholic faith.
(by ext.) Association to spread doctrines, opinions, etc.
To release anything in order to get supporters or buyers.
Texts and works used for that.

About the every-day meaning, here in Spain "propaganda" is used with two meanings, AFAICT: a somewhat despective advertising (some like spam), and the political "[propaganda]". In English, I think that only the political meaning is widely used, but listing in this page words with different polysemous meanings would be overwhelming. --Pinzo 21:03, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Anus (Latin)

Whether the Latin "anus" means "old woman" (as in anus bona for "good old woman") or "anus"/"rectum"/"ring" (as in "anus mundi" for "anus of the world") depends on the stress. If the "a" is long. it is a cognate to the English "anus" and the Spanish "ano." --Jeff Anonymous 07:43, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] No (Czech)

"No" in Czech (pronounced "noh") is used only in verbal communication meaning:

quiet (not much supported) approval
nodding or acknowlegment during conversation.

There is a word for "yes" - "ano" (pronounced ah-noh)

[edit] Billion

I dispute the validity of this word in the article, the word is the same in all the languages... it's just that the mathematical meaning is divergent... it's not quite the same thing as a false friend IMO. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 00:14, Jan 29, 2005 (UTC)

That would depend on if you were using the Long scale or Short scale.

[edit] Car(german)

The German "Car" refers to a coach. The term refers exclusively to private hires. High-capacity motor vehicles that require individual tickets are called a "Bus." There are a number of terms for an automobile in German; the most common are "Auto" and "Pkw" (Personenkraftwagen).

[edit] Standardization/streamlining

It would be beneficial to find some convention to express the basic idea that a certain term is generally universal among a certain language group/family. . .in other words, rather than listing Russian, Polish, and others, for instance, for "Brat" (Eng. brother) or all the Romance languages for "actual" (Eng. current), could we not substitute the list for the name of the language group, e.g. Slavic, Romance, etc.? - Dpr

First, loanwords. For example, notice the Finnish words that have been borrowed from Swedish, even though the languages are unrelated. Second, as you can see, it'd invite misclassifications (like grouping Hungarian with the Slavic languages). Third, it wouldn't simplify much, as there would be more exceptions for the rule than raw data. --Vuo 06:57, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Partial false friends

What about partial false friends? Should words that have more than one meaning (besides the "shared" meaning) be included in the list? An example: in Spanish, the word "escándalo" is the same as "scandal", but it can also mean "commotion, din, uproar".

For now, I can spot some of these words already, such as Swedish "slang", which also could mean "slang language" basically as in English, and Swedish "tag", which could mean a Graffiti tag. Both of these meanings stem from English borrowings (, as a footnote, the word slang (language) is believed to be of Scandinavian origin).

Maybe this Swedish example "slang (Swedish) - slang - hose - slang(språk), slang(ord)" should be removed, since "slang" has two meanings, one "hose", and one "slang" (Actually this word is the most common word for slang language in Swedish, used both by linguists and common people.) How the word should be interpreted is generally given from context,

Hmmm, the Swedish Wikipedia disambiguation article for slang even includes punning on the word's two meanings: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slang "slang kan även vara slang för allt som liknar en slang." = "Hose could also be slang for everything looking like a hose", the pun sounds as silly in Swedish as you might imagine...

[edit] I removed

Non-English word	Which resembles English	But actually means
namae (名前) (Japanese) nam (Sanskrit)	name	name

since Namae seems more like a false cognate than a false friend, and the Sanskrit word likely a true cognate, considering how common the PIE root for "name" is.

Also, Arabic "anta" - Japanese "anata"/(sometimes)"anta" would also be better classified as false cognates, than false friends...

True, but List of false cognates #REDIRECTs to List of false friends. --Damian Yerrick 1 July 2005 01:48 (UTC)

[edit] Bouton/button

A friend of mine got in trouble in France with one of these "false friend". He noticed a woman who was wearing a button with a slogan or something on it. He asked her in his shakey French if he could see her button, and got slapped. Later he learned that "bouton" means "nipple". -Al

[edit] Boot

I don't know German well enough to add this myself, but doesn't Boot mean boat in German? —Bkell 19:32, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but it's pronounced like /bo:t"´/, similar to "bought".

Are you sure? I thought it was pronounced with closed o (like English "boat" but not diphtongued), not with open o (like English "bought"); in fact I thought long o in German would always be closed; but my German is only de-1 -- Tonymec 17:11, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I have trouble differing between closed and open vowels, "bought" is /bɔ:t/(Open, midback, rounded), "boat" is /bəʊt/ (Schwa+Near close, near back, rounded) En "boot" is /bu:t/ (closed, back, rounded) and De boot is /bo:t/(Closed, midback, rounded) , if I'm not mistaken. I hope the IPA vowels will work correctly, I am working on an old computer... =S

they do. Well, yes, "boat" is pronounced /bəʊt/ nowadays (cf. German böüt) but when I learnt English in the 1960's it was supposed to be /bout/ (diphtong, closed o + short u). That's what I alluded to. (Apparently the Great Vowel Shift is still active in this domain. ;-) ) IIUC open/close and short/long vowel distinctions are correlated in German, much more so than in English.

[edit] Written vs. oral (pronounced) false friends

I have often wondered under what standpoint we are looking at false friends here: do the words that are similar to English SOUND the same (are pronounced the same) as their non-English counterparts or are we looking at them in terms of their similarity in written form? Should we try to tell them apart? (Rox 17:06, 10 October 2005 (UTC))

[edit] False cognates shouldn't redirect here.

List of false cognates currently redirects here. It shouldn't. False friends and false cognates are two distinct things. Friends are words which seem similar and have different meaning. False cognates are words which seem related (cognate) but are not. Two words can be cognate and have different meaning. Most false friends are true cognates which have shifted semantically. I'm removing that redirect. If someone wants to make a separate list of false cognates they're welcome. (I won't though) --BluePlatypus 04:09, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Of course, if someone wants to add etymological info to this list, pointing out which words are cognates and not, then the redirect is fine. But as the list stands now, cognates and false cognates are mixed without distinction. That isn't helpful to someone wanting to know about false cognates, rather it can only serve to confuse. --BluePlatypus 04:27, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Title

Just so you know, when I saw this link I thought, "Oh! How interesting, a list of false friends! It'll have Iago and Judas Iscariot and I wonder who else?!" IJS. :) jengod 19:05, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Monster (Dutch)

I've added monster to the list, which in Dutch means both sample (in a scientific way) as monster. I wasn't too sure if it belongs here though, so if anyone feels it shouldn't: just delete it -- Sander 18:06, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Embarazado/a

Contributors to this article may be interested to know that the article on embarazada (the Spanish word for "pregnant", which seems at a glance to be the only item on this list to have its own entry in WP) is currently up for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Embarazada. Flapdragon 19:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please break this list down by first letter of the word!

I think that because this list is so long, and destined to get even longer, it should be broken down by first letter. Viewers should have the option of reading only the false friends that start with the letter A, and then clicking on links to see the ones that start with other letters. When a list gets this long, scrolling up and down becomes cumbersome. Just imagine how many feet long this list would be if it were printed on a scroll! Too long!

[edit] alphabetization proposal

We seem to be having some difficulty keeping the list in alphabetical order, or indeed in deciding which alphabetical order to use. I propose that the list should be sorted by English word that the entry appears to resemble, i.e. the second column. This has the advantages that:

we can continue to group similar words in different languages together, as we have been trying to do (e.g. Polish krawata = French cravate would sort under 'c' because the English word is 'cravat')
it saves us worrying about how to alphabetically compare words in different alphabets
it's easy to look up a word if you know what English word it looked/sounded like, which is surely one purpose of the list. —Blotwell 03:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

One more reason: In Finnish ä and ö (a-umlaut and o-umlaut) come in the end of the alphabet, after 'x', 'y' and 'z', whereas in some other languages ä and ö are grouped together with 'a' and 'o'. Thus, your proposition would also solve the problem that alphabetical orders are language-dependent. BTW. Is it possible to automatize the task of keeping the list in alphabetical order? For example by some kind of script that would be run periodically, or make some kind of dialog box for adding entries that would alphabetize automatically?Punainen Nörtti 06:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Agent

"agent" is listed under the actual meanings for agente, etc. It is also listed under words to use instead. How can it be a false friend? I took Spanish for six years, and we used "agente" in the same way you would use "agent" in English.

FOR EXAMPLE

Agente de Viajar- travel agent

[edit] Japanese language errors

Sake means alcohol in Japanese. It can refer to what we call sake. Neither tame 為 nor　tame 溜 have anything to do with alcohol at all. The specific terms for sake, as in rice wine, are nihonshu 日本酒 or seishu 清酒. The fact that there were no supporting kanji for the words makes me think that its not a word. (Unsigned comment added on 21:26, 15 November 2006 by 72.166.213.160)

I think the reference was to the English word that rhymes with "ache" and is sometimes translated as tame in Japanese. But this doesn't seem to fit with the definition of false friends as "words that may sound similar in two or more languages" (my italics), so perhaps this example should be removed anyway. -- Sakurambo 桜ん坊 12:08, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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