Talk:List of dictators/Joseph Kabila

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The guy is (now, not when he came to power) 34 years old. His power stems directly from his father. Dictator ? Do you think he throws his weight around ? No - I am sure he does what he is told - a figurehead. Other people tell him exactly what to do. Wizzy…☎ 18:31, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Whom is it that you imagine tells J.Kabila what to do? I agree any government in the Democratic Republic of the Congo is tenuous; and elections really have not been possible in the last several years, no matter how good Kabila's intent. But that's sort of the point: "dictator" isn't automatically pejorative; by including a "good guy" on the list, we help show that we're not simply writing invectives. There have, however, been "bad guys" who were even younger.

dictator isn't automatically pejorative - really ? Most references use it that way. Kabila the Younger is there as a puppet, because nobody would agree to anyone else. His inauguration was marked by a Zimbabwean presidential guard. What has he done that makes him dictatorial ? Queen Elizabeth II holds the keys to absolute power (she must approve all legislation, and can be appealed to). I am also not inclined (seeing who else is on this list) to exclude monarchy now. None of the dictionary definitions that Jucifer listed excludes it. Tell me again what puts Joseph Kabila on this list ? Wizzy…☎ 06:50, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I've become convinced by a Google search for "'Joseph Kabila' dictator". I don't find any evident mainstream usages. Most importantly, I think the 2001 ratification of his presidency by the parliment (however fragile that body was at the time) gives weight to the fact that Kabila followed rule of law since his presidency, despite the tenuous situation in the civil war. E.g. [1]. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 07:17, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

That said, I'm thinking we should put some caveat like:

Following a peace agreement, an interim administration was set up in 2003, including the leaders of the country's two main rebel groups as vice-presidents (two other vice-presidents are representatives of the civilian opposition and government supporters respectively).

This helps emphasize the transitional nature of Kabila's role. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 18:40, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Rulers of DRC have all been Dictators. Mugabe is not even mentioned, and we are discussing Kabila the Younger. Whom is it that you imagine tells J.Kabila what to do? I could take some guesses - but I think that the current rulers of Rwanda, Zimbabwe and Uganda figure very prominently in his decision-making. I cannot believe he sleeps easy at night. Wizzy…☎ 18:48, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what point you're getting at. I did see someone recently removed Mugabe. I think with proper annotation that name could go back... but there's no point restoring raw names. It becomes just: "Yes he is!" / "No, he isn't!". Annotations can provide context.

Anyway, I'm quite certain Kabila doesn't sleep easily. But probably few leaders who lack the vacuity of, e.g. Bush Jr., do so. Rulers of Rwanda, Zimbabwe and Uganda certainly must figure strongly in Kabila's troubled dreams; but it's hardly like they each tell him to do the same thing as each other. In any case, I changed the annotation to indicate that since 2003 there has been an interim coallition rule. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 18:59, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

IMHO we should define the terms of reference (i.e. dictator) and then discuss the individuals in the light of that. That would probably save a lot a KB on the talk page. This is not to say that the definition is then set in stone, but just so we are all on the same page here. jucifer 19:45, 2 December 2005 (UTC)