Talk:List of Veronica Mars episodes

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List of Veronica Mars episodes is part of WikiProject List of Television Episodes, which aims to improve, standardize, and guide episode lists on Wikipedia.

Looking to help? Check out the to-do list: If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project. edit - history - watch - purge General Tasks: Put {{WikiProject LOE}} at the top of all talk pages associated with this topic Get more participants and more input on preferred formatting Apply the project recommendations on lists not formatted adequately. Make sure all TV screenshot images have proper fair use licensing tags and fair use rationale statements made. Evaluate Category:Lists of television series episodes and sub-categories, come up with guidelines to help editors choose correct ones, possibly create, merge, etc others. Discuss at WT:LOE#Categories. Discuss updates and changes to the general style guidelines on the /structure talk page. Propose guidelines for when to have embedded article lists or split articles, etc. Lists to create: Articles to reformat: List of Batman Beyond episodes List of Cowboy Bebop episodes List of Mission Hill episodes List of Mystery Science Theater 3000 episodes List of The Powerpuff Girls episodes List of The X-Files episodes Articles with incomplete content: List of Andromeda episodes List of The Angry Beavers episodes List of Batman Beyond episodes List of Boston Legal episodes List of Chicago Hope episodes List of Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers episodes List of Darkroom episodes List of Dinosaurs episodes List of Edgemont episodes List of Even Stevens episodes List of Fantastic Voyage episodes List of Frasier episodes List of I Love Lucy episodes List of Invasion episodes List of King of Queens episodes List of LEXX episodes List of Matlock episodes List of The Powerpuff Girls episodes List of Tales from the Darkside episodes List of Third Watch episodes List of Undergrads episodes List of Voyagers! episodes Current Collaboration: List of The X-Files episodes

Contents 1 Title corrections 2 Season 3 already? 3 3.03: Wichita Linebacker 4 Named after songs 5 Writers/Directors on this page

[edit] Title corrections

As I point out at wikiquote:Talk:Veronica Mars#Title corrections, the UPN.com and TV.com websites and Wikiquote and Wikipedia articles all have mutually inconsistent and self-inconsistent title wording, spelling, punctuation, and capitalization practices — mutually in that they don't always agree with each other, and self in that each exhibits its own failure to follow any single practice. Because I'm obnoxiously detail-oriented, I am fixing the Wikiquote and Wikipedia episode titles and articles to adhere to two basic principles:

1. They will follow Wikipedia and Wikiquote's capitalization, punctuation, and spelling practices, which are identical.
2. The title wording will follow UPN's list, on the assumption that it is most authoritative.

Where these two conflict, the first will be followed unless there is compelling reason to believe the difference was an intentional alteration by the creative team and not just a typo on the part of the UPN web content creator. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:55, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

As I wrote in the Veronica Mars Talk section, I'd go with "Kanes and Abel's." That's pretty much the only one I'd change, since I'm unsure about "Return of the Kane"/"The Return of the Kane" and "Ruskie Business"/"Russkie Business." alliterator 12:25 3 February 2006

We need sources rather than opinions. That's why I stated how I came up with the strategy. The problem with "Kanes and Abel's" is that the most authoritative source I've found so far is UPN.com, which uses "Kanes and Abels". If we could get a reliable, published source closer to the creative team behind VM that disagrees, we should change it back. Same goes for all the titles, actually, although I'd want an explanation of why they misspelled "Russkie" (per Merriam-Webster Online) before changing it back. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 18:27, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

It's very hard to find a reliable source about episode titles. Take Rob Thomas Online, which spells the episode "Russkie Business" and "Ruskie Business" on the same page. And that's written by Rob Thomas himself. (But if it helps, he has it as "The Return of the Kane." No mention of "Kanes and Abel's" though.) Also, the UPN site isn't very reliable as well - case in point, they manage to misspell sheriff twice. alliterator 11:42 3 February 2006

I'm intrigued that he uses "The Return of the Kane". This supports my new suspicion that the title alludes to Tolkein's The Return of the King. Like you say, though, the "Russkie/Ruskie" thing and several other title inconsistencies in his "Writers Page" text impunes its reliability as a title source. Does he provide a means to contact him with research questions there? I didn't notice one. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:24, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

He used to have a page where you could email him, but he recently took it down. Someone I know has his email address, though, so I can ask about the titles. alliterator 17:28 3 February 2006

Also, the WB VM site has them as "Return of the Kane," "Ruskie Business," and "Kanes and Abel's." I think the WB (which produces the show) is more reliable than the UPN site. alliterator 18:13 3 February 2006

The DVDs say the same thing the WB VM site says, so I'm going to take what's on the DVDs as the official episode titles since they would be what was submitted to the studio prior to being filmed and aired on UPN and what would be used for the DVD production. I'd assume they would be checked to make sure that they were the correct episode titles prior to making the DVDs to ensure that no errors would be found after the DVDs came out. So, I would change them to what's listed on the DVDs based on that it's a printed and reliable source for the episode titles and cannot be changed like a website can. Season 2 is another story since there is no real reliable source for the episode titles other than what's listed on the UPN site, so those for now would go according to that. -- HuskersRule 06:39, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I think HuskersRule has a bit more confidence in the quality control of DVD publishers than is warranted, based on my own efforts to determine titles for other shows (like Mystery Science Theater 3000). Still, two authoritative sources, one of which is hard-printed, probably trumps a single other authoritative website. I suppose we must (A) ignore the likely original meaning to go with "Return of the Kane"; (B) run with "Kanes and Abel's" and not worry about how to interpret it; and (C) grind our collective teeth over the misspelling and use "Ruskie Business". ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:43, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

There. I have just moved those episode pages to the titles as discussed here and edited the episode list on the List of Veronica Mars episodes page to reflect those changes also. -- HuskersRule 07:25, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Just a note on the recent attempt to correct "Lord of the Pi's" title, which MatthewFenton reverted. Even though I usually grind my teeth over people's apostrophe obsessions, in this case it seems warranted, even by style guidelines. Many do allow the use of apostrophe-s in cases where it would be confusing to omit the apostrophe. Not only does "Pis" not inherently convey the idea of "more than one Pi", it also is too similar to Stosh Piznarski's nickname, "Piz". In the end, though, we must go with the reliable sources, and they appear to have decided on "Pi's". [gnash, gnash] ~ Jeff Q (talk) 20:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Season 3 already?

Where does the information about the Season 3 episodes come from? Shouldn't we wait to put those up until they've aired, or at least put up a warning that these episodes haven't aired yet? Sarahjane10784 04:31, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The episode titles and information came from the Veronica Mars page at SpoilerFix.com. I also added the Future television template to the Season 3 section to warn people that the information there is for episodes that haven't aired yet.--HuskersRule 04:13, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3.03: Wichita Linebacker

Episode 3.03 is listed as "Witchita Linebacker" when it should be "Wichita Linebacker," which is a reference to Wichita Lineman, a Jimmy Webb song. There is no Witchita, Kansas, I believe. User:Alliterator 11:42, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

What i dont understand is where your sources are for "this episode is named after ..xyz.." -- etc, could someone cite this as it could be named after several names. thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 07:36, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Also CWTV has it down as: Witchita Linebacker thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 09:38, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry. IMDb lists the episode as "Wichita," though TV.com lists it as "Witchita." I just think that "Wichita" makes more sense since the song/city is "Wichita." But I think we may have a "Ruskie/Russkie Business" on our hands here. User:Alliterator 08:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

IMDb is user submited, CWTV is the official website, official wins over user submited, any day and hence CWTV = correct. (-: thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 16:04, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

How about the Veoh Video Site, which is partially written by Mike Weiss, script supervisor. I'd say that is pretty official and there, it says "Wichita." But we have conflicting sources, so I don't mind if it stays "Witchita." User:Alliterator 14:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, now we have definite proof that it's called "Witchita Linebacker": the script. So we should leave it like that; however, I still contend that it should be "Wichita." Because I'm stubborn like that. User:Alliterator 16:30, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Named after songs

The episodes have "this episode was named after xxx" with no reference to the source, im going to remove this sort of information soon unless it can be sourced as it seems like fan guesswork aka OR. thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 09:21, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

John Enbom and Phil Klemmer, the writers of "Wichita Linebacker," stated that it was named after "Wichita Lineman" in the offical podcast on the Veoh Video site, so that should stay. I don't see why the obvious allusions to songs have to go (I mean, what else could "Ain't No Magic Mountain High Enough" be a reference to?), but if you want a reference page, you can also use marsinvestigations.net's Cultural References page (they have one for every episode), so it wouldn't be OR. User:Alliterator 14:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Writers/Directors on this page

I think we should have writers and directors listed on the episodes for this page as well, because it's a bit interesting to just see it all in one place in my opinion. Also, look at List of The West Wing episodes, List of Arrested Development episodes and List of Grey's Anatomy episodes. These articles and more have writers and directors on them. WestWingFan 22:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad someone decided to add a talk page section concerning this as that's why I removed the additions in the first place. I wanted to have people here come to a consensus as whether to include writers/directors on the page before actually adding them to the page(and also since the formatting was messed-up and needed to be fixed anyway). I'm fine with adding them on the first 2 seasons and the first 9 episodes of the third season as they've already aired and we won't have new episodes until the end of January to worry about. My only problem with the rest of season 3 that has not aired yet is it means having to edit the page every time we get info on who will write/direct the upcoming episodes and even at this moment I only have an unconfirmed mention of who's writing the next 2 episodes, but not who's directing also. This is not to say having to edit many times is bad, I'd just rather not have to edit more than is needed. But if more people like having them on there, I'll accept it and just edit whenever it is necessary.--HuskersRule 03:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)