Talk:List of Nairs

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This article was nominated for deletionon 2005 October 12. The result of the discussion was keep. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

This article was nominated for deletionon September 16, 2006. The result of the discussionwas NO CONSENSUS TO DELETE.

This article was nominated for deletionon 2006 October 22. The result of the discussion was keep. An archived record of this discussion can be found [[1]]

Contents

[edit] Disputed

Whether the following persons are Nairs is disputed. Unless someone can provide me with credible references that they are indeed Nairs, their names shall be excluded from the list.

  • M Damodaran- belongs to the Melleveetil tharvad
  • MK Narayanan - Manikkoth Kellath(?)family - from Malabar
  • Guru Gopinath - is Gopinatha Panicker from Chengannur
  • Shankar, the Cartoonist - From Illampallil tharavadu in Kayamkulam
  • Shashi Tharoor
  • G Aravindan- nephew of Karoor neelakanda pillai famous novelist from Kottayam
  • Prakash Karat - Son of Padmanabhan Nair - born in Burma - check the recent The Week profiling..
  • Karuvatta Swamikal - Vasudevan Nair (Pooravashrama name)
  • Swami Charananda
  • Sree vidya-she is the daughter of M.L.Vasanthakumari,a tamil brahmin.So how come she be a nair?

The objective of the page is to provide a credible and verifiable list, even if it is not very long. --Lettherebelight 06:06, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

In response to the above -Mr Damodaran and m k narayanan and shashi tharoor are indeed nairs ...they all belong to well known families/tharavads...Damodaran's father(Chandrashekhara Menon) is a retd judge and used to reside in Mds...Mk narayanan is related to mk kumar (as also Prasad of Tata Chemicals) who heads the business column on this page who are all nairs.As for proof one can check with them or any well known malayalis1 sm/5/11/05


Karunakaran is not from shudra caste. He belongs to an Ambalavasi Caste (Marar). Therefore he is not a Kshatriya (Nair).

[edit] Other Concerns

Though I made the effort to create and organize this page, I have certain concerns about the content of this page

  • How do you define a famous Nair? Frankly many of the persons in this list are relative unknowns.
  • Many people who add names to the list simply don't even get the initials of these persons right. For example, ISRO's director is G Madhavan Nair, not K Madhavan Nair. I corrected many such names. From now on, people adding names to the list are requested to cite relevant references
  • I even suspect few persons in the list, famous though they may be, are not Nairs. Recently Maniac added AK Gopalan and Mrinalini Sarabhai to the list. AKG was Ezhava, and Mrs. Sarabhai was not even a Malayali.

Frnd the maniac seems to be right.AKG was nair from Malabar while his spouse Suseela was an ezhava from the Tiruvithankod. Mrinalini, who was born in Madras, was a nair too. Well not exactly, her mother was.(Anmmu Swaminathan) I m not so sure about Mr.Damodaran. I believe he is a Tamil Brahmin from Palakkad.

--Lettherebelight 08:42, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

In response to- "I even suspect few persons in the list, famous though they may be, are not Nairs. Recently Maniac ......"
Let there be light indeed... I respect and appreciate the painstaking effort you have put in, not to mention your concerns about accuracy. But, LTBL, was too it hard for you too google a couple of names?
AK Gopalan belongs to a well known Nambiar family in north Malabar. "A K" stands for "Ayilliath Kootteri" (mebbe i spelt that wrong... so crucify me;) and last time i checked Nambiars were still Nairs.
There are links below that you can check or like i say "Google the thing dear man!"
Mrinalini Sarabhai was born Mrinalini Swaminathan, and is the sister of Captain Lakshmi.
Maniac 14:11, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
Answers:
Mrinalini Sarabhai is indeed a Malayalee. She belongs to the same family as Captain Lakshmy of INA.Please refer to the Samakalika Malayalam weekly special anniversary issue of June(?) to verify this. The site http://marxist.journalspace.com/?entryid=85 says AKG is from a nair family though calling him one would be an insult to the ideals for which he lived. And this (http://www.shashitharoor.com/articles/about/roots.html) says Shashi Tharoor is a nair. Shankar is/was Shankar Pillai (http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020802/ncr2.htm)
A Captain Lakshmi interview. [2] and another wikipedia link that i had nothing to do with --Maniac 14:11, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
I request contributors not to take my comments personally. My objective is to be faithful to facts, and not to put any individual down. Sadly, this article does not contain a single citation, and some users keep adding content without consideration to Wikipedia standards, and the document's overall style. --Lettherebelight | Talk 06:57, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
I do agree with User:Lettherebelight suggestion that the list is done a little carelessly.
G Aravindan - was the son M.N. Govindan Nair (author/satirist, not the politician)
Mrinalini Sarabhai and Captain Lakshmi were born to a Malayali Nair mother (Ammu Swaminathan) and a Tamil brahmin (Iyer, I think). Their affair caused a bit of a stir. This finds reference in Many Worlds, the autobiography of KPS Menon (former Indian foriegn secretary) who was a relative of Mrs. Swaminathan and a student in Madras at the time. I guess Ammu Swaminathan herself is important enough to deserve an entry.
SK Pottekkad was Ezahava according to User:Crharish and from what I could find from my (non-authentic) sources.
Re MK Narayanan - Manikkoth family - from Malabar - there is a famous Manikkoth Nair family in Malabar which produced the satirist Sanjayan (Manikkoth Ramunni Nair), but this is no proof. I had a professor in my college from a Manikkoth family who was a Christian. Tintin 12:27, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I deleted Pottekad. Add it again if you have any confirmed info to the contrary. Tintin 13:31, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

G Aravindan : I am a member of his family and I have a Menon surname. Menon comes under nair.

Regarding Mrinalini Sarabhai, She is the Daughter of Anakkara Vadakkathu Ammu Amma and Swaminathan of Madras (Chennai). Later A.V. Ammu Amma became famous as Ammu Swaminathan. According to the matrilineal custom the daughter of a Nair lady is always a Nair. Also the marriage of a Nair lady with a Brahmin was acceptable according to the Matrilieal custom. Captain (Dr) Lakshmi Sahgal is the sister of Mrinalini Sarabhai. Ammu Swaminathan herself was active in politics and social service in Madras. A.V. Kuttimalu Amma, famous freedom fighter belonged to the same Anakkara Vadakkathu family.

AKG, KPR Gopalan and E.K. Nayanar all belonged to well-known Nair families of Malabar and they were already related by ancient family traditions.

[edit] Vilasini

>> *[[SK(Sankaran Kutty) Pottekkadu - widely travlled and the first travalogue writer in India. He also wrote a 5000 page novel 'Oru Deshanthinte Katha" - The Story of a Land.

Just saw this comment. The NBS edition of Oru Desathinte Katha is only 443 pages long. The writer was probably thinking about Vilasini's Avakasikal. Was Vilasini a Nair ?

Vilasini is the brother of Late Justie M.P. Menon and unle of Justice M. Ramachandran of Kerala High Court.

[edit] Who is a famous Nair ?

  • How do you define a famous Nair? Frankly many of the persons in this list are relative unknowns.

Having gone through the list closely, I have to echo Lettherebelight's question. My criterion would be that they should be important enough to find a place in a Malayalam encyclopedia. Even after taking into account my ignorance, IMO 15-30% of the people listed here would fail that test.

I propose that we move the apparently unimportant entries from each section here and reach some sort of consensus about who to include or not. Tintin 23:13, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Comment from AfD

Somebody made this comment during the AfD discussion :

Will Prakash Karat tolerate him being listed in this casteist page ? Many people cannot tolerate their names being identified with caste? My name is in this list and I don't like it. Please take permission of the concerned persons before adding to this list
He certainly has a point here (though the permission part is not worth commenting about). Could Karat and such others could be moved to another section with an appropriate title. There is certainly precedence to this. List of Hindus include a section for non-Hindu believers; there is another article (whose name escapes me) which contains a list of former adherents. Not sure who else will go into this section - maybe all communist leaders ?
Can the regular editors please take a note of this. Tintin 15:22, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Content Building through Consensus

I'm the person who created this page. This list was orginally part of the Nair page, and when it grew too long, I thought it best to move it to a fresh page- so I created this page purely due to aesthetic reasons. Some people editing this page don't know how to properly edit pages in Wikipedia. They indiscriminately add content, while caring much neither about veracity of their entries nor the style they use to document them. Some mechanism has to be evolved to prevent this from happening. I believe in the participative philosophy of Wikipedia, and I want this matter to be debated in this forum. Let us evolve a consensus about how this page is to be edited. --Lettherebelight | Talk 08:45, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

  • My two cents - create a section here, copy all the names that you think are disputed or unimportant and we can sort them out. Tintin 12:54, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Btw, I seriously doubt that Nambiars and Thambis are Nairs. Tintin 12:58, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
  • One suggestion- let us not have any person on the list, about whom there is no Wikipedia article, containing at least 200 words. --Lettherebelight | Talk 05:30, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] If you dont know, please dont delete. Not just having a tail as Nair, doesnt mean that he is not a Nair.

AK Gopalan belongs to Nair Caste - If Suseela Gopalan is a Ezhava Lady, its not our problem.

Not having a tail as Nair, doesnt mean that he / she is not a Nair.

For example:

O. Rajagopal is a Nair - Any Doubts? You check it out. Kummanam Rajashekharan is from a well known Nair family.

So, those edit these things for 'fun' and having big talks better think and do!

Also, some say they are not sure some of the entries really deserve to be in the list. But if you dont know who is famous and who is not, better let others who know input it. We are not putting a Nair who runs a restaurant in Tokyo, just being in the sake of him doing this in Japan!

A lot of people are missing as everyone knows...NN. Pillai, his son Vijayaraghavan, Suresh Gopi, Vineeth,Thiruvanchoor Radhakrishnan, Balakrishna Pillai, his son Ganesh Kumar....

so there are a lot of famous nair and we can argue for all time whether to include them or not. So, let this be with those can contribute and not for those who just destroy / delete others valuable contributions.

Thampis and Nambiars are in the Nair Class.

How can you decide who should be contributing to this article? we cannot decide that the eligibility to edit / contribute to "Nair" to be restricted to those who are wikipedia experts. lets stay for what WP stands for! a free encyclopedia, any one can edit even without a password or logon!

[WikiWatch] About MK Narayanan I can confirm that his full name is Mayankote Kelath Narayanan, son of Dr. CB Nair and Kalayani Kutty Amma (Nair) is definately from a Malabar Nair family.

[edit] Just because someone has the surname Nair doesn't mean that they are in the Nair caste

Many lower caste people have in the past taken the surname of "Nair" to enhance their social standing. They are not part of the Kshatriya Nair caste and therefore cannot be included in this List of Famous Nairs. Also there are other people around the world who have the surname Nair, but have no relation with the Nair caste. They too must not be placed on this list.

[edit] Mira Nair

Does Mira Nair belong to this list ? Her mother Praveen Nair also seems to be notable. Mira Nair was born in Orissa though. Jay 08:04, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

No. She is a Punjabi with the surname Nair.--Raghu 10:02, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Are you very sure about Mira Nair? Her parents might be from Punjab but the Nairs are scattered all over the globe. Is this not similiar to the case of Devan Nair (the late President of Singapore) being a Singaporean but definitely also a Nair?Ivygohnair 00:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


Hey thanks for that! I had searched and searched but got no answer. Jay 11:21, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

…==Is Kodiyeri a nair==

Can someone clear this

my dear casteist fellow yes Kodiyeri Balakrishnan indeed belongs to the nair caste as does P.K. Sreemathi.Mr.Balakrishnan is the son of Unni kurup, a nair. Now sleep peacefully.

Dear Friend..Thanks for showing me light in this sojourn of mine here in this world. I have finally opened my eyes having spent all my past smired in ignorance and casteist darkness. I feel lucky that i have finally ended my life of 'ignorance is bliss' and am very close to being with a true Guru, that you are. Hope you will find time to answer one doubt of this poor fellow. While I visited this site, having searched through the wide world web looking for list of nairs, confirming my natue of being a prejudiced casteist, is it not fair to ask you about your motivation to check even the last line of a dispute page of an apparently casteist content. I will not be surprised if you happen to be a 'Guru' from one of those lower castes, for India has the tradition of a long list of low caste Guru people. Pranamam Guroo

I think - it should be clear that there is no rancour or ill-will in this matter. It is just a matter of fact. Why not someone be free to state his community or larger socia group. Not the caste in the contemporary bad sense in India.

Someone has removed the names of Prakash karat and EK nayanar from the list. Wonder why?????

[edit] Keep

This article cannot be deleted because there are:

[edit] List needs to be edited !

This list contains the names of many unknown persons and of persons who seem to have added their own names or those of their relatives just for the 'kick' of appearing to be 'important'. This is one of the major drawbacks of Wikipedia. I suggest that when a name is added a reference or references be provided that others can check out. These may be articles in books, newspapers or documentaries or programmes in the media. If not this stands to turn into a total farce with every Achu, Kichu and Kunju wanting to have his or his neighbour's name included.HariunniHari 18:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clean Up

This list just survived the 3rd AfD attempt. Now the fun starts: how do we propose to clean it up?

Wikipedians who are really committed to the survival of this list should really chip in and help in the clean up.

Many users who voted "keep" in the last debate, did so on the condition that the present list of 400 to 500 names (the majority with red links) should be cleaned up. One even suggested removing all the red links.

Here is my suggestion:

Two weeks should be given from today (04 November 06) for editors to demonstrate the "notabilty" of the red links.(ie to establish an article on these persons which passes wikipedia's standards for "notability")

At the end of the two weeks, I propose that all the red links remaining should be deleted.

I for one will have printed out a copy of the list and will be doing google searches to see if I can create articles on these people with red links that will pass wikipedia notability standards. I hope other wikipedians, (Nairs as well as non Nairs) will assist in this daunting task.

I also intend to create an article on Kamala Das, the Novelist, and on Mira Nair, the film director, unless someone confirms that they are not Nairs.

I would be most grateful for feedback on this from interested wikipedians.Ivygohnair 00:36, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Mira Nair is a Punjabi and her surname is a variation of North Indian surname Nayyar (see section 9 above)
Kamala Das already has an article. Tintin (talk) 02:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. Mira is out, Kamala is in. What about MPD Nair who was a Minister in Singapore when David Marshall was chief Minister? Anybody can tell me more about him?Ivygohnair 09:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Kamala Das converted a few years back and is now a Muslim. From his complete name, Devan Nair must be a Nair. Tintin (talk) 09:55, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Oops, sorry. Don't know about MPD Nair. This is CVD Nair. Tintin (talk) 09:56, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
I know that Kamala Das converted to Islam but she was born a Nair. It's like Mohammed Ali. he was born Cassius Clay. I would include her.Ivygohnair 10:14, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


Admin Help Needed

Mea Culpa. It was me who edited the headings; as I am no nerdy whiz kid, I am afraid I rather made a mess of it. But I was prompted to to it because an admin had made the link to the 3rd AFD debate open to the second AfD debate. It is important in the Clean Up that interested wikipedians who would like to contribute have access to the actual debate that led to the decision to keep this page, don't you think? My apologies again.Ivygohnair 09:34, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Latest Update

I have been looking at the list for for more than three days and find the task too daunting for one person. It is not possible for me to google search 400 names, though I started on a few. I don't think I am the first to renounce this task, according to the discussion pages. I have also looked at other "lists" of people in Wikipedia and found many with red links too. So perhaps we should leave the Nairs alone and let them have their list with or without red links like others in Wikipedia. I don't see what harm there is in this!Ivygohnair 13:33, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

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