Talk:List of Lebanese people

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Personally, I think we shouldn't list too many politicians here – just the more prominent ones, leaving the rest to Politics of Lebanon and similar articles. What do others think? - Udzu 15:11, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Frank Zappa

Despite appearing on a number of websites, Frank Zappa is, I believe, a common case of misidentification. He himself says in [1] that his mother was French/Italian and his father was Sicilian-born. He also notes that his father was of Greek-Arab origin, but as far as I know this has never been properly clarified. While it may be that one or both of Zappa's paternal grandparents were Arabs (possibly Lebanese - though that's never stated), this feels unlikely. For one, Zappa is a very Italian/Sicilian surname. Also, a Greek-Arab combination two generations back sounds sufficiently unusual to merit further comment.

I think it's most likely that Zappa was refering to his long-term cultural heritage. Sicily was, of course, settled by both Greeks and Arabs. Either way, I don't think it's safe to list him. Juko 02:14, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Helen Thomas

I am moving Helen Thomas from underneath Politicians to Cultural Figures:Writers. --AStanhope 13:22, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bob Katter

I have reverted Juko's edit which removed Bob Katter. His ancestry is unquestionably Lebanese, not Afghan (unless his ancestors went from Afghanistan to Lebanon). His grandfather was a Lebanese immigrant, and his father worked to promote Lebanese-Australian ties. This and this are two sources among many that I could find.

Also, I think it is questionable whether Alam should have been removed. David Cannon 21:22, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

There seems to be conflicting reports regarding Katter, though your second link seems pretty reliable-looking. A number of websites, however, mention a disparaging remark by Paul Keating about Katter's late father, supposedly in reference to their Afghan heritage. See for example here. Also, your first link contains at least one error – Paula Abdul's father is Syrian Jewish and her mother French-Canadian Jewish.
Regarding Alam, I'm happy to see him readded. My only worry had been that given the size (and disproportional contribution) of the Lebanese diaspora (there are 300,000 Lebanese in Australia alone), the list might become unbrowsable if we listed every local politician.
Finally, is there any reason why you deleted Steve Bracks?
Oops! Sorry, I didn't mean to delete Steve Bracks! I just reverted the page to the previous version without checking to ensure that nothing new was deleted. I do apologise. David Cannon 11:10, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Actually, my bad. I'd added Bracks without noticing he was already there (albeit in the wrong place alphabetically). Oops! Juko
Juko 09:39, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Charles Malik and Keanu Reeves

Charles Malik appears to have two entries, Keanu Reeves was born in Lebanon but has no Lebanese ancestry? Thanks. Tiller1 09:17, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Reverted page move

I have reverted two page moves made by an anonymous editor without consultation, which created double redirects, and, more importantly, made this list inconsistent with the pages related to other countries in this project. If you want to move this page, please get consensus. David Cannon 21:32, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Neil Sedaka

Neil Sedaka's inclusion appears to be mistaken -- Ashkenazi-Jewish mother whose family came from East Europe, Sephardic-Jewish father whose family came from Istanbul. Am removing for now. AnotherBDA 16:51, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Yasmine Bleeth

Yasmine Bleeth's father is Jewish and her mother is a Pied-noir (ie. her mother is ethnic French but born in North Africa, in this case Algeria). Her own Wiki states this clearly and links it accordingly.

Being Jewish does not preclude one from being Lebanese. f(x)=ax2+bx+c 08:57, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lebanese diaspora

There should probably be a page called "Lebanese diaspora", where all the people who are not actually Lebanese should be listed at. Anyone up for creating it or should I? Mad Jack O'Lantern 04:47, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if "diaspora" would be the right term to use. In any case, I don't think people who are born in Lebanon but have no Lebanese citizenship or ancestry belong with everyone else on the list. At the very least, they should have a separate section. f(x)=ax2+bx+c 08:57, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Request for Comment: Notable Lebanese and assassinations

This is a dispute encompassing two issues. Specifically on whether "assassinated", "executed" or "nearly assassinated" individuals should be described as such in a list (e.g. [2]) and generally over the detail of descriptions added to individuals listed (eg, [3]). Also the extent to which indivduals with no Wiki articles (yet) and questioned notability should be listed (e.g [4]). These include, but are not limited to:

  • Catalina Prince, Model "Ford Supermodel of Lebanon 1996"
  • Waleed Hourani, composer, pianis
  • Meen, an alternative lebanese band founded by Fouad and Toni Yammine.
  • Elias Ghanem - Head of the Las Vegas Boxing Association
  • Elie Yahchouchi- former head basketball committe of the Sagesse club(3 times Asian Champion)
  • Richard Hibey, American attorney in Washington, DC, brother of Jim Hibey, son of Anthony "Ezhiyah" Hibey
  • Jim Hibey, American attorney in Washington, DC
  • Patrick Joseph "PJ" Hasham, a fictional character in the long running Australian drama series Blue Heelers was of Lebanese descent.
  • Chadillac - The 'G' out of Lala
  • Tarek Yamout - nail and yarn art
  • Paul Zgheib - Photographer
  • Nadia Tueni - poet
  • George Zahar - publisher & editor (Lebanese father)
  • Issa Makhlouf - poet
  • Mikhael Neame - writer
  • Maroun Abboud - writer
  • Nidal Achkar - poetess
  • Tarek Hijazi - Managing Editor of The Middle East's first and best selling western entertainment magazine - Teen World Magazine -

-- Rockpocket 21:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Statements by editors previously involved in dispute

  • Jaber: I am not going to say anything . I think I have said and done enough. What I did is make the article look more decent and less humiliating for my country. If you compare mine and his version, you can conclude which is better. He has made no effort to make it look better, he copied the list from other websites and did not bother to search for these names, some of which had other spellings. If you consider what I did as vandalism, then do not bother to block me. I am not going to contribute to Wikipedia anymore, as long as there are people like "Lcnj" who can do whatever they want without being accounted for their actions, which I considered as vandalizing the article. Do whatever you want to the article, I'm to busy and tired to fix it each time. People like Lcnj, or whatever his name is, drove me out of the country. I would be surprised if this person has any friends. Also, I happen to personally know three of six people you mentioned. Do not call me uninformed, as you do not know me. Jaber 13:02, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Lcnj Justification in support of his side of the dispute:
  1. As a friendly gesture towards dispute resolution and reaching consensus, I agree to remove all and only those notable persons listed above from Catalina Prince to Tarek Hijazi even though I believe that we are doing this Article injustice by the removal of the highly such notable and highly decortaed Lebanese writer as Maroun Abboud [5], and the world reknowned Lebanese Pianist Walid Hourani [6], [7], and I will personally remove them as soon as this dispute is resolved.
  2. The simple fact that Jaber was initially insisting on removing legendary, very well known, and notable Lebanese figures like the Mir Mjid Arslan, Elias Rahbani, Wadih El Safi, Zaki Nassif, Emile Edde, Joyce Gemayel whose status in Lebanon is almost that of Barbara Bush in the US with her former President husband and Minister Son, etc... etc.... tells ANY informed Lebanese that he is most likely not an informed Lebanese nor is he familiar with who is notable and who is not in Lebanon.
  3. As for the notable people I started adding the following sources; Mir Mjid Arslan [8], Elias Rahbani [9], Wadih El Safi [10], Zaki Nassif [11], Joyce Gemayel [12] and more that can be verified in the Article.
  4. As for the assassinations, I added the following verifiable good sources in support of my belief that all such assassinations took place; Dany Chamoun [13], Bachir Gemayel [14], Pierre Amine Gemayel [15], Rafik Hariri [16], Elias Murr [17], and more that can be verified in the Article.
  5. At one time, Jaber agreed to keep ALL the notable persons but insisted on removing the assassination references WITHOUT providing any sources that support his side of the dispute. Later, without consensus, he simply went ahead and removed notable people that he agreed to keep.
  6. One more thing, After I added Musa al-Sadr and Hassan Khaled, I made a point to reach out and let him know that I added them and offered to remove them should he disputed them. He specifically said that "he agreed to adding them" [18] then later attacked me [19].
  7. I have very little time to dedicate to Wikipedia, however, as part of this dispute, I will continue to try to provide good verifiable sources on assasinations to support my side of the dispute.
  8. I would have liked to see the dispute resolved as another dispute on the Article Lebanon was resolved the Wikipedia way. See Matn v/s Metn Lcnj 03:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
  • As neutral administrator attempting to mediate between editors in dispute, I offer no opinion. But will ensure the consensus of the community is upheld. Rockpocket 21:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Comments

  • Instead of providing reasoning for his side of the dispute ON THIS Article Discussion page along with "good" verifiable sources, Jaber, unrestrained, keeps engaging, without any accountability, in false baseless accusations, continued Personal attack and condescending remarks such as "People like Lcnj, or whatever his name is, drove me out of the country. I would be surprised if this person has any friends". This is not justificiation for his side of the dispute as I did above in good faith... this is not just "impoliteness", this is a flagrant continued Personal attack that remains unrestrained after an insicere apology... and he still "gets away with it". Lcnj 16:52, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation requests

As a matter of process, if one is querying something on the list - and that person already has an article about them - then please check the article itself for a reference before adding the request. If a reliable source is noted there, then add it to the list yourself. This stops us losing good content simply because the original contributor forgot to source.

If the information you are querying is repeated in the article, but is unsourced there also, then add the request to the article page. This is the place other editors are most likely to find and add the request. If the information is not in the article, then by all means add the citation request to the list entry. This obviously does not refer to individuals without articles (red links). In these cases, reliable sources should be provided to indicate both notability and Lebanese descent. Consider WP:LISTV:

For purposes of list inclusion, the most reliable source is the long-standing consensus of editors on the content article of the thing listed; the failure of a content article to support list inclusion criteria should be treated as prima facie evidence against its inclusion in the list. Transient or widely disputed characterizations on a content article should be treated with suspicion by list editors. List editors should also consider whether a characterization within a content article, even if long-standing, is presented as consensus opinion or as the position of a specific named external source; in the latter case, the citation to an external source is only as good as the external source is.

Thanks. Rockpocket 22:50, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WARNING about the Removal of good verifiable sources

A good Editor, be it retired, blocked, unblocked or shadowing under a new name must remain civil and not, single handedly, remove another Editor's good verifiable source without courteous discussion on the Article's discussion page. This is considered impolite to say the least. Vive la France, Vive Le Liban, Vive Tout Le Monde, Vivent les Vacances!... Lcnj 17:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

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