Talk:List of Latin place names in Iberia

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[edit] Iberia versus Hispania

I strongly recommend that the title of this article be changed to "List of Latin place names in Iberia". In the present day and age, "Iberia" is universally used to refer to Spain plus Portugal. I realize that Latin "Hispania" also referred to the entire Iberian peninsula, but you didn't write Balkans or Continental Europe in Latin, did you? If there were no modern term to refer to the entire peninsula, I would understand the use of the Latin word, but since there is a perfectly good term, namely Iberia, that's the one that should be used. Pasquale 23:33, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm agnostic on this name. Better wait a week or so to see what others think, as this is the first discussion here. However, I'm unaware of a Latin equivalent for the Balkan peninsula or Continental Europe.

--William Allen Simpson 08:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

We should keep Hispania. Because that's the name of the peninsula, even today you can use Hispanic Peninsula, alhough it is very rarely used, because Spain took a form of the name to itself. In English, 'Hispania' is often translated as 'Spain', and that is a serious subject. And today, that is even more serious, because many use English sources, and Portuguese history is now refered as Spanish. That is not the case, it is a neutral name, and one will no confuse with Spain.

If we keep Hispania we can see that it relates to the Roman period. At least, in Portuguese both names are seen has different things (hispânia for this period, and Espanha for Spain). Although people prefer to discuss Lusitânia, but when the issue is all the peninsula, people and historians use Hispânia or Iberian Peninsula (in the geographical sence, not just Iberia). And the name, refers to both countries, and has inpact on both countries. Isn't that a Phoenician name? the Phoenincians had strong cultural influence in the Ancient peoples living in the area of Portugal (much more than the Greeks with their Iberia), and they used that name to places in both countries. So Spain, Gaul, Italia, etc... are names suitable for these article because these are articles related with the Roman period and lusitania was a province of the Roman Hispania. For instance, the latin right, was declared to the cities of Hispania (Lusitania included). So, i've no problem with the current situation. -Pedro 15:24, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Pedro, you make some good points, but you also make plenty of incorrect statements.

(1) No one says Hispanic Peninsula in English, I guarantee you, it is always the Iberian Peninsula. Also, there are many university programs in "Latin American and Iberian Studies," an expression meant to cover both Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking Latin America and both Spain and Portugal.

(2) The Latin names listed in these articles do not necessarily relate to the Roman period, as you seem to think. As William Allen Simpson makes perfectly clear, they are Latin names from all ages, some very modern indeed. They are in Latin form simply because Latin was the European language of culture throughout the centuries. And Simpson did not name the other articles "List of Latin place names in Italia", or "List of Latin place names in Britannia and Hibernia", etc., so why "List of Latin place names in Hispania"?

(3) The term Iberia relates to the Roman period just as much as Hispania. Iberia was used in Greek, but was not Greek in origin. It was the native name of the Iberians (Iberes). Granted, the Iberians only lived in the Eastern and Southern portions of the Iberian Peninsula (reaching into Southern Portugal, although just barely), however, culturally speaking, they held sway over the entire peninsula. Variants of the Iberian script were adopted by the Celtiberians, the Lusitanians, the Tartessians, in the sense that these scripts are all clearly derived from the Iberian script. Geographically and culturally speaking, "Iberia" clearly applied to the entire peninsula. Remember Maximus, the fictional character in the movie "The Gladiator"? In the movie, he is called "Spaniard". Now, guess how you say that in Latin. Don't know? I'll tell you. You say "Iber" (and that covers, by extension, the whole Iberian Peninsula, not just the people called Iberians). If that movie were to be dubbed in Latin, they would be calling him "Iber", not "Hispanus" or any such thing.

(4) Yes, (Latin) Hispania is of Phoenician origin, but (Greek) Iberia is of Iberian origin, therefore originally a native name.

(5) As regards the modern usage of "Iberia", please refer to the Wikipedia articles Hispania and Iberian Peninsula. The second one starts off like this: "The Iberian Peninsula, or Iberia, is located in the extreme southwest of Europe." Later it lists the countries in the peninsula, as follows: "Spain, occupying the majority of Iberia; Portugal, the westernmost part; etc." The article on Hispania says: "Iberia and Hispania refer not just to modern Spain but to the whole peninsula; Hispania can also rarely include the western part of Roman Mauretania in what is now Morocco." You can clearly see that Iberia is more precise, since we are not including Mauretania here.

Pasquale 21:12, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I see your point, it should be Hispania if the rest is "Italia", "galia", etc... Today noone uses hispanic Peninsula, not even in Portuguese. The Iberia thing relate to Eastern Iberian peninsula, far from Portugal. But, yes, it should be Iberia if one uses "italy", "france", etc. -Pedro 16:01, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah, sweet agreement! Moving....

--William Allen Simpson 08:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)