Talk:List of French hip hop musicians

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Our lists should only include notable guys-- this one lists everyone from France that's made a song, practically. List should be rewritten. Anyone disagree?--Urthogie 15:40, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Does anyone oppose removing the non-blue links?

Speak now before we have a bot do it. Anyone oppose removing the majority of this article and keeping only the blue links?--Urthogie 14:08, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. There are lots of people on the list who should have an article, but don't. I do agree some of it is rather useless, but most of it isn't. Most of the names on the list don't even have links, so you can't tell if they've got articles or not. - ulayiti (talk) 15:51, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I can have the bot move it to a subpage called Talk:List of French hip hop artists/Redlinks. Would that solve the problem?--Urthogie 16:29, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Er, no, because then the information wouldn't be publicly available. - ulayiti (talk) 16:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Well the thing is we'd move it on to the page once we made articles for them and decided that they were notable.--Urthogie 16:59, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

But it's not 'we' who makes the articles, it's the community. And the community needs the redlinks to make the articles. (Well, doesn't need, but it helps.) - ulayiti (talk) 17:08, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Ok. How about we test them for notability on /Redlinks, and if theyre notable, we link to them from the list, article or not?--Urthogie 17:15, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean by 'testing for notability'? - ulayiti (talk) 17:24, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Seeing if they pass WP:MUSIC--Urthogie 17:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I think the list should stay,nearly every rapper is either real popular or at least semi-popular with alot of albums out or at least featured on main compilations.just because they are not linked doesnt mean they not popular,for example ol kainry,mystik,o'rosko raricim,kennedy,oxmo puccino,hamed daye,mafia k'1 fry are just a few of real very popular rappers on list that are not linked,the list is good because people can look at the artist and either google or google image the artist,in fact almost all,but not all of these artists brings up google images ,even some underground rappers such as eskadron and lmc-click from grigny a suburb south of paris are looked up by most of community as the most important and popular figures in the whole suburb,a culture that has no comparison to usa scene,taking away the list will simply leave alot of visitors to this page in the dark about the real french hip hop scene.

If thats the case, then we'll add the notable ones from the subpage.--Urthogie 15:55, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Why do you want to move them away from this list? WP:MUSIC doesn't even apply to list items, just articles. - ulayiti (talk) 16:45, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Well Wikipedia:Lists does require that there are finite limits for notability on what could be there. It seems like a completely unhelpful list if it just lists every rapper, including non-famous 10 year olds that rap in france. What would be a fair guideline to decide what should stay, if not WP:MUSIC?--Urthogie 17:19, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't list every French rapper, and even if it did it would still be helpful to people who don't know they're French rappers. - ulayiti (talk) 18:24, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

The question still remains: what is the concrete standard for addition to this list?--Urthogie 18:46, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

There isn't one, like there isn't for most other content on WP. It's clear, however, that you don't have consensus for deleting most of this list, so why keep arguing about it? I for one won't discuss this any more. - ulayiti (talk) 19:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Huh? Lists have to have a standard according to Wikipedia:Lists, no?--Urthogie 21:04, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

No. - ulayiti (talk) 21:52, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I think it doesn't serve as "useful information" if there's no guideline, and any french rapper can be included.--Urthogie 21:59, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

i have an idea,first all these artists are from france with the exeption of muzion,les architeks,complys and laco$st these 4 arstists are from canada and usa which should be deleted from list since we made this not francophone hip hop but french hip hop as in nationality,francophone hip hop should be placed in appropriate category for example senegalese hip hop or canadian, 2nd and most important how about we break up artist category into location,for example most french rappers come from the 7 departements outside paris such as val d'oise-95 val de marne'94 seine saint denis'93 essonne'91 etc. numbers mean alot in french hip hop for example you see shirts or car license plates say i reprazent 95 which would mean departement val'd'oise or i reprazent 94 which would mean departement of val de marne,, just for example off top of my head departement of essonne south of paris has these rappers,ol'kainry,agression verbale,ul team atom,lmc click,code 147,block 35,black v.ner,eskadron to name a few, arsenik and armaguedon come from departement of val d'oise-95. and the huge rap collective with france's top rappers mafia k'1 fry which is made up of many of france's top rappers such as rohff,manu key,intouchable,kery james,ideal j,karlito,different teep hail from val de marne-94.i feel if we break up rappers by departement it would be much easier to keep track and to put into proper perspective the popularity of rappers,once again france rap scene has no comparison with its american counterpart since even underground french rappers are even more popular sometimes in their respective banlieue than a commercial one,an example is lmc-click from grigny who are widely popular and known all over departement of 91 essonne,but might not be commercial nationally,on a culture level rappers are looked up to as idols and educators by the millions of blacks and arabs who live in these suburbs,as they learn about france's racist past and present, the french youth live and breath hip hop unlike anywhere else ,usa rap is entertainment,but in france its often political and taken very seriously.so what you all think should we make categories by departement for rappers? i will go ahead and delete the 3 canadian rappers muzion,les architeks,complys and sole american one from L.A laco$te ,,all the rest seem to be from france i know alot of them even underground ones.the editor badagnani made a great change few months ago by changing this to rappers from france as opposed to francophone rappers,after all this is music of france,,french hip hop meaning nationality not language,i would like to keep it the way badagnani made it.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.160.253.43 (talk • contribs).

I'm not a big fan of the idea of splitting the artists by department, cos it won't be easy to find out the exact department in every case (and not all of them identify strongly with the department, especially if they're not from Île-de-France). We could have categories like that though, for example Category:Hip hop artists from Seine-Saint-Denis. Outside Île-de-France they could be grouped by city, eg Category:Hip hop artists from Marseille. - ulayiti (talk) 00:40, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed rename

How about if we rename this list List of French and Francophone hip hop artists, and use it to list all the notable rappers/groups who record primarily in French, and then use Wikipedia's categorization system to differentiate between artists of different nationalities?--Rockero420 00:46, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm for that, though List of Francophone hip hop artists would be a better name. - ulayiti (talk) 00:50, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Agreed.--Rockero420 07:50, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Sure thing, but we still need a guideline for notability in the article.--Urthogie 08:25, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The list is copied wholesale from the French Wikipedia, which I was hoping to use as a guide. Notibility should be: radio/television airplay, discussion in the press, or large underground following (which would be difficult to verify). But the list is better with the many, many redlinks unlinked.--Rockero420 21:08, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

This list doesn't seem to copied from French wikipedia; its much larger. This seems to suggest we're putting in too much, ignoring notability.--Urthogie 09:26, 2 March 2006 (UTC)