Talk:List of Freeza related characters in Dragon Ball

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the List of Freeza related characters in Dragon Ball article.

I added pictures and movelists from the game universe for all the characters. I fixed some inaccurate stuff as well as reordered the page accordingly. - Zarbon

Contents

[edit] Though your name argument holds *slight* merit...

.. for giving the dubbed names of the characters (FUNimation is a primary distributor of DragonBall related merchandise in NA along with Viz)...


**STOP DELETING INFORMATION WHOLE-SALE FROM THE ARTICLE.**


Though you may not know, techniques and maneuvers given in games have always been deleted within the base of anime articles. It is irrelevant for the intentions of a bio for any character not born from games, i.e. Chun-Li. I apologise for the amount of work done in copy-paste, but that's the way things have always been.

You and your various IPs/socks have a wicked tendency to pull this off after the editing of your work. Wikipedia is nothing without group effort into the improvement of its articles, but you put that entire process in a chokehold by nature of your rigidity and refusal to work with others to improve something after you've laid so much as a finger on it. Your history is well-documented, and I'd hope any third party we'd go to for adjudication wouldn't fail to denote it.

Kill the whole thing again and I contact an administrator for arbitration, something that probably should have been done in the first place. As it is I might just contact other frequent DragonBall Wiki editors and have them give their thoughts on the matter. Papacha 14:41, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to agree with Papacha on this one, all other characters have their moves named in the either the series itself or the Daizenshuu. However, I think a compromise to this could be had. Zarbon, have you considered making an entry on Wikibooks for the characters and their special moves?
Additionally, I'm not sure I like Appule and Cui being listed as Freeza's top henchmen we have no idea of their rank. Could they be listed under other henchmen instead?
And let's not have the edit wars spill over here as well. Before any major changes Zarbon please discuss first and get consensous. Beowulph 15:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I doubt Appule, but Cui's actually a fairly strong guy for being around that arc in DragonBall Z. I think he falls just below Dodoria as far as strength goes, back when Toriyama had official levels for characters (before he cut it for story purposes). Still, he's not one of Freeza's main hangers-on like Dodo & Zarby.
And Wikibooks might not be a bad idea. You'd probably have your run of the place, creating pages and adding combos & move list depictions as you see fit. That's the place that specific kind of information typically goes, anyway. Papacha 15:32, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Character list pages

I like the idea of this page as a possible way to get around the monstrosity that List of Dragon Ball characters has become, but you may be straying from the source material a bit and adding (well-reasoned, perhaps) supposition. Frankly, a lot of stuff just isn't said in the manga/anime and the daizenshuus are unreliable because nearly all of the information we have *in English* that comes from the daizenshuus come from websites that add their own layers of supposition. So, this is a tricky road.

All that said, fighting move lists are some of the most difficult topics. First, because most of the moves aren't named in any canon sources. I think there aren't more than two dozen moves named in all of Dragon Ball, and almost none for the minor characters. And once we get to this point in DBZ, technique names become rarer. And second, because there are many DB-based video games in the US and Japan and they all have character moves and things which don't necessarily agree. In general, moves that come from the games are best listed in the game article, or on a game-specific Wikibook, with a link to that page from here.

The tricky part about these "list of" pages is that the per-character information necessarily needs to be brief. The reason the characters are listed here (generally) is because they aren't important enough to warrant their own article and so having article-length stubs with tons of extraneous information is counter-productive and hurts the value of the list overall. I'd suggest that you could have a summary section of "techniques of Freeza's army" which describes (in canon terms) the overall style, types of body armor, etc. And then do less per-character information. JRP 15:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

yeah the whole attack guide is not a bad idea. but still, i am going to add back the information i had originally submitted for Mr. Zabon-Sama, Mr. Dodoria-Sama, and Mr. Kiwi-Sama. - Zarbon

Nothing was lost from any of their articles. Sentences were merged, punctuation was improved, and details were added at points within. So far as the lub-fest was, it got to be NPOV and had to be culled into neutrality. Papacha 16:27, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Handsome Mr. Zarbon

yeah the whole attack guide is not a bad idea. but still, i am going to add back the information i had originally submitted for Mr. Zabon-Sama, Mr. Dodoria-Sama, and Mr. Kiwi-Sama. Also, when the hell are Neiz, Salsa, and Doore recorded as Sauzer, Neis, and Dore...why in hell are the japanese namings added. The English dubbing is prevalent when naming the characters because they are easily RECOGNIZABLE. Most users do not know Salsa as SAUZER but as SALSA. And the information on Mr. Zarbon is not as magnificently drawn out as in my description. Maybe you don't get it, but I practically live, breathe, and survive for that matter, to spread the true image of Zarbon, Dodoria, and Cui, them being my ultimate point of living and for the last 12 or so years, existence. - Zarbon

Also, when the hell are Neiz, Salsa, and Doore recorded as Sauzer, Neis, and Dore
Because that's the character's actual names, I reckon.
Most users do not know Salsa as SAUZER but as SALSA.
Salsa mentioned in course of article. Still doesn't change the fact that Sauzer's his actual name.
And the information on Mr. Zarbon is not as magnificently drawn out as in my description. Maybe you don't get it, but I practically live, breathe, and survive for that matter, to spread the true image of Zarbon, Dodoria, and Cui, them being my ultimate point of living and for the last 12 or so years, existence.
Then I'd assume your life to be very empty or you to be a sad troll. Live it up. Papacha 16:36, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Do you think I'm lying? There are 6 Zarbon action figures made in history. I own 65 of them in duplicates. Zarbon appears in 19 episodes, 17 in DBZ and 2 in GT. He has 2 appearances in DBZ movies. And why are you referring to Dodoria's fruit as malodorous. That's opinionated. I happen to love the dorian for the sheer fact that it resembles Dodoria. - Zarbon

Because the fruit is know for its peculiar fragrance? The dorian article makes a major case even for this issue. But if you like it shall be removed. Papacha 16:45, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

That's not the only thing. I made some very minor changes in your Zarbon bit, look at it. For one, compare the two. See the features that I am crazy about and don't remove them. you will find that such things as "VERY HANDSOME" and "LOVER OF BEAUTY" must stay. these are the things that DEFINE him. oh, and also, Light blue skin, not pale blue skin. thanks. - Zarbon

I agree that certain edits are for the better. But saying Zarbon is *very* handsome (though indeed he may be) is an example of NPOV, which Wiki avoids at all times. Brother's not bad lookin', but you yourself can not say it. You may mention that he considers himself to be, though.
Also broke up the wall of text between certain characters (particularly w/ puns) because left alone they wind up running on. Papacha 16:58, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
And just so it's not problem, direct was added because he's Freeza's primary go-to go guy, working directly beneath his master. However, the majority of the hireling Ginyu Force are far stronger, and as it was made it appear Zarbon was the strongest of all. Papacha 17:04, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

yeah...okay...if i take out very, the substance of handsome still remains, but without POV inclusion. akira's intent upon creating the character is that of portraying zarbon's handsomeness regardless of what fans see him as. tell me what you think. also, if you want, i don't want to sound commercializing or advertising or anything, you can join my forum...its dedicated to frieza's army and zarbon for that matter (found on my user page) - Zarbon

I'm cool with it. After all, even Bulma gets a crush on him. Of course, she also makes out with Vegeta, thus putting her taste in a serious state of question. ^_^ Papacha 17:13, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

i'm not sure if its appropriate for me to chat about anything i want, since i don't know where else to chat with you, but bulma also crushed on my favorite dragon ball character, general blue. she seems to always have the best choice in men regardless of the fact that she ended up with the one character i don't like at all. - Zarbon ^_^

Mmmkay. It's not really kosher, but so long as we're brief.
Best taste? Er, dunno about that, though maybe as far as looks are concerned (but then again, VEGETA). She falls for a notorious thief, a blond sadist who kicks around little kids who might also prefer the company of men, and a gofer for an ubiquitous and mass-murdering tyrant (and, by-the-by, morphs into this scary reptilian *freak*).
You must not like Mercenary Tao then, considering he literally tongues Blue to death. You'd figure not even Blue would have resigned himself to that fate. Heh. Papacha 17:41, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

i love blue but well, i can't say i hate tao, because i don't. at least he spares himself the shame of joining goku and making barbecue with the z gang on saturday evenings. basically, all the guys i like get killed...getting killed has become a quality that all my favorite characters share. tao is acceptable in my book for the sheer fact that he doesn't become "good." All villains who stay villains to the bitter end and die painfully are pretty much my favorites. Well, any other anime you can think of, i pretty much can tell you who my favorite character is. he he. - Zarbon

I agree that saiying that Zarbon is handsome is an example of NPOV. Whether if he is Zarbon's favorite character, we don't care at all. That way, character pages like Son Goten, Bulma, Lunch and Oolong would be full of sentences such as "Oolong is The Funniest Character" or "Bulma is very Hot", just because they are my favorite characters. I can't do that, like Zarbon can't do it either, just because of his preference. I also agree that Japanese names have to be kept, because the standard ones.Muchi 23:35, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

You're missing the point. Zarbon IS handsome. that's not just my opinion. that's the intention of the creator. - Zarbon

Why don't we just say he's considered handsome? IMO this is supported enough by his own thoughts on the matter, Toriama's drawing of him and Bulma's instant-crush on him. Beowulph 23:53, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blueberry, Raspberry... and Strawberry?!

Hold up... I'm almost certain it was Raspberry (dorkish human) and Blueberry (gator-man-dog-thing). Can someone validate this while I check myself? Papacha 00:44, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's Blueberry. I'll change it and add a pic, but the bio's been lifted from http://www.myfavoritegames.com/dragonball-z/Info/Bios/dragonball-z-character-b.htm. It'll need to be altered to avoid plagiarism. Papacha 00:55, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

that's interesting. Some places they refer to Blueberry as Strawberry and other places they refer to him as Blueberry. It doesn't make sense. Do they mention his name directly in the anime. I know he's a filler character, but I'm curious as to what his name is. Also, if you want, I have separate pics of the guys on the FF tree page i can add, without bulma. - Zarbon

They are Razuberri and Buruberri in the original Japanese. I guess someone can change their section to those names if they like. Voice of Treason 03:14, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Does Frieza have any other major (not nobodies, but kind of important) henchmen that played a part here? I actually think this might be it. Otherwise, the section's looking pretty good. Voice of Treason 03:20, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Nah, that's about it. This is most of the major Frieza Forces. However, Nappa and Raditz should seriously be here too, since they served under Frieza well long enough. - Zarbon

It looks a fair bit better than it did, in any case. Though I believe the one pic for the two grunt-fillers is best, as it doesn't bust the page lay-out like the individuals. And since they're under one name it makes a lot of sense.
I'm for leaving out the Saiyans and their ilk, though. These contents pages are meant for characters that are almost exclusive to Freeza and his roster of lackeys during the Freeza Saga, or those related by blood. Lapdogs like Nappa, Raditz and Vegeta need not apply, and are probably best left in their own section as to avoid confusion.
And on that note, since this section appears to be shaping up it might be time to look into improving another character contents guide. I'm open for suggestions. Papacha 05:32, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I personally don't like the fact that raspberry and blueberry are listed together. i prefer every character to have his section. but i'm not going to stress it for those guys. - Zarbon

[edit] Orlen?

What about Orlen, the guy who seems to be the same race as Mr. Appule but has orange skin, red eyes and fangs? I think he merits a mention, although for the life of me, I can't understand why Appule's role in finding the destroyed village was removed from the anime; since he gets killed off immediately afterwards, Orlen's existence is pointless, not to mention confusing since it was APPULE, not Orlen, who left Dende's village with Mr. Zarbon.

Also, how about Mr. Dodoria's four underlings from the Bardock special? I know none of them were named, but they had an important role in killing Bardock's friends and even participated in what is (in my opinion) one of the very best fight scenes in the entire DBZ storyline. You could list them under the collective title of "Dodoria's Men" or something. - Kooshmeister

Dodoria's troupe are nobodies, and though it's a precursor to something grander Bardock's men aren't that important either. Blue and Rasp are only here because of sticking around way past their welcome as Toei filler. The scientists in the restoration tank are sadly more notable than any of Dodoria's flunkies.
And as you said, Orin (Or is it Orlen? Who cares, he's an ORANGE) is pointless, so there you go. Papacha 06:22, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I meant he was a pointless addition, not pointless to the story. Even though I believe they should've kept it so Appule finds the Namekian village, the fact remains Orlen is important to the story since it is through him that Frieza learns Vegeta hid a Dragon Ball somewhere. - Kooshmeister

S'all right. If that's how you feel, be bold and add him in. I'm against listing unnotable toadies, but if you feel Orin had a important anime part to play write up a short bio and post it up; we'll work on the clean-up together. You can even note the story-line change between the anime & manga. Zarbon's got a decent enough pic of him to use. Papacha 01:09, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Already did, using the spelling from the closed captioning on my copy of the Quest compilation tape (although Orlen is never identified by name in dialogue, the captions give his name when he delivers some offscreen lines prior to his death). And I added Dodoria's entourage as well, because although they are all nameless nobodies, I feel that as a group they had an important role to play in the story. - Kooshmeister

[edit] I'm getting dizzy...

From all this moving. Someone get me a barf bag, I need to sit down... Papacha 06:25, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree about Orin, he's only in that one scene, and i have him listed in the family tree along with namole, bund, and all the other fellows, so he's got enough recognition, but i agree that he doesn't deserve his own section. he just had a bit role. - Zarbon

He was actually in two scenes, one where he finds the destroyed village, and then when he returns to Frieza's ship and gets killed.

Also, Malaka is not the the doctor on Frieza Planet 79. The name Malaka is only used to refer to the similar-looking doctor who dies with Plenthorp (?) when Planet Vegeta explodes. - Kooshmeister

you're saying the names wrong. His name is Planthorr. I had them listed when i made the family tree pages. Malaka is the doctor, I believe, regardless of the fact that his name's not mentioned there. (bar the possibility that he perished with planet vegeta because malaka is identical in appearance) - Zarbon

Well, character designs get re-used all the time. But for his purple skin and yellow spots, Appule is identical to most of his species. Besides, Malaka and Planthorr are both clearly shown on Vegeta just prior to its complete and utter destruction. To me, this signifies that they die when it blows up. - Kooshmeister

that would signify the same to me as well, except for the fact that an exact duplicate of them shows up later on. - Zarbon

An exact duplicate of Cui shows up later too. Where was the name actually used? There's no way that doctor got off Vegeta-sei. Freeza didn't warn his henchmen, we see that as he plows through his own army with his death ball. Noone on Vegeta knew what was going to happen, and unless that doctor can teleport... Also there's the issue of the Bardock special effectively being filler. They borrowed the design for the doc, just assuming that's what his race looked like. So where was the name first used? Onikage725 09:50, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dodoria's elite pics

I'm taking this to the discussion page, since it might not ever ever happen otherwise. I really think they make their part of the article look pretty bad, as it breaks up whole sentences in the paragraph. I think a group picture like the Ginyu Force would look much neater. Plus favorism keeps being added at the bottom about Dodoria & Bardock, which shouldn't even really go there in the first place. The mini pictures -- [1] Voice of Treason 06:07, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

That's why it's your opinion. As a matter of fact, the raspberry and blueberry pic is not really a good one because it doesn't give them enough spotlight. Regardless of how you feel on the Mr. Dodoria issue, he did practically OWN bardock so that is a part of it, so if you don't like it there, it can easily be moved to the Dodoria section, but since it DID happen, why would you want to neglect it? Dodoria is a MAJOR character and the impact of his actions should be stated, it doesn't matter how you feel about bardock. - Zarbon

Yo~! I'm an objective, totally and completely impartial with no strings attached third party - well, maybe not *so* objective, as I've put a lot of work into this article, meself - and the pictures are beyond oogly within the framework of the page. I don't own the DVD, but seeing as you seem to Zarbon it wouldn't be any great shakes to make one yourself. None of the above are important enough to warrant the "spotlight" when there's other means available (heck, I had questions with some of them being listed there in the first place). I'm for leaving it blank for now until I either pick it up or someone caps a decent one to end this travesty. Also - the one person Dodoria hit parade doesn't need to be there as it's a *sparkling* example of POV. Mention how he's still unable to harm Dodoria, and we're one-and-done. I imagine it was neglected in the first place because it doesn't particularly pertain to the ultimate fate of these four. It follows as Freeza doesn't receive mad props for taking out Vegeta in any of his flunkies' bios. So please, no more gushing, Zarbon. And as Muchi has said, there's no undeniable proof Sauza's a take on the charcater. One big point in your favor is that they're both voiced by the same seiyuu (Sho Hayami) but seeing how you think the original work is of no great use it could be seen as hypocritical to embrace it now. "Might be" instead of "is" if it has to be mentioned at all.
VoT - DO NOT continue pushing this the ways that you have. It's good you made the discussion page, but don't provoke other users either, regardless of your personal feelings. They can get you in trouble with the admins despite your best intentions, and you can just as easily be reported for breaking the revert rules yourself.
Zarbon - "fine. have it your way. lets see who gets tired first"
One thing VoT didn't do was encourage this silly revert war. You were already warned about pushing like this in the past. With your best interests in mind I'd think you probably shouldn't be doing it again. And just so you don't look goofy, "intensive purposes" is a malapropism. "For all intents and purposes" is the cliché you're looking for. @_@
I'm rolling back for now until we get a more thorough consensus than "three". Wikipedia:Resolving_disputes might be valid. I'm not even sure how much more may contribute, given the childish nature of the argument. But keep it up and I or someone else will report one or both of you on the Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR. Papacha 20:11, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I didn't mean to escalate the issue or cause trouble for other users; I apologize for breaking the rule. I'll be more courteous in disagreements with other editors in the future. Voice of Treason 01:56, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, okay whatever you say mastora. I fixated the pic thing with one pic, although it looks miserable in comparison because the characters are negated attention. Sure, Vegeta can get 50 different wiki pics but these guys don't deserve one? Gimme a break. it's favoritism i tell ya. and dodoria DID own bardock. i can't believe that people try to neglect that fact. It's one of the major reasons why I love Mr. Dodoria, for obliterating that two-bit buttmonkey. (it's obvious i hate saiyans) - Zarbon

Yeah, okay whatever you say mastora.
Thank you. For my next trick, Wikipedia:Civility! It's not always about taunting or getting the last word in to get your point across. Papacha 22:34, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

From a joking perspective, if I ever need a lesson in ethics, I should turn to Papacha. lol. Come on man, lighten up. I'm trying to go along with these revisions. The fact of the matter is, I literally live for Zarbon and Dodoria. As idiotic as that may sound, it's the truth. I really do LIVE for them. Their existence and their portrayal should be in a positive notion. I will always try my best to place the following in a negative notion for instances that most people can't comprehend: Vegeta, Goku, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Bardock, Pan, etc. you get the idea. The only saiyans I find respectively awesome are Nappa, Raditz, and Paragus. No ifs, ands, or buts. That's it. That's my criterion of judgment. I wish the people here were on terms with my perspective. - Zarbon

That's the point though, Zarbon. Your positive opinon on Zarbon and Dodoria and negative opinion of most Saiya-jin characters are entirely your own. You have every right to them...but not here. I for one am a big fan of Zarbon and Kiyui. I could sing Zarbon's praises with you. I don't share your monkey hatred in general, but I pretty much think Vegeta's a tool and Goku's an idiot. These topics would make great conversation over AIM, on a message board, or as content on personal websites. However, on an encyclopedia we must maintain NPOV and state just the facts. I see you're "playing ball" a bit more now and that's good. Onikage725 22:44, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

thanks for your observation. i'm trying my best. i'm glad you noticed that. i just wanted to get the message across, guess the discussion page isn't a bad place to do so. And I'm glad you like my first and third most favorite characters in history. - Zarbon

Third = Kiyui/Cui? Cuz one friend of mine and myself are hardcore fans of him :p

Yeah well...for informational purposes, here are my top three favorite characters in the history of dbz in all of its entirety:

1. Zarbon

2. Dodoria

3. Cui

- Zarbon

[edit] See also section led nowhere, so I deleted it.

S'okay?

[edit] Main Articles

it is recommended that Zarbon, Dodoria, and Cui receive main articles like Frieza, Cooler, and King Cold. Why? Simply because King Cold appears in 4 episodes total including his return and Zarbon appears in 17. Zarbon and Dodoria without a doubt deserve their own pages. Cui is somewhat debatable with his 4 episode appearance, but even that is in likeness to King Cold. Someone should seriously open up main articles for Zarbon and Dodoria. Also, primarily keep in mind that Cooler appears in only 2 movies. Another very odd occurence is that Kuriza has received his own page. He's not even in the DBZ manga, it's already odd enough that he's listed here just because he's in Neko Majin Z when the page itself deals with Frieza forces and not neko majin additions. Any comments on Zarbon, Dodoria, and Cui receiving pages because at this point, they appear more onscreen than King Cold for sure. i'm going to make pages for Zarbon and Dodoria. I will leave Cui up to debate for the time being but keep in mind that he appears more than King Cold. - Zarbon

[edit] Doctor on Freeza Planet 79

Just thought I'd explain why I removed mention of him dying when Trunks blows up King Cold's ship: the doctor never left Freeza Planet 79. It's a common misconception that Freeza's reconstruction took place on the ship due to Cold's line in the dub of "Change course!", when actually this occurred in the medical facility on Planet 79. For whatever reasons Funimation tried to make it seem like those scenes took place aboard Cold's ship and not the base. In any event, there's no evidence the doctor went with Cold and Freeza to Earth, much less died when the ship went kablooey. (And if I'm wrong and we do see the doctor aboard the ship, please feel free to correct me) - Kooshmeister

I removed it altogether, since the doctor spoken of in the piece is a casualty of Planet Vegeta. The new doc shouldn't be confused with him, just like the few other members of Cui's race.
  • Also, please leave my newly uploaded images alone. Their quality is fine when they're small, and more importantly they're different from the same tired old images seen on every DBZ site on the planet. Variety is not the spice of DBZ life due to the reuse of the same pics since the 90s. - Kooshmeister
    It's there because the "tired old image" is a clear pic, properly sourced, and not blurry like the other. Commentary on "Variety is not the spice of DBZ life" isn't a valid argument for putting a lesser picture above another. Find a better cap of it (or do it yourself) and there would be no problems. Voice of Treason 00:14, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
    Also, the image is familiar only to certain DBZ fans (like you and I), not the majority of viewers of this encyclopedia. It wouldn't matter how "old" the picture is, it would still be new to them, and from their viewpoint the clearer pic would be the better of the two. Voice of Treason 00:51, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
    Well unfortunately there are no better caps, and I did make it myself. The visual quality is the best downloadable version of that episode I've found. In any event, I completely and wholly disagree with you on this. As long as the characters can be made out, I'll take the slightly blurry screenshots over the scans of trading cards and animation cels (in Cui's case), so expect me to come back to this sometime in the future when I can get my hands on better quality versions of the episode(s). - Kooshmeister
    Please do. The only problem I have with the pic is its blurriness, so if you can create a clearer cap you'll find no problems with me. Orin needs a better quality pic as well. Voice of Treason 23:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coola's Armoured Squadron vs. the ginyu force

How strong are the members of cooler's armoured squadron in comparison to the ginyu force, I ask this because in the namek saga goku defeated all of the ginyu force with no effort at all (excluding captain ginyu who goku spent a whole episode fighting before powering up and guldo but he was already dead before goku got there) but then in movie 5 goku still easily beat them but he seemed to use a lot more power also if you could give exact power levels or a rough guess that would be great thanks User:Kami-Sama.

Well...Cooler's Team is hard to guess, but my estimates for the Ginyu Force would be somthin' like:

  1. Guldo: 10,000
  2. Recoome: 40,000-60,000
  3. Burter: 40,000-50,000
  4. Jiece: 40,000-50,000

Cooler's team must be at least 50,000 each, at most 70,000.--KojiDude (talk) 02:11, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

thanks User:Kami-Sama

but who would win the ginyu force or coola's armoured squardron

and please create a main artical for coola's team.

[edit] King Vegeta ???

May I ask why you haven't added king Vegeta to Freeza related character list after all he was the king of all saiyan and in the flash back of dbz you see freezer treating king Vegeta in a similar fashion to zarbon and dodoria I now that king Vegeta tried to kill Freeza but Freeza was asking for betrayal when he took his son Vegeta of him.

And about my previous question you answered my question about the ginyu forces power level but did not answer my question about who would win in a fight ginyu force or coolers armoured squadron. thanks User:Kami-Sama

King Vegeta isn't a Freeza related character...If we added everyone Freeza killed or used as a pawn to the list it'd be endless.--KojiDude (talk) 16:49, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] main article

Can I please ask you if you would create a main article for coola's armoured squadron like you've done for the ginyu force (an article with all three of the members of the squadron) I ask this because the coola's armoured squadron are some of my favourite characters in the dbz movies. User:Kami-Sama

Probably not, and any attempt at making one should be speedied as fancruft. They're minor characters easily covered in the base of this article and Coola; the Ginyu are the focus of part of the manga and a decent number of episodes. Papacha 20:16, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Relativity

  • KojiDude recently added Cell to the list. I for one am highly against this addition considering the fact that he holds no rank whatsoever to the Frieza Forces. He is rather just an addition to the group of villains Frieza teams up with in hell, as well as Dr. Gero. Nappa and Raditz are even more plausible than Cell. The only thing holding him close is the dna, which he shares with various others as well, including Goku, Piccolo, Vegeta, etc. Anyone else with contributions on this issue? I for one vote against Cell's addition to this page. - Zarbon
Cell is one of Freeza's accomplises and is related by DNA. Cell would be twice as much of a related character as Zarbon or Cui would be. I've read past discussions here, and it seems to me that you only want to remove him because you don't like the idea of Cell being grouped here with your favorite characters. I don't think a straw poll is nessecary.--KojiDude (talk) 18:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Strongly Against --Zarbon 18:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Forget the poll, man. Wikipedia is not a democracy. Now, if we want to get serious, we've gotta take off "Coola's Armored Squadron" as they do not relate directly to frieza. Futhermore, yes, Nappa, being one of his soldiers, would relate. So would Vegeta. It's called "List of Freeza Related Characters in Dragon Ball", not "List of the most loyal, non-saiyan members of the Freeza/Coola/Cold empire/army". (Thank goodness, too, since that title is unwieldy as heck.) ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 00:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I say the article is fine as it is, nothing should be removed or added. Cell should stay for the reasons I stated above. About Coola's Team, they should stay too lest we have no place for them, and then somebody will have to make an article for them.--KojiDude (talk) 01:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Sounds a little hypocritical to me, dude. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 01:10, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
How would it be hipocritical? O_o...--KojiDude (talk) 01:44, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
"My changes are fine, but we shouldn't mess with the status quo". If you're serious about including freeza related characters, let's do it. However, you ironically accuse Zarbon of bias when you yourself don't want to include anyone else or removed characters who've arguably never even met freeza. And It's spelled with a "y". ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 22:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I only don't want to remove them because they've got nowhere else to go, and I don't know nearly enough about them to make them their own article (They could possibly go on List of other aliens in Dragon Ball, but that page is already extremley long). If you could find people to add, go right ahead. And what I was accusing Zarbon of was thinking about himself rather than Wikipedia.--KojiDude (talk) 22:28, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Please continue to add your response without altering the article. Vote against or for, but do not add Cell until there is enough evidence that he should be included. As of now, it isn't justified and there aren't any votes in your favor. Wait for some people to come and give their opinions. - Zarbon
Zarbon, forget the poll. Cell became a freind and teammate of Freeza while in hell. They were also related by DNA. That's more than enough to earn him a spot in this section. You've yet to show anything that says otherwise.--KojiDude 18:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Ace Class Shadow said: It's called "List of Freeza Related Characters in Dragon Ball", not "List of the most loyal, non-saiyan members of the Freeza/Coola/Cold empire/army". I was the one who originally split up the DB character articles and when I called it this, i meant "List of Freeza related Characters who don't fit better into another list" i.e. Cell, who obviously belongs in the Androids list. Cooler's goons go here because they are Freeza's brother's goons, not another major villain who happened to team up with Freeza after they were both dead. as for whoever said they share DNA, Cell shares DNA with almost every major fighter in the series, so thats pointless. It can be stated on Cell's page and thats all it needs. Plough | talk to me 07:51, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Thank you very much Plough, I've been trying to say that exact same thing but kojidude just wouldn't understand. thank you for helping to clarify this perspective and removing cell, whom obviously doesn't belong here. - Zarbon
So you're saying being acomplises and sharing DNA doesn't mean anything? Freeza shares DNA with Coola, but they're enemies, not acomplises. So Cell would be more of a "Freeza related character" than Coola or Coola's squad would. Also, no other lists have related in the name.--KojiDude 16:44, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps i should have been clearer when i named it then. "List of Dragon Ball characters in Frieza's family and those that work for them and dont fit into another obvious catergory like Androids or Saiyans and go on this page so they dont have to go on the misc. aliens page when there's a clear link bvetween them: i.e. Frieza". Plough | talk to me 23:46, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
If there was an article called List of Super Saiyans in Dragon Ball, we would list Goku under it, Because Goku is a Super Saiyan. There is a list for Freeza related characters, so we list Cell in it, because he is an accomplise of Freeza's. It's the same concept.--KojiDude (viva la BAM!) 01:36, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Plough. Cell should not be here. This is getting annoying. - Zarbon
You haven't said anything but "He can't be here because I say so". I've listed 3 points as to why he should be here, and as you must have learned in kinder-garden, 3 beats 0.--KojiDude (viva la BAM!) 21:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Cell isn't an accomplice of Freeza. He never meets Freeza. That is non-canon filler in the anime, and non-canon period for GT. Going by the manga, the two have nothing to do with each other aside from Cell having some of Freeza's DNA. The points brought up by the others here (Zarbon not included, since I haven't really seen much in the way of valid arguments from him) hold, regardless of if Zarbon said anything or not. Cell doesn't belong here. There are better places for him to be and redundancy is not desirable.
Sorry, but I agree that Cell should not be included in this article, except PERHAPS as a very brief mention that he meets with Freeza in some filler episodes (and I don't even recommend that).
Daishokaioshin 23:45, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
The non-canon henchmen are listed, as well as Coola and hsi team. Just because it isn't canon doesn't mean it never happened, so I kinda fail to see your point.--KojiDude (viva la BAM!) 23:53, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
So remove the non-canon henchmen then. And yes, "it never happened" is EXACTLY what non-canon means. It does not occur within any canon continuity. If you'd like for the Coola stuff to have its own page, then simply search for "List of Coola Related Characters in Dragon Ball" in the wiki search bar, click on the red link that results, and make the article.
Also, you seem to have failed to see the other points provided. Such as: Cell already HAS a place in the List of Androids in Dragon Ball article. There is NO NEED for him to be here if there is a more appropriate place. See above where I said, There are better places for him to be and redundancy is not desirable. He already has his own article, and is listed in the List of Androids in Dragon Ball. He doesn't need to be listed on here as well.
Daishokaioshin 01:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Dragon Ball canon was deleted, and the AfD stated that we are not to make any assumptions of what is or is not canon anymore, so it shouldn't make a difference wether it is canon or not. Also, what's so bad about him being in two lists? If he can be logically placed in this list, why not? A person searching for Freeza related characters would want to know all of them, not just the ones that don't go anywhere else.--KojiDude (viva la BAM!) 01:14, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
everyone on the page is deservant of being there...except for cell. he is in no way aligned with frieza whatsoever. he doesn't even MEET frieza until they're both dead for crying out loud. and that in itself is NON CANON. If ten other members here agree with me, then kojidude, you need to see that you are simply mistaken. - Zarbon
I already provided a point that overules the "non-canon" exuse. Come up with some new ones, please.--KojiDude (viva la BAM!) 02:23, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I just did. he doesn't have a relationship with frieza till death. and that's only in three scenes. in no way is he even related to frieza, much less "miscellaneous". I'd say that Orin is miscellaneous, but not Cell. Cell is completely unrelated. If Cell would be included, then you might as well put Dr. Gero there too. He's seen right next to Cell and Frieza as well, on more than one occasion. And while you're at it, why don't you just put the unnamed Ogres and Demons who appear beside them, just because they appear. (sarcastic) Seriously, Cell does not belong here at all. The people in Freeza's army and his connections through his mercenary teams belong here, not people he associated with during his life and even lesser, after his demise. - Zarbon

[edit] Ginyu Force

It's not nessecary for them to each have their own summaries. here just needs to be one of the whole group, and if a reader wants more, they click the link for the Ginyu Force. I understand they're your favorite characters, but that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want with the page.--KojiDude (viva la BAM!) 23:52, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. They're not necessary. If we're going to keep them, it should be a summary of all of the members in one paragraph (two if needed). They already have their own page and the summaries here are pretty much word-for-word. Sasuke-kun27 00:05, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Exactly. Having summaries here defeats the purpose of the Ginyu Force article. If they're listed here, why not just slap an AfD tag on Ginyu Force while you're at it?--KojiDude (viva la BAM!) 00:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
What we have now is fine. If you want more info on the team members, click on the link. It would be stupid to use the 3RR arguing over whether or not the Ginyu Force should list every single member on this page (when they have their own page and everything here is pretty much copied and pasted from there) when we could be acting like civil people and talk over this like we're doing now. Sasuke-kun27 00:14, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The fact is the page is called list of Frieza related characters not Frieza related groups. Meaning it's about the characters not just a group. It should be listed the same way Cooler's armour fighting squad is listed. It does not defeat the purpose of the Ginyu Force page, the Ginyu Force page has many other things listed other than just the bios. If this is the way you think, to shorten everything, why don't you just take away Goku and Vegeta page, why not just have Gogeta :p And I don't think I can do anything I want with these pages but sure looks like that's what you think. User:Recoome

Sarcasm or not, Gogeta and Goku/Vegeta are three entirely different people. Whereas the Ginyu Force on this page and the Ginyu Force article are almost exactly the same. The only real difference I notice is "Sentai and the Ginyu Force" and "Video Games". Sasuke-kun27 00:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Coola's squad don't have their own article. So what if it isn't list of Freeza Related Groups? The page only needs a short summary of the group, and a link to their main article. What good does having them all do other than giving your favorite characters more recognition? (Also, a little side note, Gogeta and Goku/Vegeta are entirley different entities with entirley different pasts and personalities, so that argument is more or less useless)--KojiDude (viva la BAM!) 01:07, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

First of all, you people can't even take a smart-ass joke about your own favourite characters but don't mind screwing up pages of the people you hate such as The Ginyu Force and Cui. You don't own these pages, I even went to the bother of shortening the descriptions down to make it easier for all of us. Huh how pointless, I should have expected immature villain-haters like you to do this. The fact is these pages originally had the Ginyu Force characters listed... and I wonder who came along and took it away???? User:Recoome

Somone who knew it wasn't necesary to have the information. We are not doing this out of "hate" for villains. Kiwi is the english manga name for Cui, thus the name that should be used here. The Ginyu Force do not each need their own summaries, for the reasons listed already. Please see WP:OWN and WP:NPOV.--KojiDude (viva la BAM!) 01:21, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] page move

ok. I have come up with a solution. the page should be moved to List of non-Saiyan Dragon Ball characters in Freeza's empire. It is true that Freeza has a galactic empire, and all the character on here fit into that classification, without any ambiguity as to whether Cell should be on here. and "non-Saiyan" prevents Vegeta etc from needing to be here. Plough | talk to me 08:05, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

True, but then Coola and his henchmen would have ot be removed, scince they're not member's of Freeza's empire.--KojiDude

hmm, what about "Cold Empire" then, because Cold is Freeza and Coola's father Plough | talk to me 07:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

It kinda seems to me like you want to do the move just because you don't want Cell on the page, which is a pretty clear example of bad faith and a WP:OWN issue.--KojiDude (Contributions) 07:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry I'm kinda late here, but now that you guys mention it, shouldn't Vegeta be listed on the page? I mean, he was one of Freeza's top fighters (I believe) until he started fighting against Freeza. I mean, if Cell gets a mention, I believe Vegeta should get one too. // Sasuke-kun27 20:40, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
If you think they should be added, go ahead. It sounds like a logical idea to me.--KojiDude (Contributions) 20:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] good improvements

I think Im taking this article into a good direction. with some recent fixing and all. I DO however need some henchmen so if anyone would be willing to help me then you are welcome here!!-Sarzad 03:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

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