Talk:List of Florida birds

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I have removed Mangrove Swallow, since it is not in the list of North American birds, and is not mentioned as a vagrant to the USA in Turner and Rose, Swallows and Martins ISBN 0-7470-3205-5. jimfbleak 06:49, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

This brings up an interesting dilemma that I didn't think I would have to face until I got to the list for Texas. The NA list doesn't include it because the ABA did not accept the sighting(s). The Florida list did because the Florida Bird Records Committee did accept the sighting(s). Since we are using two different independent authorities there is a discrepancy. My feeling is that since the article claims to be using the list published by the Florida Bird Records Comittee, it should include it. However, since the NA list doesn't include, it (and any other similar species) should be explained in the intro. Something along the lines of:

"This list includes the Mangrove Swallow and the Black-hooded Parakeet, species which are not on the List of North American birds. These listings are based one or more sightings that were accepted as valid sightings of a wild bird by the Florida Bird Records Commitee. However, the American Birding Association, the authority used on the North America list, did not accept the sightings as being valid. Dsmdgold 14:32, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that FBRC accepts the Black-hooded Parakeet which is also not on the NA list. This, I think, is a case of disagreement over wether or not the population is "established in the wild". Two birds on the pending list, the Common Peafowl and the Purple Swamphen, if and when they are accepted by FBRC, will be in the same boat. Dsmdgold 15:02, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I am happy with this with one caveat. In most European countries the national rarities committee decides whether to admit new species, and regional bodies refer "official" rarities to this body and accept their decision. This at least means the US/Florida siuation cannot arise. If the national body is the final arbitor, and Florida accepts this, than the swallow should not be on the local list anyway. jimfbleak 15:16, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

The situation is bit more chaotic over here. The state Ornithological Societies (OS) are usually independent of all of three of the national organizations (the AOU, the National Audubon Society, and the ABA). The bird records commitees are usually a part of the state OS, although some are part of the state Audubon Society. However the National Audubon Society does not publish a check-list. The state societies do not always defer to the national organizations, in part out of a sort of "damn it we know what we saw, what do those bastards know, they aren't here" mindset. An interesting account of one such dispute, the acceptance of a sighting of the Blue Mockingbird can be found here. Dsmdgold 16:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Black-hooded Parakeet (better known as Nanday Conure, but that's another can o' worms...) simply hasn't been taken up by the ABA Checklist Committee yet; it will probably be added in their next session. I didn't know they'd rejected the Mangrove Swallow - on what grounds?

IMHO the AOU and ABA Checklist Committees are rather redundant; they should only consider cases where there is no state Records Committee. In all other cases, if the state RC accepts it, the "higher ups" should rubber-stamp it.

[/rant]

- Aerobird 21:31, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Well aftr some checking, it seems the ABA did accept the record in May, 2005. The sighting was in November, 2002. I don't know what took them so long. The NA list had not been updated to reflect that. It now has. (A total of 5 species added and 1 removed due to lumping). Of course now all of those "there are x species world wide, y North American species, and z state species" statements in the individual state lists will have to be adjusted. Sigh. Dsmdgold 03:21, 30 March 2006 (UTC)