Talk:List of Dragon Ball special abilities

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This article was nominated for deletion recently. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

I have added a number of kanji to various techniques, as well as corrected incorrect ones and fixed meanings. Techniques whose kanji I could not directly source from the manga, I did not add (and hope someone else will at a later date). --Julian Grybowski 03:32, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] GT Techniques?

Should DBGT techs be added here? On one hand, it may cause the page's size to increase significantly, but I do believe it would be a handy bit of information. Just a thought. Lordshmeckie 04:08, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bakurikimaha

I have added a section for this attack and a screenshot, but several fields still need to be filled out- is there anyone who has experience with this type of editing?

[edit] Rogafufuken

what would be a better picture, Yamcha actualy using it, or a picture of the wolf?

The Wolf.

[edit] Ken

As I understand it, the 'ken' in attack names is only a figure of speech, and doesn't literally have the meaning of fist, and is thus more properly translated as "technique/move". Do you think Rugrats gets translated in Nihongo as 'carpet rodents'?

[edit] Chobakuretsumaha

Question about the listing for the Chobakuretsumaha- where is that name listed? As I recall of that attack (and the picture used next to the listing supports this as the one he used on Stage 1 Cell), the one time he used the attack he didn't call out an attack name. Our only indication was tfrom part of the first episode title of the 1st part of the segment that lead to Cell attaining his second stage- The Gekiretsukodan that Split the Heavens!!

I believe the attack name comes from the Daizenshuu guide. Beowulph 17:20, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

The translation has been commonly misinterpreted between the two. However, the only times the attack described is named are in the videogames (as Gekiretsukodan" and in the episode title close to when the technique was actually used. I also went and re-watched his fight with Goku in the Ma Junior Saga, and he says "Chobakuretsumaha" before unleashing his area attack. It is not the same technique at all...

Alright, I'll make the changes then Beowulph 20:54, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Destructo Disk

Was what Vegeta used to cut Gohan's tail realy a destructo disk? It didn't have the same appearance or even any of the similar sound effects. It was just a disk shaped ki blast...

Vegeta and Goku have both used Kienzan-like attacks before, but they are NOT "the" Kienzan used by Krillin. They are just energy disks. The Kienzan is flat with a rotating edge of "sharp" Ki. The move used by Vegeta against Gohan, and the move used by Goku against Super Buu, were both just roughly disk-shaped Ki blasts. Similarly, Freeza's "Death Disk" (Tsuibi Kienzan) was not a "red Kienzan" but an entirely different technique, with a homing element added to it. It was this, and not Krillin's Kienzan that Cell used when fighting Goku. Krillin even says at first, something like, "Hey! Is that my Destruco Disk he's using!?" and then someone points out that it's the same attack Freeza used on Namek, against SSJ Goku. So, this means that the ONLY individual to use the "true" Kienzan was Krillin. The others were either imitations, or different techniques entirely.

Daishokaioshin 23:43, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Someone has edited saying Goku and Vegeta used the Kienzan technique even though they were just energy discs.

[edit] Sources for kanji names

Just making this section if anyone finds any useful sources:

[edit] Galick Gun

"There is considerable debate about the correct transliteration of the move's name, with some fans thinking it is Garlic Gun or Gallic Gun, etc."

Just thought I'd throw out here that Galick is pretty much a FUNi word (replacing the old Saban-term "Gallet"). Garikku (or more accurately ga-rikku) literally translates to "garlic". That also keeps in line with the general Saiya-jin/Vegetable pun. I'm also fairly certain that "Galick" isn't a word...in either language :p

Try saying "Galick" out-loud. "Gah-lik" is how it's pronounced. Being half Japanese myself, I know from experience that it can be difficult for some Japanese to pronounce English words if they aren't familiar with them. "Gah-lik" or "Gah-rik" is how someone who is Japanese and not fluent in English might pronounce "Garlic". This fact is kind of lost on American audiences due to the mispronunciation of "Galick" as "Gaa-lik" instead of "Gah-lik" by Vegeta's voice actor. The point remains, however, that Galick, much like "Freeza/Frieza" being the Japanese way of saying "Freezer" and "Coola" being the way of saying "Cooler", is correct.

No one debates the accuracy of the name "Freeza", so why pick on "Galick"? I'm not criticizing you for bringing this subject up, just trying to show the reasoning behind using the name "Galick" is not just a "FUNi word". It is an attempt at translating Japanese phonetics.

Daishokaioshin 07:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I obviously do not speak Japanese, but I thought that the equivolent of our "er" is "aa," not just an "a." Freeza the romanization of Furiza, and it's meant as a pun on the word freezer, not the word itself (as far as I've always thought). Likewise it is Koola/Coola, and the dub uses Cooler. This was actually mentioned in Koola's article (I use the K rather than the C out of familiarity but I know it doesn't really matter). Like his brother and father, Coola's name is a pun on all things relating to the cold. As both Coola's and Freeza's names end in a short "a" vowel (rather than the long "ā" which usually signifies "er" in kana spellings on English words), Freeza's name is typically spelled with an "a" at the end (as opposed to "Freezer"). Logic would follow that Coola's name should in turn be spelled in a similar fashion (as opposed to "Cooler"). Note that FUNimation Entertainment, the company responsible for DragonBall's production and distribution in North America and Australia, chooses to spell the name as Cooler (and Freeza as Frieza) despite this logic.

As for Gallic, I'll concede that due to the pointlessness of debating the usage of an l as opposed to an r, and for my own confusion of transliteration and transcription. Onikage725 20:32, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested mergers

While Fusion is probably far too long (it should probably be more detailed than what it is anyway) I believe Shunkan Ido and possibly Kamehameha (Dragon Ball) need to be merged into the base of this article and not kept unto themselves. Does anyone agree/object? Voice of Treason 03:02, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I've got no problem with Shunkanido being moved here. The Kamehameha one I'm on the fence about. Beowulph 23:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 10x Kamehameha?

It's not a video game only move, SS4 Goku even says Tenfold Kamehameha or something along those lines when using it in GT

SSJ4 Gogeta says "Not even you can survive the power of the Kamehameha times ten" (Juubei Kamehameha in the Japanese version) while fighting Ii Shenron. He makes 9 illusions of himself, and pretends that they're all going to shoot kamehamehas. Instead, they all shoot those little party favor things with confetti and such. It was a joke. The name is never used by Goku for any REAL move. The name 10x Kamehameha comes from the videogames only.

Daishokaioshin 23:52, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Just watched the relevent episodes, and the Jubei Kamehameha is Goku's SSJ4 Kamehameha basically. The announcer said (Japanese version mind you) that Goku had tried to finish off Yi Xing Long with the "Kamehameha x 10," and the actual words used were "Jubei Kamehameha." Also, Gogeta produces 4 clones for a total of 5 for the confetti gag. Onikage725 20:34, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Wait a minute; didn't Goku call out the x10 Kamaehamaeha's name during the fight with Golden Oozaru Vegeta-Baby? I'm positive he did. It didn't hurt baby initially, but its after-effect stopped him from doing his attack. Anonymous 02:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Goku did use this attack against Bebi, so, no, it's got game only. Lordshmeckie 04:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Centering smaller pic sizes

While I like the usual format, I believe keeping the original image and centering is better than blowing up the picture past its alloted pixel size when no bigger one is better. It looks much tidier that way. Agree? Papacha 01:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manga vs. anime and movies

I don't think we should list non-manga users of moves in the main box, as that sometimes leads to contradictions. I think that we should list the non-canon instances seperately in the description instead. Beowulph 13:18, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I recommend that we start tagging non-cannon users in the boxes with an asterix. Beowulph 15:40, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shunkan Idō equals Warp speeds?

Is the Shunkan Idō (teleport) the equal of Warp Speed in the DB universe?

No, it's "Instaneous Movement" i.e teleportation. Warp Speed is fast, but as Jonathan Livingston Seagull teaches us, "perfect speed is being there." Onikage725 20:37, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chi/Ki

What exactly is the difference? I'd always been under the impression that they were the same basic concept, just with two different cultural spins. Also, beyond that actual terms, it seems from my viewing that in the Dragon Ball universe they use the term ki, or chi in the Viz translation (as opposed differentiating between both for individual uses). Onikage725 14:34, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Chi is the energy present in all things. It comes in different types and different polarities. Ki is present in living things only, and OCCASIONALLY the environment, under special circumstances, and is of only one type, without necessarily having any polarity.

There is Earth Chi, Magnetic Chi, and Heaven Chi. There are the polarities of Positive and Negative. Chi is a Chinese concept, Ki is Japanese. They're similar but different. Chi is more of a cosmic force, while Ki is spiritual energy.

Daishokaioshin 05:17, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I hate to say this but there is a difference between ki and chi. Chi is vital life force that keeps one alive, fuels body function, and allows one to have ki. The ki is mind energy caused by the mind of the user and is controled by it. This comes from the Japanese characters used to show it in the manga. 気 means "ki" or energy while 血 or "chi" is more connected to the life force concept.

[edit] Thunder Flash

How come Thunder Flash isn't listed? Pikuhan gets no recignition? :( KojiDude 13:15, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Thunderflash, and Pikuhan in general existed only in the anime/filler. See "Canon" discussion -Tiak 22:49, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kousengan

When did Nappa fire beams from his eyes? Beowulph 11:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

When he went after Earth's military forces while waiting for Goku to show up.

Daishokaioshin 01:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jibaku Users

Goku was about to use this move in GT but Vegeta stopped him. Even though GT is non-canon I think this should be recognized.

Can you provide a reference as to when? Beowulph 16:17, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

He's right. I have to get back to you about ep number, but it's right before Vegeta showed up when he was losing to Shenron. Shortly before they fused into Gogeta. He decides to self destruct, then Vegeta shows up and berates him before going SSJ4. Onikage725

I'm the same one who did the first post. The episode was entitled Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta the number is 59 in the dub.

Ah, then that would be Friend? Foe? Were-monkey Vegeta on the Rampage! in the original.

[edit] Bakuhatsuha used by Freeza?

When he does the swift motion to cause the massive explosion after transforming into his second state on Namek, Freeza says, basically, "Even a Saiyan can do this much...". Voice of Treason 01:39, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canon

Where was it decided that attacks used in filler are not canon? Those episodes are generally accepted as canon, so why are the attacks not accepted as canon? TJ Spyke 06:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Because they weren't used in the manga. If it isn't in the manga it's non-canon, which goes for everything in DB.--Koji Dude 06:06, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not getting into this with you again, I know what you think. I want to know where was it decided here that the filler isn't canon? I checked the log and someone just added it a few days ago, no discussion here. TJ Spyke 06:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Somone didn't "add it a few days ago" the Non-canon Usage has been there for a while. And scince no one has removed it for weeks, it means that they all agree that GT, Movies, and filler are non-canon.--Koji Dude 06:11, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

If this is a problem, then, pending the result of the AFD at DB Cannon, I think an acceptable alternative would be to call it Non-manga usage. Beowulph 11:26, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Genki Dama and Cell

I think what I've got on there right now is a pretty good solution. Cell is listed as "possibly" able to use it; the being good thing used to apply to Super Saiyan as well, but Vegeta disproved it. We also clarify that he never used it in the manga, only in the video games. Beowulph 11:20, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

That's speculation to say he can "possibly" use it, though. Cell doesn't use it, and can't use it. No one EVER said that you had to be pure good to turn SSJ. That is completely a fan-based theory. The Genki Dama, on the other hand, has been proven to be useable only by those who are of good alignment, since anyone who is evil who touches gets the crap blasted out of them. Cell made the claim he could use it, but there's no evidence that he was telling the truth. It may have been the truth as he understood it, but not the REAL truth. He had Goku's DNA and (disregarding the fact that knowledge of techniques isn't stored in DNA in the first place) thus may have known HOW to use the Spirit Bomb, and BELIEVED he could use it, but that does not in any way imply he COULD use it if he tried. Knowing how to do something and doing it are two different things. Cell may have known how to use the Spirit Bomb but have been unable, just as Krillin and Gohan had no idea how to use it, but were able to attack with it anyway once Goku did the work for them. All of that positive energy and life force would not have responded to Cell calling for it to come to him. I think that King Kai/North Kaio, after how long he has lived, would know the limits of the Spirit Bomb and his stating that the Genki Dama requires one to be a good person automatically excludes Cell from the list of those who could make use of it.

Also, as I have pointed out repeatedly, he never uses it at all in either the manga or the anime. And regardless of what has been decided about "not deciding Dragon Ball canon" videogames never have been, are not, and never will be an official part of Dragon Ball continuity, especially not ones like the Budokai series that take numerous liberties with the story, providing alternate versions of events, and so on.

Saying that just because we're "not allowed to decide Dragon Ball canon" means that the "The Plan To Conquer Earth" storyline in Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi is canon, or that the movies which do not fit at all into either the manga or the anime are canon, is utterly absurd. The results of the discussion do not mean "everything is canon". They mean that we cannot state what is canon in articles on Wikipedia. And guess what? That includes stating that video games and movies and GT and filler episodes of the anime that contradict the manga are canon! So saying that we have to include Cell in the list of users of Genki Dama because he uses it in a video game is an endorsement of its canonicity. This is not a "List of Dragon Ball Videogame special abilities", and while brief mention of things being done in videogames is acceptable, listing an individual as a confirmed user in the anime or manga when they never made use of a technique is misinformation.

And Kojidude, it was Tsuibi Kienzan that Cell used, not Kienzan. Luckily it was already fixed by Beowulph, but in the future, make sure that your changes are accurate before making them, please.

Daishokaioshin 19:32, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, in the manga (Volume 29, chapter 6) Kuririn states that it's also impossible for Vegeta to turn into Super Saiyan because one needs a pure heart.

The thing is, we don't know exactly what the limitations of the Genki Dama are; maybe only good people can learn it and Cell was able to bypass that by getting the knowledge directly (it would seem that in Dragon Ball, having the DNA does actually allow access to the techniques). There's no way to say for certain if he can or can't, but Toriyama seemed content have Cell at least believe he could.

Additionally, while I can locate Goku stating that Gohan won't be affected because he isn't evil, I haven't found anything that says one needs to be good to summon the Genki Dama. Can you tell me where this was mentioned? Beowulph 01:18, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Kuririn is hardly an authority on SSJ. Him stating such things shouldn't be taken seriously. He was DEAD when Goku first transformed after all. As for the being good thing, it's common sense. The user of the Genki Dama is ASKING for everything to SHARE their energy. If one is evil, one is as likely to get the energy being requested as one is to discover the secret of immortality by smoking cigarettes. It isn't going to happen. And I know that in DBZ techniques are stored in DNA, which is why I said "disregarding the fact" because it doesn't apply to DBZ. Also that rant about canonicity towards the end wasn't directed at you, but rather at those people who made certain comments in their edits to the article. Just so you know I wasn't upset with you or pulling that out of nowhere or anything. :)

Daishokaioshin 07:06, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

While I agree that it at first sounds like common sense, we don't know that it relies on asking for energy, especially since it can come from non-sentient sources such as a star. Is it not possible that once could just take it instead? Beowulph 11:01, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Guys, hold up a minute. Cell does use it in the video games, and states that he can use it. If he uses it in the ideo games, then all we have to do is put his name down with a asterisk next to it, and there's no problem. It's really not a big deal on wether we think he can use it or not, it's the fact that he did use it that matters.--Koji Dude ^{(viva la} ^BAM!) 16:02, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Except that he DOESN'T use it. Videogames are not part of the Dragon Ball continuity. They are not credible sources of information. Nothing in a videogame, in whole, or in part, is to be taken as reliable when it comes to determining FACTUAL information about the usage of techniques in the MANGA and ANIME. If you want to go make an article devoted to all the different techniques that appear in videogames, you're free to do that. But this is article is not about videogames. It is about the actual series, and not merchanise based off of it. Next you'll want us to be saying that Majin Buu canonically absorbed Vegeta just because he does it in a videogame.

Beowulph, that's speculation about just taking the energy, and who's to say that sentience is a requirement for sharing energy? Goku drew upon energy from people and places repeatedly without their being aware he was doing so. Yes, it is possible to draw energy from the environment, such as Piccolo does with his Makankosappo. But it isn't LIFE energy, like what is gathered for the Spirit Bomb. Cell would most definitely have the ability to gather energy from his surroundings, but asking for the very life essence of a planet is something else entirely. (Also, can you point out when Goku EVER drew energy for the Genki Dama from a star? I don't recall that happening.)

However, there's no point in discussing this further. As long as we state ONLY that Cell CLAIMED he could use it, but do NOT list him as an actual user, there should be no problem. If people want to include him as a "non-manga user" just because of a videogame, then as utterly idiotic as I believe that to be, I won't complain about it further. Also, let us leave out speculation about Cell being able to use the technique just because he said he could. Including such speculation would be akin to including the fan-theories that Cell could turn into a Super Saiyajin just because he had Saiyajin cells in him.

Daishokaioshin 22:27, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Quoting North Kaio (DB 18 Chapter 8):

Remember that the 'Spirit Ball' is a martial-arts discipline that allows you to borrow energy from grass and trees, from people and animals, from inanimate objects and the atmosphere... and then concentrate them and release them.

If you can draw so much destructive power from a ball made on this small planet...

...Imagine what you can do with a spirit ball formed on Earth! If you can also learn to tap into the astounding powers of the Sun...

Well, just be careful, or you may destroy the very planet you are trying to protect!

The Genki Dama does not, according to the only person who teaches it, require it to be taken from only from living beings. Beowulph 00:29, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thanks.

Daishokaioshin 19:15, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The romanizations

How many of the attacks on this page are reffered to as that in the English manga? For example, is it called Shunkan Idō or Instantaneous Movement/Transmision? If the romanizations aren't used in the manga, they should probably be changed. And I doubt the whole "use the most popular name" policy would work seeing as those are rarely used by anyone except for elitists, and people that mostly read/watch fan translations. Nemu 19:20, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually the "most popular name policy" is used more by FUNimation fanboys than "elitists" and people who are "obssessed" as you put it. If you love FUNimation so much, good for you, but we're trying to be ACCURATE here, not "use what name we like most". You think I like having to type out some enormous name for a technique which I can't remember half the time? Wikipedia isn't about making things how we want them, despite what you seem to believe, and assuming that people are using the original names for techniques or anything else for any reason other than because it is the right thing to do is a disservice to other contributors. Please reconsider the way you refer to people who are doing their best to be true to the series and to Wikipedia, in the future.

As a note: None of that was intended as a personal attack, but as an expression of my concern for the way you are referring to people, which could be construed as a personal attack itself.

Daishokaioshin 01:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm talking about using the English manga (which apparently became the standard for character names), not the anime. And we probably should be using what people use the most as this is an encyclopedia, not a source for people experienced in the matter. The original "use the most popular name" comment was towards anyone that thought these names were used more often. Even if the attacks don't have official English names, the most literal translation should be used. Nemu 01:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

And yes, I was a little hasty to comment Voice of Treason's edit without thinking, but my above comment is correct. People are either stubborn or are using the terms they are most familiar with. Nemu 01:29, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Just to clarify, if these names are actually used in the manga, they should stay, but if it uses translated versions, it should change. Nemu 01:42, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the manga uses these names, when names are given. For some of them, there are no names, and those names are either taken from the Daizenshuu, when available. Most others are not so much translated as are fan names like "Death Ball" and "Freeza Beam" which are never used ANYWHERE except in videogames and the like (ie. not even used in the FUNimation dub of the anime).

Daishokaioshin 15:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't consider the videogame versions "fan names". The games were officially licensed, thus they are at least marginally official.--Marhawkman 06:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

The names that are more common are the Japanese ones, even though they are actually used in the anime and manga. The only reason they should be under question at all is if the person doing it used an alternative romaji (i.e. si for shi) for the attack names. The important thing is that they are universally agreed upon by the fans.

Bardock the Mexican 01:37, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving moves to the character pages

Though I didn't vote on the recent AfD, it brought up some very good points. I think we should consider beginning a migration of the special abilities.

I've created a template at Template:Animanga ability which is a start. Ideally, I suppose it should resemble a table row since most characters have many moves that we'll want to stack as compactly as possible. Beowulph 00:32, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Who thinks that Tsuibi Kienzan should be separate?

I really think the technique is different than the normal kienzan and should be made separately. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but Kienzan cannot be controlled by its' user. Tsuibi Kiezan, therefore, can. So, can I make it separate or just apart from Kienzan? Dragonball1986 03:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

It's a variant... That'd be like giving Chou Kamehameha it's own entry. Besides it's not the only variant. Granted all the others where used by Krillin, but that makes for a total of three variants. The basic Kienzan is shown as about 2-3 feet in diameter. A giant version was used against Nappa, this one was about 6-8 feet. Then there's Krillin's multiple Kienzan. That one was actually similar to the Tsuibi variant in that the disks changed direction mid-flight. Thus we're left with the final variant, Tsuibi Kienzan. Sure it's a different color, but that's not really important. Thus I think it's best as is.--Marhawkman 05:57, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

The Tsuibi Kienzan (tracking energy disk) is indeed a type of Kienzan (energy disk). They're created in basically the same way as well. Going on with Marhawkman's variations, there are also Kienzan's which do not have the little razor-blades on their edge (several of Kuririn's as well as Goku, Vegeta and 18's). Keep in mind that Goku also has a version of the Kamehameha (Magaru Kamehameha) which he can control after it's been fired, does that deserve a seperate entry? Beowulph 11:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bakuhatsu-ha in Piccolo Daimaō Story Arc

The first time we see a kind of bakuhatsu-ha is in the fight between Kamisama (Shen) and Piccolo (Ma Jr.) This is relavent because around the DBZ timeline we see Nappa performing a stronger version of it. That is possibly where Toriyama got his idea from. He would have used previous powers and reused them in his own anime and manga.

Feel free to add it...--Marhawkman 04:15, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey...What about this!

I have two ideas. Shouldn't we either make an article fot EACH attack, or someone write it over, cause I read another attack guide, and this IS NOT all.

 > Gokufistum (November 7, 2006)

If you feel something is missing that needs to be added, you may add it. I don't have time to do a complete rewrite.--Marhawkman 17:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] zanzoken

Didn't Yamcha use that before Dragon ball Z started?--Marhawkman 11:13, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Naruto? WTF?

Okay, why are we renaming Dragon Ball Z techniques after Naruto techniques? Isn't Shishin No Ken the correct name for the technique used by Tenshinhan in which he splits into four bodies? "Bunshin no Jutsu" came about when Naruto did. I don't recall it ever being used in Dragon Ball Z. I could be wrong, but I'd prefer someone provide a source so I can determine whether to rename it to the accepted and (as far as I know) actual name, or leave it as is.

Daishokaioshin 08:07, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

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