Talk:List of African-American firsts

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Contents 1 List formatting 2 Sources 3 Jackie Robinson 4 The dumbest list 5 George Washington Woodbey 6 Dehyphenated African American

[edit] List formatting

I deleted the long introduction and left one introductory sentence, as is the norm on Wikipedia. The content I deleted may be appropriate for adding to related articles. Spylab 17:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe two short paragraphs is a "long" intro. See Women in comics for a similar intro. I did try to find Wikipedia list policy by Googling "Wikipedia" and "lists", but found no relevant links. Could you point me to the relevant policy page? Thanks! --Tenebrae 05:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

• I don't know about any policy page on the matter. I'm judging this on viewing countless list and article pages. The whole point of having list VS article pages is that list pages are just that, lists - usually spun off from an article that provides the context and in-depth information. Many list pages don't have any introductions at all. Women in comics is supposed to be an article, not a list, since the word list is not in the title. As you can see, there is discussion about that issue, and whether it should be merged with something else. Spylab 14:07, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I have found the policy, at Wikipedia:List guideline, which says: "All articles should include a lead section, and stand-alone lists are no exception." With all due respect, please do not substitute your opinion ("I'm judging this on viewing countless list and article pages. The whole point of having list VS article pages is that list pages are just that, lists.") for Wikipedia policy. I'm returning the brief lead section as written, because it provides the list's necessary context and because it follows Wikipedia policy and guidelines. Please copy edit or make factual corrections, but do not pare it down to a less useful state simply based on your own preferences. The most important thing to remember is not to lose sight that the best any of us can do for this article is to expand the firsts that it lists.--Tenebrae 14:56, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Lead section, something I found while reading Wikipedia:The perfect article ... and forget about Googling "Wikipedia" because everything you need is Right Here.) --72.75.105.165 22:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

Every claim here needs a source. Without it, the claims should be deleted. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:15, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

For blue-link persons and entities, the sources appear within their individual Wikipedia articles, as per std Wiki practice. --Tenebrae 21:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jackie Robinson

One commonly cited example is that of Jackie Robinson, who in becoming the first African-American Major League Baseball player

What the heck does that mean? Besides the weird wording, this isn't true. There were African American MLB players prior to Robinson, just not for a long time. Moses Fleetwood Walker, for example, played for the Toledo Mudhens, then a National League team, in 1884. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete the Jackie Robinson example if you think it's a bad example; it'd be good to substitute another example to make the reason for this list's significance as explicitly clear as possible.

Jackie Robinson, in books and documentaries and a statute in his honor in Jersey City, is technically as the first Major League Baseball player of the "modern era," a standard term used by sportswriters and historians for technical accuracy. I'm not sure I'm following: Are you saying Jackie Robinson's appearance on a major-league team in 1947 wasn't groundbreaking? --Tenebrae 21:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

No, not at all, it was clearly groundbreaking, but we need to make it clear in an encyclopedia that there were others before him, even if it wasn't for several years. I believe that "the modern era" refers to post-1900, but don't quote me on that. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The dumbest list

Why is something like this in an encyclopedia? GhostofSuperslum 04:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia has several such lists; please see Wikipedia: Lists. I'm assuming good faith that your objection is to having a list per se and not to having a list of significant African-American achievements. I would note, however, that the tone of your posting and your use of a phrase like "dumbest list" violates Wikipedia rules of civility. --Tenebrae 16:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] George Washington Woodbey

Re the uncited claim that in 1902, the tirst African-American member of the Socialist Party of America was George Washington Woodbey: I can find references to him belonging to the party, and to being an important orator for it, but nothing that says he was the first actual member. --Tenebrae 16:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dehyphenated African American

The Wikipedia article is named "African American," with no hyphen ... I just changed over 120 instances on the main page ... please change it when you find it in other aricles as well. --72.75.105.165 22:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

The title should have been hyphenated; it was an oversight that it wasn't. According to the AP Stylebook and Strunk & White, a compound modifier is hyphenated, except for adverbs ending in "ly." Wikipedia policy is to follow those guides for grammar and spelling. --Tenebrae 04:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Then why don't you move the article named African American to African-American while you're at it? —72.75.105.165 (talk • contribs) 04:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Because "African American" isn't modifying anything. The phrase "African-American man" uses the term as a compound modifier. No biggie. I do notice that though you signed your post as 72.75.105.165 (talk • contribs), the history here records you as User:Dennette. I don't want to open a can of worms, but using sock puppets really isn't cool. --Tenebrae 04:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

D'oh! It's context sensitive ... just got overwhelmed by the sheer number in this one article. <Sigh!> Will have to revisit the pages on my watchlist, but not tonight. --72.75.105.165 08:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Please DO NOT edit other people's posts. That's a breach of Wikipedia policy. I've restored the information you removed from my post above.

Regarding context: "Major League Baseball" is the official name of the organization. "Playing baseball on the major-league level" requires a hyph.

Please note I did work with you on the excellent stylistic change you made. --Tenebrae 14:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)