Talk:Li style T'ai Chi Ch'uan

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I understand why Xcali stuck up what he did but in case anyone reads this, just give me a break. I've emailed my technical director and my local instructor for more information. I'll have it all sorted in a day or so. --Kyle Dantarin 06:40, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

[edit]

Contents

[edit] Redirects

Hi Kyle. It's a good start. I'm going to redirect this title (and several other very similar titles, Lee style T'ai Chi Ch'uan, Li style Taijiquan and Lee style Taijiquan) to Li style T'ai Chi Ch'uan for the sake of consistency with the other articles. Fire Star 20:39, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Li_Family_style_T%27ai_Chi_Chuan", because of a redirect Li Family style T'ai Chi Chuan. Fire Star 20:43, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Updates

I've updated this page. Added link to BCCMA, and some more external links.

I think there needs to be more information on:

  • Lineage - I need to get my hands on some of the books written by Chee Soo to give more information on this. (The fact that Chee Soo, under who the arts grew so much, is not mentioned needs quick attention.
  • A summary of all the organisations which teach this Style
  • A summary of the defining features of this style
  • The relations its form to the forms of other styles.

Mark Swanborough 12:18, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


The College of Chinease Physical Culture also practice Lee style, the head of college Desmond Murray was one of Chee Soo's high grade students. Unfortunatly the sites does not mention Lee Family System at all, so I don't know if its worth including. --Pfafrich 15:52, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

This stuff is way too parochial for inclusion in wikipedia. Clearly written by people who have an interest in the promotion of the lee style organisation

[edit] Sources

Lacks independent third-party verification for this actually describing a style of Tai Chi Chuan. One would look for something from China pre-1950s, not publicity material from within the style itself.

As far as I know (and I've been in the business a long time) there is no independant verification of their claims for a 3000 year history or even that this group was the "first in the west". I toned down one instance of a weasel wording but more could be done to make it plainer that these things, at least until more sources are provided, are promotional claims of the school itself. --Fire Star 火星 13:55, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Definately needs more sources. -- Medains 13:14, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger Proposal (information from Feng shou

Proposal to merge to information from Feng shou (which is only taught by the Li school) with this article to form a larger article on the teachings of the Li school. -- Medains 11:49, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Seems a fair enough idea to me. The Feng shou page needs a lot of cleaning up, hopefully this can happen at the same time. --Salix alba (talk) 13:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes. This article is small, the other (too) big. A merger and some paring of the hyperbole at Feng shou will be helpful. --Fire Star 火星 23:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC
I've merged the articles, removed some of the more obvious advertising and also included the salvageable bits of Chang Ming Diet into theis article. I think we may also be able to merge K'ai Men into this one. --Fire Star 火星 21:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

List of people who should be independantly interviewed: Chee soo's wife and Daughter His top 3 students on his death: Desmond Murry, Tony swanson, Howard gibbon ....Top Students who left him when he changed the arts in the early years. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 221.226.155.19 (talk • contribs).

I am still uncomfortable. The style has not spread worldwide as suggested and it is controversial. That it exists now is a fact so it deserves its entry, but all the Lee style entries should be amended to say that there is no proof of lineage prior to Chee Soo/Clifford Gibbs and that a number of issues remain:

1.The style is unknown in China. 2.It not mentioned in any reputable Chinese writings or commentaries on Taijiquan. 3.There are no records or, latterly, any pre-1960s photographic and third-party evidence that one might expect to have been generated from within the system and Chinese martial commentators. 4.The style’s theory of Li energy is at variance with traditional Chinese internal martial practice. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Norfolklad (talk • contribs) 5 Oct 2006.

There are links with China, the International Daoist Society which is the school headed by Desmond Murray is a partner with with the Chinese Weihai Wu Shu Association. I should explain why this is relavant. As the a previuos comment has pointed out Murray was one of Chee soo's top three students (some would say his top student). When Chee Soo died the school split three ways and Murray school is probably the largest, with groups in UK, Germany and France. Since I left the school about 6 years ago the school has undergone rebranding now calling itself Weihai Lishi Quanfa/International Daoist Society/The College of Chinese Physical Culture. Hence its current lack of mention in this page.
History pre-1930's is sketchy. In Chee Soo's books he give a brief mention of its origins, apparently (but verifibly) the style was orignial created by Ho-Hsieh Lee around 1,000BC. The style was very much an internal family system (i.e. not taught to outsiders) which might explain its lack of recognition through the main tai-chi community. The style seems to be specific to the village of Wei Hei Wei a fishing village 200 miles east of Beijing.
Yes there is debates as to whether this is a tai-chi style. It does have a form similar to other tai chi styles, but it also has a a lot more besides so may be closer to Traditional Wushu. I know there has been debates in the UK as to whether it classes as a tai-chi style and prationers don't see eye to eye with the main UK Tai-chi bodies and are not members. The Frech group is a member of the French tai-chi body[1].
There might be a case for renaming the page to Lee Family System which would de-emphesis it as a tai-chi style and more accuratly represent the other aspects. --Salix alba (talk) 11:37, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
At [2] theres a brief discussion of lineage Li Style had the characteristics of the small frame Wu Style, but also some similarities with the medium frame Wu Style. --Salix alba (talk) 13:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I can say that the group does exist and is relatively well known now, at least. They aren't a large group and have most of their followers in Europe, but history issues notwithstanding I had heard of them before I came to Wikipedia, FWIW. --Fire Star 火星 14:14, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] rename to Lee Family System

I've now merged in K'ai Men. Now that this page reflects more than just the tai chi aspects, it may be appropriate to rename it to one of Lee Family System, Lee family system. --Salix alba (talk) 15:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

i agreewith this.the lee system is more than just tai chi

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