Talk:Legal tender

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).


This article is part of the WikiProject Numismatics, which is an attempt to facilitate the categorization and creation of accurate and formal Numismatism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate please visit the project page, where you can join and see a list of open tasks to help with.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.


some euro dollar bearing the word "not legal tender" ,please explain.

where did you see euro coins/banknotes bearing it? Gugganij 10:58, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Legal tender laws were originally known as "Forced Tender". Googling for "forced tender" reveals this.

Something about "legal tender" previously being called "forced tender" should be included in the main text.

Octothorn 08:27, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Legal tender vs "bankability"

As well as legal tender, there is the concept of whether or not a bank is required to accept certain money for deposits - I'm not sure what the word(s) for this are. For example, it is my understanding that Scottish banknotes, while not being legal tender in England, must be accepted by English banks. Is this right? If so, should the article mention the distinction? EdDavies 20:54, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] US dollars used in Canada

A previous version said that a significant amount of business in Canada is transacted in US dollars. This doesn't jibe with my experience (living in Alberta, very close to the US border, for 40 years). I've seen US dollar investment accounts at the banks, service industries accepting US dollars at a posted exchange rate (less often now), and nothing else. I've never seen Canadian individuals or corporations choosing US dollars for transactions unless they have some US tie. I changed the expression "significant amount of business" to "some business".


[edit] Legal tender in Scotland

There is a concept of legal tender in Scotland. When they existed, Bank of England £1 notes were legal tender. The Scottish Parliament says [1]

Under this narrow legal definition Scottish banknotes have never, even in Scotland, except for two very short periods during the two World Wars, been legal tender. Bank of England banknotes are also not legal tender in Scotland under this definition. Only coins from the Royal Mint are legal tender in Scotland and even these are subject to limitations, e.g. £1 worth of 1pcoins is legal tender but £1.01 is not. £1 and £2 coins are legal tender in Scotland to unlimited amounts. --Henrygb 09:18, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Ah, yes. You're right. I've misunderstood my sources; it is not that legal tender does not exist at all, it is just that reasonable settlements must be accepted as well. I've altered the article to reflect this.

[edit] Legal tender in India

Is the Indian rupee legal tender alongside the national currencies (which are pegged to the rupee) in both Nepal and Bhutan? Just checking. Man vyi 11:06, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

The Indian rupee is also legal tender in Bhutan. I don't think it is in Nepal, but it may be exepted as legal tender. Zntrip 00:52, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
I have no idea on the status of the Indian rupee anywhere. However you need to be clear about the meaning of legal tender as described in this article. It has a specific meaning. The fact that a currency may be widely or universally accepted doesn't necessarily mean it's legal tender since it has a specific meaning related to the laws of the country. The situation in Scotland is a good example where there is NO legal tender. Nil Einne 21:08, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Legal tender in the United States

the article quotes federal law ("...shall be legal-tender for all debts, public and private..."), then goes on to say that "In this regard legal tender laws do not pertain to voluntary transactions." that doesn't square. can anybody explain these opposing statements? thanks. SaltyPig 01:32, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

IANAL, but... I think the classic example is a restaurant.
1) You go into McDonalds, give your order, they say "that's ten dollars", you try to pay in cash and they don't accept it.
2) You go into a slightly more upscale joint, eat your meal, they say "that's a hundred dollaes", you try to pay in cash and they don't accept it.
In case 1) you haven't made the transaction, so there is no "debt" - if you walked away you wouldn't have recieived any food, so you don't owe them anything. In this case, they can refuse the money because there isn't this debt. However, in case 2), you have eaten their food already - you blatantly owe them money, and it was a legitimately created debt. They're obliged to take your money.
This interpretation may be flawed - I'm not experienced in American law - but I think it gets the gist across. The key is that there has to be a debt, and in a lot of cases (like trying to buy things from people) it's very hard to create a debt - buying something, where they retain ownership until paid, is a case where you're never "indebted" to the seller. On the other hand, "voluntary transactions" is probably a confusing way to phrase it. Does that help? Shimgray 02:00, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
thanks. i don't necessarily agree that example 1 isn't a debt (depending on timing and other issues), and i personally consider a debt to occur on both sides when an agreement is made (one for goods/service, the other for currency), but i realize american law is quite arbitrary and, supposedly, "settled". ha! thanks for your explanation. i modified the section a bit, but i think ultimately it'll never square, and that most discussions of it step around the problem (definition of debt) a little too obviously. SaltyPig 02:19, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
The matter of when a debt is created is a pretty complex one, and I suspect you need a first-year civil law course to understand it, but the restaurant example is as good a one as I can come up with. Perhaps the difference between a bus and a taxi? No debt is incurred climbing on a bus and trying to pay the driver; however, a debt is incurred by riding in a taxi and then trying to pay the driver. If memory serves, it's one of the key differences between Scottish and English law; in Scotland an offer to sell is binding, and in England it's not; in the one case asking to buy is incurring a debt, the other not. I believe the US generally holds the latter approach, though you never know what weird legal exceptions exist in random states. Shimgray 02:53, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
i think you misunderstand me; i'm not faulting your examples, but rather the pitiful state of "law" in the united states (and other places, of course). BTW, first-year law courses only teach one to regurgitate, not understand — and the pattern continues far beyond law school for most "lawyers". SaltyPig 04:43, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] precise equivalent values

precise equivalent values= is precise the right word here?--Gbleem 20:00, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] debt, gift

Culled:

"... the restaurant is not in debt, it has been given a gift."

No. The restaurant was first in credit. A large bank note has been tendered for payment of the customer's debt. No gift has occurred and the restaurant does now owe the change, it is not a gift, even if the change cannot be paid now. Paul Beardsell 20:22, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Change

I've been searching but cannot find any information about the following scenario, which I'll illustrate with an example. Suppose you receive a traffic ticket and thus are indebted to the county for $55. You show up to court with a $100 bill. The court says you must bring exact change so won't take payment in the form of a $100 bill. If the fine were $100, they'd be happy to take it. So the issue is not whether they will take the large bill, but whether they have to be able to provide change. What law, if any, covers this scenario?

Several posibilities. Firstly the court may be breaking the law. Secondly many legal tender laws have limits on the ways and means of payment. For instance in many juristictions you can't use an excessive number of small denomination coins to pay a large debt. There is a restriction on how many small coins can be used. See the following link as an example: [2] Terjepetersen 12:02, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Exact Change Only/Accepting only Certain Denominations

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.html has the following Q&A: "Question: I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

Answer: The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy." --64.113.81.179 11:52, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Northern Ireland?

The UK section seems to have a paragraph missing: legal tender in Northern Ireland. The situation for NI is clearly similar to Scotland (except that both Northern Irish AND Scottish banknotes are in common circulation, in addition to Bank of England notes). Can someone fill in the legal details? Mtford 19:40, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../l/e/g/Talk%7ELegal_tender_aa2c.html"