Talk:La Jolla, San Diego, California

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Contents

[edit] Archives

Archive 1 Prior to August 17.

[edit] References to La Jolla.

These are counts from google.

Results 1 - 10 of about 49,200 for "city of la jolla".
Results 1 - 10 of about 28,900 for "village of la jolla"
Results 1 - 10 of about 181,000 for "the village" "la jolla"
Results 1 - 10 of about 2,420 for "town of la jolla"
Results 1 - 10 of about 32,300 for "downtown la jolla"

--Serge 08:11, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Serge: Your search results add up to 112,820.

Results 1 - 50 of about 28,300,000 for "La Jolla"

112,820/28,300,000 = 0.4%

So the answer from Google is that La Jolla is extremely rarely referred to as the city, town, or village of La Jolla, or referenced as "downtown La Jolla". BlankVerse 08:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Another thing worth keeping in mind about Google results -- if you actually look at the results for "city of la jolla", many of the pages are automatically generated. That is, sites which care little or nothing for accuracy, but are merely tried to increase Internet traffic to their site put out formulaic pages, often based on Census data, with little regard for what the status of the place actually is. older ≠ wiser 13:00, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Right, and bogus sites probably account for a larger percentage of the "La Jolla" hits than the "city of la jolla", "village of la jolla", or "downtown la jolla" hits.--Serge 15:09, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neighborhoods?

Some of that listing looks like it is just what real estate agents may call different areas, and probably varies from realtor to realtor. Heck, I lived in the area and never heard anyone describe it as Upper and Lower Hermosa. Where the heck is Windansea, which is not only a famous beach break, but is also a small recognizable community with a retail establishments? BlankVerse 07:33, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

The same neighborhood designations are used by all realtors in La Jolla. These are the ones used in the weekly open house listings in the La Jolla Light and La Jolla Village News. I cited two realtors who display maps with the same neighborhood designations and boundaries. Windnsea Beach is the name of the beach, not the neighborhood, which is called the Beach Barber Tract. Some locals do refer to the neighborhood near Windnsea Beach as Windnsea, but there's no official or formal designation of it as such, so far as I know. --Serge 08:09, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Nobody but real estate agents call it the Beach-Barber Tract. There is certainly no official or formal recognization of that name by the city of San Diego. And BTW, no locals calls Windansea Wind 'n Sea Beach. I don't know where you are getting your information, but ALL the locals call the residences and businesses in the Windnsea area by Windansea. That's from someone who used to live there. BlankVerse 01:43, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Straw Poll

Due to the recent turmoil on community pages, a large community straw poll is being conducted. Wikipedia:Communities strawpoll is now open for voting. Despite resolutions made on this page, many others are facing turmoil similar to what this page is, or once did face. In an effor to solve the issue, I invite all Wikipedians to vote there by September 18th on this page following the procedures and ballot instuctions explained there. Thank You. Ericsaindon2 06:03, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Independent La Jolla/Secession

Will, I just reverted your change to say that ILJ wants to secede only a portion of La Jolla. If you look at the ILJ map, you will see all of La Jolla is included in the secesion proposal. This is because all residences within La Jolla use 92037. UCSD has its own zip code, but it's within La Jolla, and within the secession proposed area. Other La Jolla zip codes, like 92038, are for PO boxes, PO boxes that are in the La Jolla post office, which is also within La Jolla and the 92037 geographical area. --Serge 00:28, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Note that language used to describe the area on the ILJ website:

The approximately 13 square-mile area stretches from Del Mar North, East past Interstate 5 (this includes all of UCSD and a small portion east of I-5 that is currently already in the zip code 92037), and south to Turquoise Street, which would form the southern border between La Jolla and the Pacific Beach[1].

And compare it to the language used in the La Jolla article:

La Jolla borders Pacific Beach to the south and extends north to Torrey Pines State Reserve and Del Mar, California. Along the way it encompasses neighborhoods[1] like Bird Rock, Windansea, The Village of La Jolla (including "downtown La Jolla"), La Jolla Shores, La Jolla Farms, Torrey Pines, Mount Soledad and La Jolla Village (including La Jolla Village Square). Interstate 5 forms La Jolla's man-made border to the east, with the minor exception of some University of California, San Diego and commercial property east of I-5 and north of La Jolla Village Drive also considered by those who live and work there to be part of La Jolla.

It's the same area, we just describe it in greater detail. --Serge 00:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

So are you saying that La Jolla is co-terminous with 92037? -Will Beback 00:39, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
For all practical purposes, yes. The only significant exception might be the UCSD campus, which is surrounded by 92037 addresses, but itself uses 92093. But the campus is part of the area that ILJ proposes to secede. But the main point is that there is no area that is considered to be part of La Jolla that is not included in the ILJ plan, as far as I can tell from their maps and textual descriptions. --Serge 01:43, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
So La Jolla is co-terminous with 92037, and 92093 which lies within it. Is that correct? Where does that leave 92092? The USPS doesn't mark it as a P.O. box ZIP code. Also, in our own article we should avoid saying what people think unless we have some source for it. -Will Beback 01:53, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Frankly, I don't know exactly where 92092 is. I doubt the ILJ people know either. Most people think all of LJ is 92037. I found out about 92092 doing research for this article. Anyway, do you think anything in our article says something about what people think without having a source for it? --Serge 06:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
...considered by those who live and work there to be part of La Jolla. How do we know that these folks consider a particular sliver of land to to part of the neighborhood? -Will Beback 21:05, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

I'm taking the liberty of placing these comments at the top, as there's an awdul lot of discussion to wade through otherwise. Firstly, is there authority for the assertion that I-5 is the eastern boundary? Are Costa Verde, UTC, Renaissance, the hi-tech business park, the epsicopal church, ... not in LJ? Secondly, isn't there are rather good modern art gallery downtown which needs a mention? Richard Pinch 06:56, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

And I'm taking the liberty of moving your comments to the bottom, which is where new stuff is normally added...
  • The mailing addresses of the areas you mention above are San Diego, not La Jolla.
  • The City neighborhood map lists that section as University City, not La Jolla (or Torrey Pines or La Jolla Village which are generally considered to be neighborhoods within the community of La Jolla).
  • The realtor maps don't consider those 'hoods east of I-5 to be La Jolla.
  • Here's a typical La Jolla map: [2]
  • There are city "Community of La Jolla" signs that designate the border described in the article.
  • Yes, the museum of modern art should be mentioned.
--Serge 07:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
If you add something about the art museum, should should definately cover the controversy over the name change. BlankVerse 08:45, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, at least it got noticed ... within half an hour too! So what is this controversy? Richard Pinch 19:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

There is a general naming convention in Wikipedia that the article title is used to specify the most common name used to reference the subject of a given article (e.g., the article about Madonna is titled Madonna, not her full name). When names "collide" (same common name is used to reference more than one subject), then the convention is to "disambiguate" ("dab") with a parenthetic remark. For example, the word "shock" is used in mechanics and is the name of a movie (among other uses), so we have these disambiguated titles:

Also, this disambiguation method is known by the software. So if in an article about cars one refers to shocks like this: [[shock (mechanics)|]]s, then it will appear to the reader without the parenthetic remark, like this: shocks.

But, the main point is that disambiguation is normally not done unless there is a "collision".

Now, with cities and communites, a contrary convention has developed:

  • the title does not specify the most common name used to reference the city or community
  • names are disambiguated with commas instead of parenthetic remarks (the Wiki software does not recognize this form of disambiguation)
  • names are "predisambiguated"

It is because of that convention that the title of this article is La Jolla, San Diego, California, and not simply La Jolla, even though the most common name used to reference this community is, simply, La Jolla, and there are no "collisions" for that name. The controversy is about whether this special convention for cities and communities is a good thing for Wikipedia. --Serge 19:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Naming conventions are about more than disambiguation, as you well know. We din't need to disambiguate "Spruce Goose". Nonetheless we follow the naming convnetion for military aricraft and call it the Hughes H-4 Hercules. Naming conventions help to keep consistent names of articles on a topic. -Will Beback 21:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
In any case, that's probably not the controversy that Blankverse meant:
  • In the early 1970s, the name changed to the La Jolla Museum of Contemporary Art, focusing the purview on the period from 1950 to the present. The Museum has long held a reputation for bold, prescient exhibitions and collecting practices and the oceanfront site became a mecca for artists and art aficionados from around California, the nation, and beyond. In 1990, acknowledging the larger geographic context and the population base of nearly 3 million in San Diego County, the name changed to the Museum of Contemporary Art San Diego, and in 1993, a branch facility opened downtown, further embracing the region. MCASD is fiscally sound, with a permanent endowment fund of over $40 million, and an annual operating budget of approximately $6 million. Annual support comes from a balanced mix of individuals, corporations, foundations, government agencies, and interest earned from the endowment
From Museum of Contemporary Art San Diego. -Will Beback 21:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Footnotes and References

I reverted (again) edits by anonymous user 216.103.8.71 (talk). The Reference tag and section at the end of the article is needed or footnotes scattered throughout the article will not do anything. Please do not remove the REFERENCE section and related tag

For more information on how the REFERENCE and REF tags work, see Wikipedia:FootnotesOrayzio 21:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Windansea Article Merge Help Needed

This is a call out to anyone familiar with "Windansea" to help with a merge request. There are 3 articles about Windansea (Windansea, Windansea Beach, and Windansea, California) and I have proposed that all three articles be merged into a single Windansea Beach article, with the remaining two articles changed into redirects. Unfortunately, I'm not really familiar with Windansea and I don't know if there is a Windansea neighborhood that is separate from Windansea Beach. Also, while the text of all 3 articles are mostly the same, there are enough differences that would require an expert on Windansea to figure out what is correct and what is not. Can anyone help? Orayzio 23:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Advertisement/Travel Brochure-like Sections

I added the {{advert}} tag because several new sections have been added that read more like travel or Realtor brochures than an encyclopedic article. I tried to clean this up, but I'm thinking that some of this stuff just needs to be removed (see WP:NOT). I saw some article somewhere that included a link specifically to WikiTravel, but I don't know the syntax to add such a link.

I will say, though, that a lot of this new information is very nice for the article. I think it just needs to be presented in a more encyclopedic manner. - Orayzio 01:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

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