Talk:L'Arc~en~Ciel

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.	Biography Portal
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article. [FAQ]
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed biographical guide to musicians and musical groups on Wikipedia.

For a September-November 2005 move debate over this page see Talk:L'Arc~en~Ciel/Move Discussion Archive

Contents 1 Capitalization Soapbox 2 Lowercase 3 D'arc~en~ciel 4 Structure 5 Recent messing about 6 AWAKE listing 7 capitalization 8 Big changes and little changes 9 Important Titles Note for ALL artists (please copy this on other asian artist talk pages) 10 official matters etc...

[edit] Capitalization Soapbox

Unless an official rep of L'Arc~en~Ciel decides to poke his head in here (and I'm not sure why he'd want to) this uppercase/lowercase junk is just fan chatter. Personally, I doubt any of the band members give a flying monkey tail whether you capitalize the first letters of their names or not. I understand that some artists have legitimate reasons (i.e. hide of X Japan), but as Laruku has never come forward with a specific request that their names be lowercase, I don't see why we should have a petty edit war over it.

Hyde went from hyde to HYDE to Hyde, but if you're really a fan, I'd say you should know him well enough anyway to realize that he's not going to throw a hissy fit over a letter or two. If you'd really like to spend your time changing letters back and forth, be my guest. But if you'd rather have something more productive to do with your time, there are plenty of dead links in this article. I suggest making a P'Unk~en~Ciel page, as that's a serious gap. Or if you're obsessed with AWAKE, add to that pathetically short page. Those pages often turn out to be personal projects and for those control freaks and perfectionists among us, are seldom touched by other editors. Anything, ANYTHING, has to be more worthy of your time than a capital letter or two.

Technically, while they're part of L'arc, the members' names are lowercase. HYDE is the guy's solo project, and STAY AWAY is supposed to be cap-locked. But for the newbies to Laruku, which is the audience that this page will potentially benefit the most, STAY AWAY is the same as Stay Away, in all its choreographed schoolboy glory. But what'll confuse them is the sudden reference to P'Unk, tossed in and left as a brief allusion, or D'Arc, or whatever other little things that merit a little more concern and dedication.

You know, there are only six of William Shakespeare's signatures in existence, and in each of them, his name is spelled differently. Here we are debating over capitalization of tetsu or Tetsu or Ken or ken, and who knows if we're even spelling Shakespeare's name right?

So concluding my rant of the day, it'd be great if we'd all take a step back. For a second there, we couldn't see the forest for the trees. Remember the whole "a rose by any other name," speech by whatshisname, that one writer, Shakespeare? sHacKesPear?

Phemeral 03:58, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lowercase

Note to editors of this page: Laruku band members use all-lowercase letters for their names. Don't ask me why, they just do. (For verification see ja: entry or official web site.) Please don't alter the case of their names anymore; it is correct the way it is.

Thank you! RADICALBENDER★ 15:19, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

But are the ~ between the words instead of the normal hyphens also part of what makes this group so very special? --Wetman 01:54, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

What about making them italics so that we know they are proper names?

Japanese dosn't have capitals

[edit] D'arc~en~ciel

I'm not a big fan of L'Arc~en~Ciel, but I've heard some things about D'Arc~en~Ciel... maybe something could be added to the article regarding that? I'm still not very clear on what exactly it is/was. - Gemtiger 02:40, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• Added to article - I'm new to Wiki, so apologies for any mistakes. While sakura was still drummer, D'Arc~en~Ciel was the equivalent of P'Unk~en~Ciel.

• Are they called 'D'Ark~en~Ciel' or D'Arc~en~Ciel? The wiki has D'Ark~en~Ciel but on here they discussed as D'Arc~en~Ciel. D'Arc~en~Ciel has more listeners over at last.fm than D'Ark~en~Ciel but I can't find any credible sources that answer this question. --bmxgamer 23:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Structure

I am going to change the way the information is diposed a bit so that it is more in comform to the Wikipedia standard. If anyone has any objection with the changes, feel free to discuss. --Sn0wflake 17:33, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• Also going to add a picture and an article for Smile. --Sn0wflake 17:38, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Recent messing about

typography as used on album covers, etc., is very often fancy; we don't have to (and usually shouldn't) follow that. Relatedly, many bands use all capitals for their names, or for album titles (just as do books, newspapers, magazines, etc.). In a Wikipedia article, however, we should stick to normal typography unless there's very good reason not to. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:22, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

To Mel Etitis: Sorry if I'm messing up "all your work," but just as you were complaining about my waltzing in (I've been trying to keep this article up to date for some time before you "waltzed in"), look at the Singles section and tell me if they're up to date. They end at 1998 and the bullets are screwed! Hardly an improvement. And then the Video section, gone, that I put at least 25 minutes of work sitting and transferring all the info to the page. Just because you want to change a few things doesn't mean you need to totally kick out someone else's work, it's very rude and frustrating, especially when you then say how I was "waltzing in" when actually that was you. I find that very offensive. I'm going to revert it back and try to look for some of the things you're concerned about and try to make it work, but stop ruining the article, please. PS: About the not fixing double redirects, etc. I have moved articles before (like this article from its previous very incorrect spelling [something like L'arc En Ciel or something bad]) and I fixed all the double redirects. Just this time I happened to be at a bad moment to perform those checks and I just wanted to get the article back into readable shape. --XGSRPG 23:26, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

I apologise for referring to youas waltzing in; that was irritation, and I should have stamped on it. I'm still feeling irritated, though. Having said that you accepted the removal of tildes in palce of hyphens, you've actually replaced all the tildes; you've also undone all my attempts to wikify things like the misuse of italics for individual song titles (they should be in inverted commas). I've reverted to my version, but kept in the new material (but tidied and wikified) that you added to the discography. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:33, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

My goal wasn't to get rid of your fixes but to return all the information to a decent state (the revision you kept reverting to didn't list any singles past 1998! and not to mention the video section was gone). Sorry for the misunderstanding. --XGSRPG 15:39, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I've just made (again) corrections to typography; it wasn't always easy, as the peculiar misuse of hyphens and capitalisation sometimes obscures which part is title, which translation, and which description. To show willing, I did it by hand (all over again) so as not to disturb other parts of your edit — but I'm not prepared to do that again. From now on, if other edits are mixed in with a change back to silly random and obscurantist typography, I'll just revert the whole thing. Flesh and blood can only take so much. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:47, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm not going to keep reverting it back and forth because that will get us nowhere, but the capitalizations need to be kept, along with the ~s. Look at almost every single other Wikipedia entry for the other languages: they all use ~. And for the ~s in the song titles, I don't think someone accidentally typed ~ instead of - on the keyboard. How important it is, that's up for dispute, but you can't argue that it's not the title of the song. It doesn't matter what language Wiki this is either, the titles to the songs weren't written to conform to English standards, so it would hardly be a "misuse." Also, it's not like the capitalization they use is erratic, it usually follows several patterns: all caps, no caps, standard (first letter of most words), or just the first letter in the title. It's not like there are songs like LoVE flIeZ or anything. I don't know how much this analogy works, but look at the Black Eyed Peas song "Don't Phunk With My Heart." Funk is spelled wrong. Do you see people trying to fix it? I agree that it may be confusing but that doesn't mean the truth needs to be altered. Rather, a note could be given about this (since it's not usual for American artists). Also, I was wondering if you had any good ideas about the Singles section. It doesn't give extraneous info, but the way it's presented is very messy (the song titles, B-sides, romaji, AND sales are on one line!). So if you have any ideas (anyone) please say them! --XGSRPG 19:11, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I definitely agree with XGSRPG. To begin with, the name of the band IS L'Arc~en~Ciel, with the ~. It's inconceivable to change it! Also, the capitalizations are very important in Japanese music, so we should keep them as they are. The members are hyde, tetsu, ken and yukihiro. The albums are called DUNE (not Dune) and heavenly (not Heavenly). It's officialy that way and it is a part of the identity of the band. I don't see a reason why we should change that! If we want to be accurate and truthful we need to put things as they really are. Maybe a note could be made to explain to people that aren't familiar with this, as XGSRPG explained. Mel Etitis, I don't see why you have to impose your formatting... You didn't correct anything, as things weren't wrong. What's wrong is altering the official spelling and capitalization of the band's name, members, discography and songs, when they are even registered and trademarked that way. --Tetsu69

[edit] AWAKE listing

I have removed AWAKE's track listing, as they are already listed on a seperate paged hyperlinked on the article. Royal Crown 20:41, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] capitalization

It's nice that the tilde (~) debate is finally resolved, but can someone who actually *owns* them go through and double-check (and fix) the capitalization for singles, once and for all? 204.218.240.83 15:20, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't entirely understand what you mean. Do you mean making sure that all words are capitalized, except for the 'en'? I've slowly been fixing them all and creating the proper redirects, it's just been taking some time. However, don't be afraid to do the work yourself and help me out. --^demon 18:20, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Like NatsukiGirl noted below, I mean double-checking titles against the official releases; "winter fall", as it says on the single itself, versus "WINTER FALL", for example. I'm keeping my edits to maintenance (fixing the constant hyde/Hyde/HYDE etc. battle), since I don't own the entire discography. 82.48.142.117 18:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Big changes and little changes

So far, I've added little bits here and there. A lot of it has just been writing style, to make the article sound more mature, and clarifying the confusing bits.

I was particularly surprised that the Awake section didn't mention the tour at all, not even a few words to indicate that it existed. In fact, the tour was only referenced in a line in the Asia Live section. So I added some info about that and my own theory about Hyde's costumes. If you disagree, add your own. That's just the one I feel most plausible. (I highly doubt that Hyde is showing support for Nazism.)

Also, the P'Unk~en~Ciel link goes nowhere. I'm planning on fixing that, unless someone else wants to step up? It's only mentioned in passing and I'm sure would be confusing to a new fan who turned to this page for help.

All I can say is that Laruku deserves a much better page from their fans. I suppose I'll be spending a lot of time on this page in the future.

--Phemeral 01:49, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking of compiling the songs that were featured in the various anime and movies into a list, instead of mentioning them whenever it fits to the timeline. Or perhaps (I suppose this is better) to write the title of the anime/movie/ad in brackets behind the song title in the singles list. I will then remove any mentions of theme songs from the existing paragraphs, unless it is written with a significant purpose. Anyone disagrees with me on this?

I will start with my second suggestion, do let me know which is better, or if I should just leave it as of current (which IMO looks pretty messy to me). minkyparfait 05:34, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Important Titles Note for ALL artists (please copy this on other asian artist talk pages)

I must note something very important for future editors of this page (also try to observe this for any non English speaking band or author... etc): If you see a single, album, dvd, concert, or book title that contains poor grammar, please consider that even though the English spelling or grammar may be incorrect, that it still may actually be the official title. If someone is searching for the single, and cannot find it the official way... then what good is wiki? Please do not tamper with titles unless you have found hard evidence that the title has been written incorrectly from the official spelling. also note, some OFFICIAL japanese titles are titled in all CAPS (or with stars and hearts or other "non-letter/number characters) this is NOT a mistake, please leave them like this. All one must do is observe the picture or written info of the single/album/book on the official page which is linked in the article at the bottom. Please help keep wikipedia encyclopedic and correct! Thank you. -- NatsukiGirl\^talk 04:14, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, can you provide arguments on why should we break the convention? why not putting redirects in the all uppercase titles? The article text could use uppercase, but I don't see compelling arguments for changing the convention of the title. Also, for the "people wil lsearch for the upper case title", well, that's what the redirects solve. So far I haven't seen a discussion (perhaps you can point it to me) and since there's no consensus yet, I suggest not to change albums titles to uppercase (as in AROUND THE WORLD from the existing titles). -- ( drini's page ☎ ) 04:16, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] official matters etc...

As we all know, hyde's name was never officially announced to be Hideto Takarai. As much as it could be 90% correct, it still remains as a fan guess. Changing that part a tad bit.

minkyparfait 06:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)