Talk:Kurdistan/Archive 4

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Sectionising

I've recently removed a lot of information out of some of the sections of this article. Instead of cluttering up this article, major edits should be made to the sub-articles and pointers from here to there given with a brief summary. If anyone disagrees feel free to revert and discuss here. - FrancisTyers 10:54, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I support this action --Cool CatTalk|@ 10:58, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
The article looks much better now. Heja Helweda 18:17, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Anon

Some anon was casuing havoc on the talk page, I tried to restore the orignal form an keep the anons comments. --Cool CatTalk|@ 08:28, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

The misunderstanding in the treaty of Sevres

In the article of Kurdistan ,it is written as :" The Treaty of Sèvres divided the former Ottoman Empire between the United Kingdom, Turkey, and others. " But, Turkey did not accept instead reject the treaty of Sèvres; therefore , Turkey was not in an agreement with UK and others in sharing the area.Turkey was defending the area which had been formerly determined as "the area in the Misakı milli bounderies" Also , it is written in the "The Treaty of Sèvres" article that The Republic of Turkey rejected this treaty:"The national government in Ankara rejected the terms of the treaty..." --Selinnn 21:58, 19 December 2005 (UTC)§ĿŃ

I've added rejection of Serves. It is more clear now, I think. 81.213.202.47 23:11, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

A dozen maps of Kurdistan

Most of the maps in the link: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/kurdistan-maps.htm are not correct. The ones that show the distrubution of the population are OK (I don't know wheather they are true but it is OK to show such a map, actually there are such maps in the article)

There are maps in that link that show distinct borders as if Kurdistan is a separate country, they are misleading the reader. That link shall be removed. 85.99.221.232 10:45, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

terrorist group called Kurdish Workers’ Party

user Khoikhoi has removed "terrorist group" words in front of kurdish workers party claiming that it has a POV. See article PKK, it is accepted as a terrorist group. Do hava a problem with that? What is your source of "PKK not being a terrorist group"? If you have a source how do you grant that your source does not have POV? Or do you just revert edits of anonmyous users whatever they are? 85.99.221.232 11:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, it does have a POV, as you can see from the Kurdistan Workers Party page which has been in dispute for a number of months. I think he is right to remove it. I think militant group is a fairly good alternative. A couple of things that came up at the PKK page; 1. The EU and US only labelled the PKK group as terrorist recently, e.g. the 90's so was it terrorist before then? 2. Why did the US/EU label the PKK group as terrorist, what actions were it that changed in the 90's to label them terrorist? Note that Northern Ireland does not explicitly label the IRA as a terrorist group even though most countries that call the PKK terrorist also call the IRA terrorist. - FrancisTyers 12:34, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
When we talk about POV we mean that "what we write must be pure facts", right? So why do we need someone to say that PKK is a terrorist group? Isn't that a POV? We have the facts in hand right? They are still killing people, you know? Just turn on the TV. Some countries may not label it as a terrorist group, couse maybe they are supporting it, or it is in favor of them. Say that we have something on the table and we are trying to find out what it is. Do you ask people around to find what it is, or do you look at it to find out what it is?
Do you agree that PKK is killing people? Do you agree that they are killing even the civilians? Do you agree that they are doing this for political gain? Now look at this >terrorist and tell me what PKK is. 85.100.154.135 21:14, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't know, maybe someone else can explain it to you. You can start by reading the talk page archives of this page, then try the archives of Kurdistan Workers Party, then perhaps take a look at the talk page of Kurdish people. I recommend reading Northern Ireland and Provisional IRA as well for some good articles covering a "terrorist" group. If you still don't understand, i.e. haven't found the answers to your questions in those pages, then perhaps I can find time to explain to you. - FrancisTyers 22:06, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
They were not questions actually. They were just some facts stated in question form. Let's not go offtopic. What I say is, PKK is killing people, they are killing civilians, they are doing this for political gain. If nobody has NPOV sources stating otherwise, I'll add "terrorist group" words back in there. 85.100.154.135 22:43, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
This is a very contentious issue. I would strongly recommend that you to read the relevant talk pages before embarking on such a controversial addition. - FrancisTyers 00:10, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I've searched through the archieved pages but did not come up to an objection to this. I don't think this will be an issue. And user Khoikhoi has not yet made an explanation to his edit, but I'll wait a little more if anybody has to say anything on this. 85.100.154.135 01:38, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Why do I need to make an explanation? Calling a group "terrorists" is clearly POV. --Khoikhoi 01:56, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
You made me laugh on that. So you say that if we are to be objective there is no such thing as terrorism in the world? So what shall we call the people who crash a plane to a building full of people? What shall we call a man exploding himself in public? What shall we call people who are stopping cars and busses on a intercity road and kill all the passangers and rub them? Terrorism has a distinct definition, if you don't know what it is don't edit it, let the ones knowing the subject edit. 85.99.221.232 07:07, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Maybe you find this a laughing matter, I don't. I find it hard to believe you've read all the archives and found no objections. I will search them myself later. - FrancisTyers 09:01, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I cannot say anything to someone who claims "no one can be identified as terrorist", all I can do is to laugh at this. And I'd be very thankful if you looked at the archives and present us the relevant objections to this matter. And it is very interesting that somebody can change the article about this very contentious issue, nothing happens. But reverting it becomes a problem. I guess I've wasted enough time for this and will be adding that back soon. Still no sound objections. 85.99.221.232 11:42, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Just stay away from editing Wikipedia. That's all I have to say. --Khoikhoi 00:10, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Khoikhoi, please understand that this issue is a sensitive one, especially to a turkish citizen, and don't suggest someone to "shut up and leave wikipedia alone" if they are not vandalizing or anything but questioning what you did.. at least not before making a proper explaination. and you didnt. yes, you have to explain, however simple it is. i am not against your edit, but i am against your "if you dont understand my way, then piss off, cause i'm right and you are wrong" attitude, which i believe is not wikipedia.. would it take too much to explain?.. now, to my friend from turkey (who contributes with an ip address) there is no doubt what pkk is, of course, yet adding "terrorist group" in front whenever we use PKK doesnt do any well either. we are just promoting them. a link to pkk page should be sufficient enough. there are kurds who dont support pkk, and putting 'terrorist' here would be an insult to them. hudd 06:06, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Why would anyone be insulted when we put "terrorist group" in front of the name of a terrorist organization? I know most Kurds don't support PKK. Why would they be insulted by calling PKK a terrorist group? I don't see a reason. Even the supporters of PKK shall not be insulted with this. They are aware of what they are doing, they do not deny it. PKK is a terrorist organization, this is a fact so it is good to put in Wikipedia. 85.100.155.17 18:05, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
And you, made me laugh again :D. Don't be afraid of the truth. And this is all I have to say to you. 85.100.155.17 18:05, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
When we talk about POV we mean that "what we write must be pure facts", right?
No. Not all statements of fact are neutral. I could factually state, "Such-and-such is a faggot" on the article of a gay man, or "Such-and-such is a kike" on the article of a Jew—factually in a sense that the denotation of the word faggot is a gay man and the denotation of the word kike is a Jew. But both words are incredibly offensive, so adding such a sentence to an article would obviously violate WP:NPOV, despite being factually accurate in a particular sense. The case of the word terrorist is much less blatant, but it's the same idea: it's an inflammatory term, and virtually no one would agree to be labelled as a terrorist. We should strive to use words that do not convey a particular point of view. —Caesura(t) 12:19, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
The term terrorist is not like the term faggot. It's not slang or anything rude. It's more like the term "gay". It's more like an official term so that countries use that world when talking about it. You wouldn't hear a statesman calling gays faggot. If you call someone gay and he feels being insulted it's either he is not gay or he is pretending that he is not. Anyways I guess here is not the place to discuss this, as someone below there pointed out that it is a convention on wikipedia. 85.102.63.85 23:01, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

The unofficial Kurdish flag

It is not flown in Turkey. Sources please or I'll edit that part. 85.100.155.17 18:29, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I've editted it to show that it isn't flown and is actually banned. - FrancisTyers 18:38, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Can you please cite a source for that? I cannot find one myself. 85.96.232.32 19:40, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Click on the link. - FrancisTyers 19:50, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, I was expecting an official source actually. I'm not a one who believes everything on the internet, especially if the source is being a puppet of an terrorist organization. And below is extracted from that source under the heading Kurdish Delight where they write about their trip to kurdish parts of Turkey (as if no other lives there, yeah, seperatism at its best!). So which one is true?
"There was much traditional dancing and people displayed their red, yellow and green national colours, making endless and enthusiastic peace signs, waving various Kurdish flags and placards of Abdullah Ocalan, the jailed leader of the Kurdish movement. The police were moderate in their behaviour but the military sent their jets screaming noisily overhead several times and helicopters constantly circled the event." levent 08:48, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
FrancisTyers the flag is only legaly flown in KAR, I really think this flag is inaprporate on this article. This article is not about the country Kurdistan right? Or the porposed country. Article should be about the culture of the people etc. It is currently a collection of contraversial events. Which belongs to the sub history article not here, removning those will leave you a sub as this article is poorly writen as you may agree.
Geocultural region must be about "culture" and we have nothing explaining culture. --Cool CatTalk|@ 09:44, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

flag

How come a geographical/cultural region has a flag? 85.99.199.252 00:51, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Please refer to the Kurdish flag for insights on this. El_C 10:30, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
It is not widely used in Turkey as that article states. That is wrong as well. You cannot correct one false with another one. 85.99.199.252 12:20, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
According to the Kurdish Flag article this flag is of a proposed country (which is logical, since flags are for countries). But here we are talking of a geopgraphical region. If Kurdistan is a proposed country this article should be changed to tell so, if Kurdistan is a geopgraphical region, the flag should be removed. levent 18:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


PROBLEMS ON KURDISH ARTICLES

First of all the Kurdish flag is allowed in Iran, but is not sanctioned publicly. Kurds have it in their homes and are allowed to have them. It is certainly not criminal in Iran for Kurds to have the Kurdish flag or symbol as many of my friends do. So edit your statement about it being criminal in Iran. Need I remind you all, that Kurds are ethnic Iranians and have historically enjoyed the greatest liberties in Iran as opposed to the mainstream discrimination Kurds face in Syria, Iraq, and Turkey? It is usually Israeli sources, with increasing American and British help and aid, that intentionally falsely claim that the Kurdish flag (which fly the Pan-Iranian colours as does the unofficial flag of the Azerbaijani people and the flag of Tajikistan) is prohibited in Iran. FLYING THE KURDISH FLAG IN IRAN IS NOT CRIMINAL AS IT IS MENTIONED BY ISRAELI SOURCES.

Furthermore, I go on to read that there was research done that basically proves Kurds and Jews are genetically the same. It seems to me that certain individuals who I can see are Israeli are following the Israeli states policy of editing articles in lines with current events in the Middle East. Kurds are Iranians just as how Russians, Serbs, Poles, and Bulgarians are all Slavic peoples. Israel, the USA, and Britain are trying to create conflict in Iran as was done in the former Yugoslavia by creating problems along ethnic lines. This is called ‘balkanisation.’ The Israelis are doing this covertly through operations in Iraqi Kurdistan.

Propaganda for dividing and conquering people starts with definitions then the manipulation of history. I am an academic in the fields of anthropology and history and an Iranian from a minority group that is neither Persian nor Kurdish. I can tell you that Kurds are definitely ethnic Iranians in all senses from tradition to language, history, culture, identity, and genetics. I am alarmed by the current purging of internet articles that have hidden agendas trying to separate the Iranian identity of Kurds.

As I was told by a Kurdish professor, Mr. Eskandari in Tehran: “Kurds are Iranian and the entity of Iran as a state and nation was founded by the [main] ancestors of the Kurds, the Mede who established Iran as an empire. One problem that has compounded the issue is that people misuse the term Persian and Iranian. Persians are Iranian, but all Iranians, like the Kurds and Ossetians, are not Persians.”

The Mede and other similar Iranian groups are the ancestors of the Kurds, but not the only group, just like how the ancient Persians are the main ancestors of the modern Persians, but not the only ancestors. Ancestors of Persians and Kurds also include Arabs, Mongols, and other Iranian peoples.

I ask all the honest people on this site who wish to enhance knowledge not to take part in this fabrication of fact. There was a time when the Turkish government tried to convince Kurds that they were “Mountain Turks” and now there are powers at play that are either trying to disassociate the Kurds from their Iranian identity and origins or make whole generations of proud young Kurds forget or be unaware of their Iranian ethnicity. This is due to geo-strategic schemes. These forces are trying to victimize a whole group of people from knowing their own proud history and culture which is genuinely Iranian. The covert foreign policy of Israel, Britain, and America comes at the expense of the Kurds and even their history and culture.

“THE ENEMIES OF SCIENCE, THE ARTS, AND KNOWLEDGE ARE THE ENEMIES OF ALL MANKIND!”

Diyako !

We have been talking on this issue. Better you have a look at the discussion page before making changes. Yet no body could represent us a source on pkk not being a terrorist organization. So I'm reverting your "vandalism". Fell free to put your sources and discuss and show us how pkk is not a terrorist organization. 85.99.199.252 12:02, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

The convention on Wikipedia is, generally, to avoid the term terrorist (versus opponents, as State terrorists) except in designated articles. El_C 12:05, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
Where is it written? 85.99.199.252 12:15, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
Not all conventions are written down in a convenient place. There's no magic list of prejudicial words. It's expected that editors will take their cues from Wikipedia:Neutral point of view in good faith. —Caesura(t) 12:21, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
I take it back! :) There is a magic list of prejudicial words! And indeed, terrorist is on it. See Wikipedia:Words to avoid#Terrorist, terrorism. —Caesura(t) 12:25, 25 December 2005 (UTC)


External links

Its that time of the year again, link prune! See Wikipedia:External links.

Done, any objections, bring them above. - FrancisTyers 13:32, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I overlooked that. El_C 13:44, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
No problem :) - FrancisTyers 13:48, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Please Restore the Iraqi Kurdistan Page

Please also restore the article Iraqi Kurdistan, as the current REDIRECT to Kurdistan is not accurate, since the former only refers to the Kurdish areas of northern Iraq. Also the REDIRECT in the Kurdistan (disambiguation) is also wrong. It should be Kurdistan Region or Iraqi Kurdistan. Also the name for the existing article Kurdish Autonomous Region isnot accurate since this name was only used during the former Ba'ath regime in the 70's and 80's. Such a term is not used in Iraq anymore. Here is the reference to the name of the region in the new constitution of Iraq:

CHAPTER ONE: REGIONS

Article 113:

First: This Constitution shall approbate the region of Kurdistan and its existing regional and federal authorities, at the time this constitution comes into force.

Article 137:

Legislation enacted in the region of Kurdistan since 1992 shall remain in force, and decisions issued by the government of the region of Kurdistan - including court decisions and agreements - shall be considered valid unless it is amended or annulled pursuant to the laws of the region of Kurdistan by the competent entity in the region, provided that they do not contradict with the constitution.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/12/AR2005101201450.html

Heja Helweda 23:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Done. - FrancisTyers 23:52, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


PROBLEMS ON KURDISH ARTICLES

First of all the Kurdish flag is allowed in Iran, but is not sanctioned publicly. Kurds have it in their homes and are allowed to have them. It is certainly not criminal in Iran for Kurds to have the Kurdish flag or symbol as many of my friends do. So edit your statement about it being criminal in Iran. Need I remind you all, that Kurds are ethnic Iranians and have historically enjoyed the greatest liberties in Iran as opposed to the mainstream discrimination Kurds face in Syria, Iraq, and Turkey? It is usually Israeli sources, with increasing American and British help and aid, that intentionally falsely claim that the Kurdish flag (which fly the Pan-Iranian colours as does the unofficial flag of the Azerbaijani people and the flag of Tajikistan) is prohibited in Iran. FLYING THE KURDISH FLAG IN IRAN IS NOT CRIMINAL AS IT IS MENTIONED BY ISRAELI SOURCES.

Furthermore, I go on to read that there was research done that basically proves Kurds and Jews are genetically the same. It seems to me that certain individuals who I can see are Israeli are following the Israeli states policy of editing articles in lines with current events in the Middle East. Kurds are Iranians just as how Russians, Serbs, Poles, and Bulgarians are all Slavic peoples. Israel, the USA, and Britain are trying to create conflict in Iran as was done in the former Yugoslavia by creating problems along ethnic lines. This is called ‘balkanisation.’ The Israelis are doing this covertly through operations in Iraqi Kurdistan.

Propaganda for dividing and conquering people starts with definitions then the manipulation of history. I am an academic in the fields of anthropology and history and an Iranian from a minority group that is neither Persian nor Kurdish. I can tell you that Kurds are definitely ethnic Iranians in all senses from tradition to language, history, culture, identity, and genetics. I am alarmed by the current purging of internet articles that have hidden agendas trying to separate the Iranian identity of Kurds.

As I was told by a Kurdish professor, Mr. Eskandari in Tehran: “Kurds are Iranian and the entity of Iran as a state and nation was founded by the [main] ancestors of the Kurds, the Mede who established Iran as an empire. One problem that has compounded the issue is that people misuse the term Persian and Iranian. Persians are Iranian, but all Iranians, like the Kurds and Ossetians, are not Persians.”

The Mede and other similar Iranian groups are the ancestors of the Kurds, but not the only group, just like how the ancient Persians are the main ancestors of the modern Persians, but not the only ancestors. Ancestors of Persians and Kurds also include Arabs, Mongols, and other Iranian peoples.

I ask all the honest people on this site who wish to enhance knowledge not to take part in this fabrication of fact. There was a time when the Turkish government tried to convince Kurds that they were “Mountain Turks” and now there are powers at play that are either trying to disassociate the Kurds from their Iranian identity and origins or make whole generations of proud young Kurds forget or be unaware of their Iranian ethnicity. This is due to geo-strategic schemes. These forces are trying to victimize a whole group of people from knowing their own proud history and culture which is genuinely Iranian. The covert foreign policy of Israel, Britain, and America comes at the expense of the Kurds and even their history and culture.

“THE ENEMIES OF SCIENCE, THE ARTS, AND KNOWLEDGE ARE THE ENEMIES OF ALL MANKIND!”

Kurdish Flag is banned in Iran

Wikipedia is an ensyclopedia not a forum. Kurdish flag is banned in Iran; Flying it causes THREE years inprisonment. Even as far as I know it is not based on your Pan-Iranistic flag! Instead of accusing other people think of citing neutral sources. Mesopotamia 00:08, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


THE KURDISH FLAG IS NOT CRIMINAL IN IRAN. THIS IS UNTURE

The Kurdish flag was from the Mahhabad Republic in Iran and formed by Kurds living within Iran. It is an inverse of the Pan-Iranian colours. It even has the Sun that is so important to all Iranian peoples and their calender and festavals such as Noruz. Noruz is the official New Year in Iran and celebrated by all Iranian peoples. The Sun was also on the Iranian flag along with a lion and sword before 1979. The use of the Sun was of great importance to the Ancient Aryan ancestors of the Kurds who were Zoroastrians. Zoroastrain faith was the state faith of Ancient Iran.

THE TRUTH IS BEING DISTORTED

Wikipedia is an ensyclopedia not a forum. The Kurds are an Iranian peoples no matter how you put it.

Kurds in Iran

Beside vandalising cited info from the page you are wasting your time. There is NO neutral source in this planet to support your childish claims. On the other hand there are thousands (if not milions or miliards) neutral and credible sources opposing your too childish claims. Maby you think Kurdish people are so forgotten among western midia that you can easily lie in the English wikipedia?!!! Or maybe you want us to mention all of those unjustifies against Kurdish people in Iran, do you? Ok. I myself will try mention and more more wildness of Iranians against this minority in Kurds own Homeland.

Ageh behetoon barnakhore darin waqte khodetoono talaf mikonin! Mesopotamia 11:54, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

You are helping pollute an atmosphere of fact and truth Mesopotamia and you are from Iraq. You have probably never been to Iran and think that Kurds are treated badly in Iran as they have been done in Turkey and Iraq. It is individuals like you that hurt Kurdistan. Tell me why all the Iraqi Kurds went to Iran as refugees when Saddam attacked them? It is you that is non-neutral and adds boggas untrue statements that are your Personal Point of Views. You wrote Kurds cannot speak Kurdish in Iran yet there are many Kurdish language newspapers and Kurdish television programs in Iran. It is true that unfair things happen in Iran, but when they happen they happen to everyone from Persians to Azeris and Kurds. There are many sources that support my claim and they are real research and not news reports from biased media sources from Kurdish seperatists or American right wing papers. ANYONE CAN SAY ANYTHING ON THE NET AND YOUR FABRICATED TALES OF KURDISH OPPRESION ARE PROOF OF THAT.

Lastly what is most important of all is what the Kurds of Iran say themselves and they will all disagree with you and your ignorant remarks. The Kurds in Iran are treated well. How many Kurds from Iran must tell you this. I see you argued with all the people who have ration statements like the fact that Kurds are an Iranian ethnic group! You have no credibility.


You have no rational I provided you with a website to the University of Kurdistan and you can see for your self that Kurdish is taught as a lnanguauge in Iran and two of my relations were teachers in the Kurdish language in Saqqez, Iran. So why are you fibbing and making things up?

I know Kurdish teachers from Iran who taught Kurdish to their students. I did ot want to get personal but you are getting unreal and going to far!

And if you want to speak to me in a non-English language DO IT IN KURDISH NOT PERSIAN! You can speak Persian, must have been easy to learn since Kurdish and Persian are very similar and thus, Iranian languages! By the way it very rude to write in a language other readers can not understand! But if you want to talk to me do it in Kurdish!

darin waqte khodetoono talaf mikonin in Persian---> translates to Êwe xerîkin katî xotan be fêrû eden in Kurdish. Is that similar? Heja Helweda 21:34, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
That is the way you might say it but thats not the way all the Kurds I know say it! Have ever been to Kurdistan? Where are you from Turkey? Kurdish and Persian are alike and part of the Iranian language group.
That's Sorani spoken in Mahabad, Saqqez,Marivan,Baneh,Bokan,Sardasht, Sanandaj. Please refer to the Kurdish language page to learn more about the language. Thanx. Heja Helweda 00:23, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


I come from there and I know, while you are Iraqi Kurdistan. We took Kurds in from Iraq and Turkey and they tought Iran was paradise for Kurds. You are polluting this site!



Iran's religious and ethnic minorities remained subject to discrimination and persecution. Representatives of the predominantly Sunni Muslim Kurdish minority protested the appointment of a new governor of Kurdistan province from the Shi'a majority. The authorities overlooked Sunni candidates for the post put forward by Kurdish parliamentarians. The lack of public school education in Kurdish language remained a perennial source of Kurdish frustration Mesopotamia 18:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

KURD ARE NOT SYSTEMATICALLY OPPRESSED IN IRAN AND ARE AN IRANIAN PEOPLES

You have no rational I provided you with a website to the University of Kurdistan and you can see for your self that Kurdish is taught as a lnanguauge in Iran and two of my relations were teachers in the Kurdish language in Saqqez, Iran. So why are you fibbing and making things up?


Go ask any Kurds from Iranian they will tell you that your source is wrong! Kurds are not treated badly for being Kurds. Yes, oppresion happens in Iran, but it is not focused on any ethnic group. One can argue Persians are even more oppressed. I come from there I know! They will tell you that they learned Kurdish. You are spreading POVs. Look just cause Kurds were treated badly in Iraq and Turkey does not mean they were in Iran.


MesopotamiaI just went through your sources and buddy you are manipulating words. EVERYONE WHO READ THIS GO TO HIS SOURCE AND READ THE WHOLE THING AND DECIDE FOR YOURSELVES. http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/defenders/hrd_iran/alert081005_toloui.htm Firstly read the article.
1. They are demanding that the Iranian Ministry of Justice punish the memebers of the security forces that caused the death. Does not sound like the government oppresses their vocal attitudes.
2. The individual who died was a memeber of a legal and registered organization in Iran
3. It was reported in mainstream Iranian media. If Iran was oppress then state owned media would not report this to the Iranian masses.
4. The people in the picture are freely protesting in 'Iran.' The sign in the ffront is in Persian, but if I am currect the sign in the back is in Kurdish.
5. There is one mistake on the article. Kurds in Iran are almost half and half in relations to Shia Islam and Sunni Islam, with the Sunni Kurds being just a little more numerous.
6. They are even allowed to protest in Iran! What would happen in Turkey or Iraq? There would be dead bodies or mass arrests.


That governor was a Kurd. Kermanshah's is also a Kurdish province and there is no problems there due to the fact that almost all the Kurds there are Shias. I do agree with you there are problmes in relations to preferance for Shia candidates, but there are many Kurds in Parliament in Tehran and they have equal represntation. Kurdish is taught in Iranian schools but not the public boards of education it is in the alternative 'Azzad boards of Education' which have tutition.

There is no such thing as Kurdish school or Education in Kurdish in Iran. Please provide source for your claims. Thanx. Heja Helweda 21:38, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
One can argue Persians are more oppresed in Iran than Kurds. Kurds are not systematically oppressed like you try to piant a picture towards. Yes I agree with you there is oppression in Iran from time to time, but no where near anything that the rest of the Middle East faces. The enjoy great liberties that other Kurds have not for most their histories. Did you know there were Kurdish Kings ruling Iran? Now if you bring these issues up how about the Kurdish role in the Armenian genoiced or the oppresion of Assyrians and Turkoman in Iraq? Are they true or are they stretched?


You are the one who keeps taking the word "Iranian ethnic group" off this article. That is afact but your are ignorant and blinded so you try to argue and denote 'Iranianism' in any possible way. You put propaganda on this site and edit the word Iranian from the start even though it is the truth. WHo is biased with POV????


If you are realistic why do you keep editing the statement that Kurds are an ethnic Iranian group in the article. That is a fact, but you are doing it for personal motives and it proves you are biased. By the way the Governor of Kurdistan is a Kurd as it is cited on Kurdish websites and the Iranian Governments website.

KURDISTAN OBSERVER, A NON-POLITICAL PRO-KURDISH BODY MADE OF KURDS SAYS:

Go read Kurdistan Observer and what it says. It is fair and unbaised and talks to regular Kurds.

READ THIS ALL IT RIGHTEN BY AN ORGANIZATION THAT WANTS TO ADVANCE KURDS. IT GOES AGAINST WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. YOU ARE CLEARLY BIASED YOU EDIT THE TERM THAT KURDS ARE AN ETHNIC IRANIAN GROUP WHICH IS A FACT.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~konews/23-11-02-kurds-iran-cling-homeland.html

It tells the truth that 'Kurds are an Iranian people' and that it is being said by Kurds.


That is a Kurdish source from outside Iran which is neurtral. Firstly is shows you the Kurds demands in Iran, the pros and cons, and then it shows that they are treated well and it also shows you that they have power. So like I said don't think cause you are a Kurd that you are an authority to speak about Kurds in Iran. With your propaganda. You have been proven to be biased and have no credit. As your conversations with other memebers show.

When you keep editing the fact that Kurds are an Iranian ethnic group it shows you are bias.

ADMINISTRATION SHOULD GET INVOLVED HERE

You can not try and hide the Iranian identity of Kurds and write Kurds are ethnic relatives of Jews and Africans. This is going too far.

Sort it out on the talk page

First of all stop typing in all capitals. Next, provide links and don't dump cut and paste copyvio. There is now a NPOV tag on the page until you all get it sorted. This is not aimed at any one person but we don't need an edit war and I will not take sides as to which version is correct. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 22:23, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you.

Diyako Talk + 22:26, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


User:Diyako I think you might be the same person as the last guy, User:Mesopotamia just changing your user name.

You and him are making this untrue claims of Kurds being the same as Jews. This is not true and your sources have no credibility.

KURDISH FLAG IS OF IRANIAN ORIGIN

The Kurdish flag was from the Mahhabad Republic in Iran and formed by Kurds living within Iran. It is an inverse of the Pan-Iranian colours. It even has the Sun that is so important to all Iranian peoples and their calender and festavals such as Noruz. Noruz is the official New Year in Iran and celebrated by all Iranian peoples. The Sun was also on the Iranian flag along with a lion and sword before 1979. The use of the Sun was of great importance to the Ancient Aryan ancestors of the Kurds who were Zoroastrians. Zoroastrain faith was the state faith of Ancient Iran. Tajikistan also uses these colours.

You have already been asked several times: stop typing IN ALL CAPS, and please sign your posts by adding four tildes ( ~~~~ ) to the end of each message. You will be much more likely to be taken seriously by following these simple rules of Wikipedia etiquette. --PeruvianLlama(spit) 21:33, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
The citation that claims the Kurdish flag is banned in Iran does not even talk about the flag. Look at the sources certain individuals add just for their agendas. THE KURDISH FLAG IS NOT CRIMINAL IN IRAN.It has been an established fact, but certain individuals can not stop turning this place into a political forum.

Added a new genetic study that includes all of the previous studies and focuses on the Kurds comparatively and with their neighbors

The findings of the study show that the Kurds do cluster with the Iranian peoples OVERALL, but with variations from region to region and also shows that they have ties to other regions as well. Hopefully, this will end some of the controversy, but I kind of doubt it. Tombseye 21:54, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Kurds are part of the Iranian gene pool and are ethnic Iranians with regional variations, just like other ethnic Iranians.
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