Talk:Kublai Khan

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[edit] Your Mission...

...should you choose to accept it is to read the Rossabi book (see references on the main Khublai Khan page), digest it and and make a condensed, yet original, version of it and post it here. Or, more exactly, to the Khublai Khan page. Good luck. We're all counting on you. --Thadswanek 16:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Kubla Khan" by Samuel Taylor Coleridge

Apparently Samuel Taylor Coleridge was based more than loosely on his poem. Thus leading to the title. This can be seen many times, during analysis. There are many times where STC has written of the wars etc. but not directly noted. Unfortunately, there was not alot of proof that he was not only talking about Kublai Khan but also his grandfather who was the grat leader Gengis Khan.

But it can be seen that Kublai Khan is directed at in STC's poem "Kubla Khan", as his poem first talks about the destruction that occured during his brothers reign, then when he took over life in "Xanadu" (China) it became a paradise.

Quotes as proof

Huge fragments vaulted like rebounding hail,

Or chaffy grain beneath the thresher's flail:

And 'mid these dancing rocks at once and ever

It flung up momently the sacred river.

Five miles meandering with a mazy motion

Through wood and dale the sacred river ran,

Then reached the caverns measureless to man,

And sank in tumult to a lifeless ocean:

And 'mid this tumult Kubla heard from far

Ancestral voices prophesying war!

-Thus proving that Kubla (Kublai) was a person, as Kublai was involved in many wars, and this disaster/chasm was the turmoil that his brother had left behind and his brothers enemies were the "Ancestral voices prophesying war!"

[edit] Khubilai or Kublai?

Should we keep using the corrupted form in western literature? I'd like to move this to "Khubilai Khan." --Nanshu 03:17, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). This is a romanization. How can one version be better than another? --Jia ng 05:10, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

"Kublai" doesn't adhere to the original name. It may be more popular in common usage, but not in academic literature. Kublai is still better than Ogodai. It is a total error by western historians. --Nanshu 23:13, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Consider it English. We have an article at Kuomintang, not Guomindang even though the latter sounds more like the actual pronounciation. Someone tried to move the Stalin article too. --Jia ng 00:21, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Several prominent Eastern archaeologists use the Kublai Khan form. In addition, Wikipedia is intended as an encyclopedia from the masses for the masses. As such, popular names are considered good names for articles. While I would like for all articles to use proper names for relevant subjects, some people prefer to work backwards by having articles use popular names while redirects use proper names. I disagree, but I'm not going to fight such idiocy. Adraeus 15:20, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Improvement

This article needs serious improvement. [[User:Colipon|Colipon+(T)]] 05:14, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. Adraeus 15:20, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Names table

I have modified and enriched the names table to have it more standardized with the names tables of the other Chinese emperors, and also to take into account particularities of the Mongolian Yuan Dynasty. The new table should be used as a model for the other Mongol emperors. My knowledge of Mongolian is more limited than my knowledge of Chinese, so please correct any errors in the Mongolian (cyrillic) names if you see some. Hardouin 20:22, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It's kind of silly that the infobox is bigger than the article. Filiocht 12:54, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

Tables are a valid medium of information - the remedy is not to shorten the table but lengthen the article. --Oldak Quill 13:49, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Tables should be converted to wiki syntax. See Template:Infobox Company for an example. Adraeus 15:20, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Era names

Zhongtong (中統 Zhōngtǒng): June 29, 1260 – September 6, 1264
Zhiyuan (至元 Zhìyuán): September 7, 1264 – January 16, 1295

To what do these names refer? Without any sort of description of this section, the information contained is wholly irrelevant to the article. I've removed this section until someone can provide a description or someone merges it into an appropriate section of the article. Adraeus 15:20, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Era names are very important in China, since they are the only means to keep track of years. Historians often referred a specific year, for example 5th year of Zhiyuan, or 28th year of Zhengguan. I have added era names into the table, and used some dates as era names throughout the article. Olorin28 04:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion

I have done a massive expansion of this article. The history of his early years have been added, along with his (brief) war against his brother for Khanate, and his years as emperor. The section "Empire" has been split into Mongol Empire and Emperor of Yuan, since the old section seems to entail two different things. Era names have been added back in. Sources come from Chinese wikipedia and Chinese CYCNET online encyclopedia. Olorin28 04:03, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nitpicking

"He also introduced paper currency although eventually a lack of fiscal discipline and inflation turned this into an economic disaster." This is a flawed sentence in that it alludes that Kublai's rule had the paper currency inflated. According to Rossabi, this isn't true. The currency was backed by a silver or silk standard and was controlled in printing. It was only after Kublai's death, and the "Three Infamous" rulers who came after him who caused economic turmoil (as per the Song experimenters in currency in the dynasty before, they printed out money with no regard of inflation). Kublai Khan was a lot more aware of economic issues than what this current article gives him credit for. But, do understand that in a modern context, all of the financial undertakings during this time were pretty damn horrible. It's just in the retrospective context that it becomes clear that Kublai Khan brought a lot of good to the concept of currency. -User:UnfathomableJ 10:22 22 March 2006 (PST) I would be willing over the next week to do a bit of textual citation and editing using the Rossabi book, by the way.

I do not see that sentence as flawed. It says "eventually". The problem with Rossabi is that he is such a bad scholar and a revisionist. If you look I think you may find that it is true during KK's reign as well. Kubilai shows no signs of knowing much about anything apart from traditional Mongol passtimes as it happens. Paper currency was an unmitigated disaster and I do not see that KK did anyone any good at all. What do you think was so good about it? Providing a trustworthy currency based on silver or gold would have done some good. He didn't do that - why not? 11:30, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cruft

Family Guy? - come on. Jooler 08:42, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Singhasari

this needs to be mentioned since the Khan demanded submission from them. Inadvertly created the Majapahit Empire--Dangerous-Boy 02:34, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did the Mongol army stop the invasion deeper into Europe upon his death?

I remember this fact was mentioned on the History Channel. It may as well be in this article. John Hyams 00:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, my mistake, it was Ogedei Khan. John Hyams 00:20, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

There appears to be some vandalism in the "early years" section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.3.73.71 (talk) 22:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

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