Talk:Knin

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Contents 1 Vlach 2 False information 3 Operation Storm liberated Croatia 4 POV 5 What's the point of this discussion

[edit] Vlach

I removed the "(Serbs)" after Vlach for what I think are obvious reasons - until relatively recently the term Vlach and several related terms denoted all the cattle-raising populations in the Dinaric mountains, regardless of religion (and later ethnicity). After the Turkish wars the term was apparently limited to Orthodox Vlachs in the north. In Dalmatia, all the "hinterlanders" regardless of ethno-confessional status were called Vlachs until the downfall of Venetian Republic or later, and even today this name is used in the pejorative sense for "people from the hills" in coastal Dalmatian cities and towns. --Elephantus 20:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

You're right, I know a Serb Splićanka who always refers to her daughter's (Croat) mother-in-law as a "vlajna". :-) --estavisti 19:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

wow, 20 000 refuges were there and i was 10 and remember the war so please dont argue against something you have no knowledge about

[edit] False information

I want to say that this sentense: "After taking over Knin, Serbs expelled all Croats from the so called Krajina, and slaughtered those who were left behind." is false. Serbs and Croats lived in Knin together for over 200 years, and in Yugoslav wars, how you called them, Croats expelled Serbs because they wanted to make Croatia country where only Croats live. I was one of the Serbs in Knin and I was expelled from my own house and I came here in Belgrade. Well, than I had only 5 years but I knew what was hapening around me so please can you change that information...

Thanks, --Wladimir 16:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, see, some of us weren't five years old when it happened, and everything that happened is well documented already. Please don't erase the history 1989-1995 or misrepresent what happened in 1995. --Joy [shallot] 20:19, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Znaš šta, ona izreka "Pobednik piše istoriju" je tačna, a ti si očiti dokaz toga. Ja ne razumem zašto ti je tj. vama teško da to priznate... Priznaj, znam da istina boli i nemoj ti da menjaš istoriju... --Wladimir 10:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Please use English on English Wikipedia talk pages, so that others can understand us as well.

You shouldn't be the one to invoke the concept of victor's justice because by removing mention of what happened in 1991 you side with the victor of that period of the war.

In any case, this page is hardly the place to talk about general events. If someone can provide a coherent description of what happened *in Knin* during the war (and not in Kijevo or other places), that should be in this article. Everything else belongs to general articles about what happened in Krajina during the war.

--Joy [shallot] 15:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't have time arguing with you. Sorry about writening Serbian on English wikipedia, I won't do that anymore... Wladimir 17:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

If you don't have time to explain your wrong edits, then how come you have time to make them in the first place? --Joy [shallot] 18:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Let me explicate my sarcasm a bit more.

Wladimir, you have reverted the article to your text seven times now over a period of three days. Your version is wholly incorrect because 1) you removed valid content 2) the Croats (notice generalization) did not "[want] to make Croatia land where only Croats live" 3) the Operation Storm, the link to which you also removed, was not a "massacre" 4) there is no actual proof that 200,000 Serbian people became refugees, those are estimates 5) there weren't 200,000 people in Knin or in its municipality, so this is offtopic 6) saying "a lot" of them died is misleading (esp. coupled with the removal of the link to the Storm article) 7) the last sentence about Croatia not wanting to "recognize that they attacked Knin in political goals" is nonsensical (the military operation Storm was obviously an endeavour that fulfilled a political goal - to reinstate Croatian government control over all of its territory). And to put the cherry on top, you have also vandalised this talk page once by censoring this discussion, and doubled the content of the article in one of your edits, too.

In conclusion, should you continue to ignore the policies and guidelines of Wikipedia (and common sense), you will get banned from editing. --Joy [shallot] 16:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

There, that does it, I've now reported him. --Joy [shallot] 17:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Given how our newbie Wladimir just somehow manages to make the fourth revert outside the 24 hour period escaping, thus, the limitation covered by the 3RR I cannot help thinking that the retarded sock puppet master user:Purger a.k.a. user:Medule is at work here. 83.131.74.187 20:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't necessarily think so, but if you suspect there's sockpuppetry involved, please see Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets. --Joy [shallot] 16:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Please, let's try and be NPOV...I mean in 1991 'Croatia' a country that had never existed in a real sense, only by changing ancient history declared 'independence' from a federal country. At the same time it 1)removed the rights of minority Serbs 2) engaged in acts of ethnic terror 3)resurrected the flag that Croatians had used under their Nazi supporting government that commited holocaust on non-Croatians. In response the minority-Serbs said that they could not be part of independent Croatia...so?

The Croat population of some 43,000 left voluntarily in this period, under the encouragement of their own national media which was promising massive military operations in the region. However, over 1000 remained undisturbed.

The Serb regugee column of 1995 was at least 150,000 by all international reckonings. The remaining population of Serbs was entirely destroyed as was all Serb property. This occurred.

I am not Serbian. I stumbled into Knin on the day of Thanksgiving this year. It was a 5 day celebration of hatred and violence. 5 day. Filmed by the national media. Statues of soldiers with guns aloft stood in the main square. Many men wore militia uniforms. The militia headquarters was next to the Orthodox church (chained and bolted) the houses around it stood empty. All down the street hung Croat flags, heavy armoured vehicles rolled down the streets, nationalist grafiti was on every wall, pictures of tanks were ubiquitous.

Now. come on. This page is NPOV. By the OSCE's reckoning hardly any Serbs have remained and the previous population was almost entirely Serb.

DEAL WITH IT, Both sides did screwed up crap. But it has to be dealt with. The expulsion of the native population of Krajina was and is a war crime which must be remedied. The population of Knin is temporary as if Croatia ever wants to join the EU they must vacate the properties they occcupy.

194.112.59.212 01:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Operation Storm liberated Croatia

Croatia celebrates a military operation that ended the war in their homeland, with support from the United States and CIA intelligence. If the Serbs did not declare a seperate state within the country and forced out the Croatian population in the region, the operation never would have been needed.

[edit] POV

What is wrong with me saying that the Serbs of Knin were ethnically cleansed and that Bosnian Croats were settled in the town? --estavisti 07:52, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Because it wasn't ethnic cleansing. Srebrenica, Rwanda, Cambodia, that kind of stuff is ethnic cleansing. The only way the operation would have been ethnic cleansing was if it was for the sole purpose of killing/purging the area of its Serbian inhabitants. But the point of the operation was to free the Croatian territory under occupation after 4 years of failed negotiations, with the Croats in the area being forced to flee during the development of RSK. If lets say there was a large ethnic group living in one area, and a war began against another and the other side wanted push out that group from the land just so they can purify it, then the term "cleansing" might be used. But in this case, Operation Storm was used to stop the Serbian aggression in Croatia and free the territory. If there are any other concerns on this subject, I will try my best to answer them.

Jesuislafete

Sorry, proper signature--Jesuislafete 05:39, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Pure nonsense. Whenever a Serb/Croat is tortured or killed or whenever Serbo-Croat property is damaged, destroyed or stolen on one line, that's ethnic cleansing.

Interpreting things like that you won't get very far from Franjo Tudjman or Vojislav Seselj. --PaxEquilibrium 21:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What's the point of this discussion

Here should talked about Knin, and not about Serbs and Croats. Both of those nations are now living in Knin and that is what is most important at the moment. Also, both nations should be mentioned (without national prefixes and passions) in Knin's history, because both of them created it. So as Turks, Venetian and Austrians who created the biggest history monument in those parts of Croatia, the Knin fortress where I spend my childhood. And at the end, there is no big difference between Croats and Serbs individually, because they acted pretty much the same,...before the war, during the war and after the war. And don't search for truth and written arguments in Croatian or Serbian books, because there want be truth as long as it can be used by both Croatian and Serbian politicians, a that will be in next 40-50 years, maybe.

So please, get focus on Knin and his beauty, and leave our children to interpret what had happened...

Hereis the place where you can continue your discussion...

--kliker 00:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

SIMPLY READ THIS PAGE... this information is very well known. http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/pre-wwOne/Krajina-Serbs.html

I don't mean to dispute the facts on the page but Srpska Mreža is in the end of the day a pan-Serbian site, I know that it gives sources, all verifiable but the thing is that you can find many sites published by Croatian nationalists which will not only give the Croat angle on Knin and the Krajina, but also deeper Croatian aspirations such as the right to all of Bosnia, much of Montenegro and present-day Serbia, not to mention Slovenia. I don't think anybody disputed the right of the Serbs to be in Knin, the question from the Croatian angle was originally: should these people be called Serbs?, and if so, why not accept that Bunjevs and Janjevs are Croats? It is a long winded argument with points from all parties involved. Evlekis 08:43, 23 November 2006 (UTC) Евлекис