Talk:Kingdom of the Netherlands
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[edit] Netherlands vs Kindom of the Netherlands
The Netherlands article has occasionally been about the Netherlands as one of the three members of the Kindgom of the Netherlands. However at present it's about the entire kingdom. There's probably nothing wrong with that, but it implies that this Kingdom of the Netherlands should redirect to Netherlands and the article contents should be placed somewhere else.
On the other hand, it may be confusing to have a lot of articles Politics of the Netherlands etc., which are about the Netherlands alone (there is a separate Politics of the Netherlands Antilles.) Maybe Netherlands should not be about the entire kingdom?
Officially the Kingdom of the Netherlands is more or less a "federal state", like the USA or Germany, but with only 3 states. In international relations, Netherlands "redirects" to Kingdom of the Netherlands, which is responsible for foreign affairs. The obscuring detail is that the kingdom is completely dominated economically and politically by the Netherlands, so that trying to separate out the two meanings seems almost pedantic.
- I have changed the first sentence of the article Netherlands, because it seems to be about the European part only. - Patrick 18:09 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)
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- Thanks, I think this is a perfectly good solution.
[edit] Head of government / legislature
Who is the head of government of the Kingdom of the Netherlands? How are they appointed/elected? Is there a legislature? Morwen 18:25, May 2, 2004 (UTC)
- Beatrix of the Netherlands. Hereditary succession. I suppose the parliament of the Netherlands is defacto the legislature. Peking Duck 20:47, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
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- I said head of government, not head of state! I wasn't aware that the Netherlands was an absolute monarchy. Morwen - Talk 17:17, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
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- I don't think there is a legislature. All powers that such a branch of government would have, are delegated to the parliaments of the individual countries. The executive branch of the government consists of the head of state (Beatrix) and a number of ministers from the three governments. I think. Eugene van der Pijll 23:21, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
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- Any legislation related to Defence, Foreign affairs, Citizenship and Extradition is likely to pass through the parliament of the Netherlands, so this is why I say it's defacto the legislature. Peking Duck 22:59, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
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- Does this mean that the other countries don't get a say about who their citizens are?
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- The Dutch parliament only contains representatives of the Netherlands, the other countries don't get any vote (after all, they have their own parliaments). The statute (in Dutch from [1]) describes the procedures. The legislature for affairs of the Kingdom is in fact the parliament of the Netherlands, but the other countries can introduce their own legislation, as can the cabinet. The islands get to comment on proposals and their representatives can take part in the debates in the parliament. Their representatives have a limited veto, where they can reject proposals unless the parliament votes for them with a majority at least 3/5 of the votes cast. Peking Duck 23:54, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] In practice
What is the meaning of the federality in everyday life?
Can nationals of one of the countries move freely to another of them? Is money transfer different than in-country? Trade? Are the overseas countries part of the European Union? They don't use the Euro, do they?
- There is only one nationality, as far as I know, so many people from the Caribbean have emigrated to the Netherlands. But the islands appear to be able to restrict immigration in the other direction. Each country has a different currency, only the Netherlands uses the Euro. The Caribbean parts are not part of the EU, but associated with it. Peking Duck 21:02, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
[edit] To add under "see also" section
I would like to add the following to the "see also" section.
*[[Mainland]]
*[[One Country, Two Systems]]
*[[Mainland China]]
*[[Metropolitan France]]
*[[Lower 48]] / [[Continental United States]] — Instantnood 20:55, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
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- So what? You'd like to. But unless you have a good reason to do so, it will be reverted. Gene Nygaard 22:20, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
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- Why should it be reverted? As a Dutchman I can say that the things Instantnood wants to add are pretty relevant. The situation isn't exactly like the Chinese situation but it's close enough. The Kingdom of the Netherlands is just an extremely compact federation. --84.26.109.69 17:18, Jan 17, 2006 (UTC)
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- Because these links need a lot more explanation. The situation of China/Hong Kong is similar in some aspects, and wildly different in other aspects, compared to the Kingdom of the Netherlands. An article comparing both systems (and France, and the U.S./Alaska) would probably be welcome, but to only give these links would suggest that those articles describe the Dutch situation. Eugene van der Pijll 18:31, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Well, that strikes me as very unhelpful comments. Obviously, most see also links "require explanation". They are clearly not meant to be synonyms, but as suggestions for further reading on related articles; these links are merely meant as a courtesy to the reader and are usually related topically, but sometimes of interest for other reasons (etymology, history, geography, etc). Users Gene and Eugene might want to brush up on this and this guideline and start from there.
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- "WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A DUMPING GROUND FOR RANDOM INFORMATION". Eugene van der Pijll 21:32, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Another matter that puzzles me is the title of this page. My spontaneous thought is that since the Kingdom of Norway, Kingdom of Denmark, French Republic, and United States of America all just redirect to the common short-hand form of the country names, why doesn't the Kingdom of the Netherlands. The specific constitutional arrangements of whether peripheral outlying fragments are integrated parts of the mainland state or are external entities could generally dealt with in a separate section on those countries' main articles. But perhaps these statuses can better be understood if explained in a separate article with a more specific title (e.g. Constituent states of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, compare Overseas regions and Insular areas)? I'm not saying that all articles of the same "series" must conform to exactly the same format, but for consistency and comparability are shared "model" does help. //Big Adamsky 20:02, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
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- But the term "Kingdom of the Netherlands" is never ever used to refer to just the Netherlands, but is only used when the speaker wants to specifically include the Antilles and Aruba (or when he wants to emphasize that it is a kingdom, of course). The terms are not synonymous, and a redirect would not be appropriate here. Note that the Antilles and Aruba are not dependencies of the Netherlands, but are equal parties in the Kingdom; the situation is not completely incomparable to the British Commonwealth. The Overseas regions on the other hand are more or less on the same organizatorial level as the French regions or departments; that is: subnational entities. -- Eugene van der Pijll 21:32, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
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- It has not been the British Commonwealth since 1949. It is now the Commonwealth of Nations. Hu 01:00, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
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- That is true. It's a continuum, running from the Commonwealth, through the Kingdom of the Netherlands, and France, to the UK and the US (continental/Alaska/Hawaii). An article that compares all of these systems would be very welcome. Eugene van der Pijll 09:20, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Perhaps this article is comparable in substance to the one called Realm of New Zealand then? //Big Adamsky 16:28, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Judging from our article on the Realm of N.Z.: yes, these two situations look very similar. The description at Associated state of N.Z. seems to fit the Dutch situation perfectly. Eugene van der Pijll 17:02, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Flag
Is the flag of the kingdom of the netherlands the same as the flag of the netherlands, or should we include all three flags from the netherlands, the dutch anillies and Aruba?--KimvdLinde 06:16, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Its the same (AA-NL 14:35, 10 February 2006 (UTC))
- The same flag is used for the Netherlands and the Kingdom of the Netherlands, am I right? — Instantnood 22:36, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] King
Queen Beatrix is KING of the Netherlands, the constitution does not know the function of Queen. (AA-NL 14:36, 10 February 2006 (UTC))
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- So what? Germany's Basic Law (Grundgesetz der Bundesrepublik Deutschland) also uses the masculin Bundeskanzler opposed to the feminine Bundeskanzlerin when describing the Federal Government, even though Angela Merkel is female. In conversation one speaks of Bundeskanzlerin Merkel off course, but in documents the male form is used. --84.26.109.69 10:19, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
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- The UK has the Interpretation Act 1978 which determines the default for interpreting Acts of Parliament. Section 6 reads as follows:
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In any Act, unless the contrary intention appears,-
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(a) words importing the masculine gender include the feminine;
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(b) words importing the feminine gender include the masculine;
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(c) words in the singular include the plural and words in the plural include the singular.
- Surely Dutch (and German!) law has something similar?
- Silverhelm 13:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC).
- A female king is a queen, by definition. I don't know if an act like the UK one exists here, but you can rest assured that it wouldn't be needed. Dutch grammar just works that way. And I can assure you that her official title is Koningin der Nederlanden. There is only one caveat: to prevent confusion, the husband of a queen is not called king, but prince instead. All the titles are specified in the Consitution. Shinobu 21:57, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] EU
Will the Kingdom Islands automatically become part of the EU? (since they'll be part of the Netherlands.) — Instantnood 21:02, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
- I think they are LGOs, oversea areas that are part of EU membercountries, but not actually fully inside the EU. Shinobu 23:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
- If they will indeed become an integral part of the Netherlands, then they'll be part of the EU just like the Azores or Réunion are despite their distance from Europe. —Nightstallion (?) 21:26, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Infobox
hey all, I notice that the template at the beginning of the article only has a little bit of info about the Kingdom itself. I tried to create an infobox similar to the one in the article in Dutch wikipedia, but in the previews, the infobox displaced the "Netherlands history template" so that most of the history section could not be read. I then tried to see if I could edit the KotN template at the top to include the info from my infobox, but I can't do it (guess I don't know enough about editting and templates). Anyway at the very least I think the map from the infobox (which I provide below) should somehow be added to the KotN template:
Also, I know it has been covered already, but the Dutch wikipedia has articles that clearly distinguish between the Kingdom of the Netherlands and the Netherlands. Perhaps someone who can read Dutch can copy the info from the Dutch articles and put them in the English articles (translated of course)?72.27.26.133 21:19, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
