User talk:Kim Meyrick
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[edit] Kleinrock
The problem I have with including that anecdote is that it's just a fun story, and as such not really suitable for inclusion in an encyclopaedia article. We do link to Kleinrock's stuff (although from the packet switching page, not the ARPANET page, I see - I will fix this - too many pages!), and if people click on the links they will be able to read it there on his web site. Plus to which, as I said, it makes Kleinrock look more important than he was in the early ARPAnet work, to the detriment of many people we don't name at all.
As to the correct division of credit: I don't think there's anything at all to be gained by interacting directly with Kleinrock (whom I first met in about 1978, if memory serves). I have known for a long time what his claims are (I helped Katie Hafner with the research for her book - you'll find me in the credits), and I think that by now I have a pretty good model what the division of credit is - and I think all of the people I named get a share of the credit, each contributing a specific facet. Noel (talk) 04:51, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Frankly, I hope he doesn't show up here, because if he does he's quite possibly going to insist on editing things to match his story on what the importance of his role is, and it's just going to turn into an ugly situation - which I frankly don't need. It would really be a lot easier to get this all straightened out without the principals directly on hand. Oh well. Noel (talk) 05:01, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Look, I'm really heartily sick of dealing with this. I spent a long time reading everything that was readily available some years ago, when I was helping Katie Hafner with research for her book. (E.g. for the early stages, I read Kleinrock's 1964 queueing theory book many years ago, along with Baran's complete study, etc, etc.) The papers recently provided online do not alter that picture in any way.
In any event, I'm not about to totally reverse the conclusion of DARPA's own in-house historians, who had acccess to DARPA's internal papers, plus interviews with all the principals there. There might be reasons to paint a slightly broader picture, but that's all.
It would also be unfair to give weight to Kleinrock's memories, when Davies is no longer here to lay out his case.
If nothing else, Wikipedia's policy is no original research, which means we're supposed to rely on historians who have the time to delve deeply, and do wide-ranging research into original sources - which DARPA's historians already did. So I suggest you get ahold of the Norberg/O'Neill book and use that for a guide.
If you will look at the Leonard Kleinrock page, you will see that I recently redid it to be NPOV, and moreover, credit Kleinrock with an important piece of work that he himself doesn't make any noise about in his "list of accomplishments" page, so it's not that I have any anti-Kleinrock axe to grind.
I have no interest in delving any deeper into this, because I've already spent too much time on it. I have zero interest in having you serve as a go-between, and I deeply wish you would stop trying. Noel (talk) 23:03, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- The thing is that I really don't have the time/energy to deal with this right now, and so I'd have really preferred to let this sleeping dog lie until another day. The pages aren't perfect, but they are reasonable, and there is much else on Wikipedia that's in even worse shape. So if I'm sounding cranky at you for bringing this all to life, that's why. Time I spend on dealing with this is time that I just don't have right now... Noel (talk) 01:31, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
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