Talk:Kimi ga Nozomu Eien

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[edit] Article name

Would there be any objections to moving the article to Rumbling Hearts, which is the official English title of the anime and the subtitle of the game? Shiroi Hane 23:33, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I would like it if it stayed as Kimi ga Nozomu Eien since the English DVDs haven't even been released yet and it's most likely more known with the Japanese title. However, I wou;dn't mind if it was changed to The Eternity you Desire since that's what the Japanese title translates to.--Juhachi 23:43, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
I would rather keep the official japanese name than adopt the name some translation chose.-- Roc VallèsTalk|Hist - 05:17, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I think it should stay as is now, with Rumbling Hearts and The Eternity you Desire redirecting to this page for the moment. However, if I'm not mistaken, it is the policy of the english wiki for anime titles to be listed under their english released name (we went over this recently with Please Twins! and Please Teacher!. I think that once it is released in the US, then yes, it should be moved to Rumbling Hearts. - FleetAdmiralJ 06:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. Snarfies 17:05, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

"However, if I'm not mistaken..."

You are mistaken. Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles) This has been the subject of a very long-running thread. Basically, everyone agrees that it was a mistake to state that anime titles should be listed under their English released name. Normal Wikipedia policy is to use the most widely known and used name, not the official name. Until it actually becomes *known* under the English name (which, for a heavily otaku-based title like this one, may never happen), keep it under the Japanese name. Ken Arromdee 17:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

OMG, don't I remember you from rec.arts.anime, pre-split? Heh. In any event... since there is an official US release website at this point (rumblinghearts.com), it seems to me that this article should be moved at once. Wether you like it or not, that WILL be the known title to 99% of English-speaking fans. I'm not entirely sure I even understand the "heavily otaku-based" argument - once it hits the shelves, it'll be bought by anyone whose eye it catches and tempts sufficiently, just like any other title. What's your criteria for a "tipping point?" Snarfies 20:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
When the title becomes mostly known under the new name to 99% of English-speaking fans, then you can rename the article. Don't rename it in advance because you think you can predict what name is going to become popular.
Personally, I think 99% of English fans for this title will probably be people who knew the title from before the English release and still refer to it by the original name. Ken Arromdee 01:47, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
So now we've changed the burden from "when most English fans" know it by the new title to "when 99% of English fans know it" then we can change it? Why 99%? Why not 75% or two-thirds? Or a majority? There is no rational reason to set the basis of changing an article name to such a level, because then it will result in title names never being changed.
I only said 99 because that was in the message I responded to. I don't think it has to be literally 99% before using the name. Most is good enough. Ken Arromdee 21:35, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
And even if you just look at the forum thread about it being licenced on Anime News Network (I think I linked to it somewhere in this discussion), you'll see that the vast majority of people postig on the thread called it by - you guessed it - Rumbling Hearts. Why? Because that's it's official English title now, so thats what most people are going to refer to it as. It may not be 99% because there will always be holdouts who just refuse to refer to it by it's new name, but that's not a good enough excuse to not change the article if most people refer to it by it's English name. FleetAdmiralJ 13:24, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Ken on this one. While I've made the argument that official titles are more likely to be known many times, this is just one case where... well.. Kimi ga Nozomu Eien isn't what I would call the next big thing to hit the English market. I seriously doubt that it will be broadcasted on TV, and it's more likely that sales of the DVD will be slow and steady for new fans. The initial exposure will be anything but quick. And it wouldn't surprise me if it never becomes widely known by the new name. -- Ned Scott 20:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Since it has an official English title, it should be moved ASAP. Exceptions to this standard are to be very, very rare. --SeizureDog 20:56, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
No, see, this is what Ken was trying to tell me about before. Official titles should not be the sole reason to re-title an article. It should only do so if it seems to point to a logical and clear conclusion that current and future fans will recognize the new "official" title. There is absolutely no reason to rush this issue when we can at least look more into this. -- Ned Scott 21:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
(now why is the name Ken Arromdee so familiar?) As was pointed out at the time the license and name were announced, the name was not chosen randomly by FUNimation, it was dictated by the licensors. Not only that, it was already the official English title of the game in Japanese - notice the distinct lack of any "kimi"s or "nozo"s in this url: http://www.oaks-soft.co.jp/princess-soft/rumbling/. Shiroi Hane 23:11, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I see. In that case, Rumbling Hearts sounds like the logical conclusion. This article is also about the game, after all.. -- Ned Scott 23:32, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Darn! You guys messed up my nice long 4 paragraph response haha. But yes, part of my response was saying how the name Rumbling Hearts was chosen by âge, not FUNimation, so that's one argument for Rubling Hearts. Also, the fact that websites like Anime News Network have changed all official references of the series on their website to Rumbling Hearts is another argument, and the fact that many people called it Rumbling Hearts in a thread that was posted in response to FUNimation's announcement that they had licenced it seems to show that once an English name is adopted, it becomes the de facto name for an anime, even if more hard-core fans may resist the name change. Of course, there is also the fact that I think that the whole "most commonly known name" policy is silly anyway, but that's beside the point. (doh, signing in helps) FleetAdmiralJ 23:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

>>notice the distinct lack of any "kimi"s or "nozo"s in this url: http://www.oaks-soft.co.jp/princess-soft/rumbling/
Er. That's the consumer version's subtitle, not the game's English title. Age's official Kimibou page can be found here. Note the distinct lack of any rumbling anywhere. Omgwtflolz 12:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

And of course, note that this article is about the game. Not the show. Omgwtflolz 07:15, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Of course, that sort of begs the question about whether the article should be about the anime rather than the game, since the game hasn't been released in the US that I'm aware of, and the anime is probably more well known anyway. Also, even if "Rumbling Hearts" is on one of the pages, it's in a way irrelevent whether it shows on another since many names change, if for no other reason that because they get translated as well. However, I would still think that the fact that age wanted the series to be called Rumbling Hearts in the US can't just be dismissed out of hand. FleetAdmiralJ 13:16, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
So what if it hasn't been released in America? Kimi ga Nozomu Eien is a game which was later ported to the PS2 (and DC?) and turned into a show. Not a show that was turned into a game. Thus, the article should be about the game. The "Rumbling Hearts" bit is only there for the consumer ports and the American release of the show. Thus, it should be kept out of this article's title, which is about the original game. Fact. There's nothing to discuss, really. If you want an article with the title Rumbling Hearts, go start one on the show or something. Omgwtflolz 08:08, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes and No. yes the game came first, and that is currently highlighted first on the page. However, the idea of "X came first, therefore that's what the article should be about" doesn't appear to be absolute, as there are articles, at least when it comes to manga and anime series, which talk about the two equally or highlight the anime above the manga it is based on. What I was saying in this case was, because the anime has been licenced and the game hasn't, therefore the article should be about the anime, with a note that it was based on the game. FleetAdmiralJ 22:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually, in cases of manga and anime articles, the whole article should encompass information from all media types, manga, anime, or otherwise, like light novels or even video games. Usually, if these individual sections become too large, they are split into seperate articles with the (manga), (anime), (video game) designations given after the initial title of the series. So for the time being, this article should touch upon all media types, that is, game, anime and the music as well. If you're hung up on the current article scope, rewrite it to seem more ambiguous so that it doesn't focus on either the game nor the anime. -- (十八|talk) 23:44, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Good point and I agree, though I'm not sure that helps with what name it should be, other than perhaps conclude that "if there is a conflict go to the old standby" which is "whatever is most well known." FleetAdmiralJ 02:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
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