Talk:Kara Borden

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This article was nominated for deletion on 16 Nov 2005. The result of the discussion was keep, subject to review in a few months.

This image is supposedly of KBB http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/3395/10037123iw.jpg Rast 19:33, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 myspace screenshot links 2 Page Blanking 3 Current tag 4 "Christian people" category tag

[edit] myspace screenshot links

• Kara Borden's MySpace (prior to 11/14) Screenshot 1 Screenshot 2

Well, if they won't let us link to them, should they be downloaded and hosted here? if its bandwidth they are worried about... if not, what is their reason then?--Azathar 22:18, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Page Blanking

• Some one blanked the page, from IP address 64.235.168.32, which is owned by Susquehanna Communications, a company out of York, PA. Sounds like some one doesn't want the page to be here. Oh well.--Azathar 00:37, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Good catch. Looks like a residential ISP. Too bad about that whole "customer privacy" thing most ISPs have; I for one would love to know who the vandal is. Rast 02:40, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Me too, also checked the Ludwig article, and the same IP addy blanked the page there too (since been fixed). Prolly a friend of them, or maybe Kara herself, she did set her myspace to "Friends Only" after David was arrested.--Azathar 03:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

• Also just noticed that this same IP user is responsible for removing external links previously. Maybe the IP needs to be banned for a period of time to punish for censorship or something.--Azathar 00:42, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Please do not link to lampkeeper.com for a mirror for Borden's site. Lampkeeper4.252.75.6 04:53, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current tag

Even though she wasn't charged in anything, she is still a victim in a current event that is unfolding before us, just like David G. Ludwig's story is unfolding, and since they are the same story, except one is the victim and one is the main suspect (though he has confessed, just not in court yet), she should be marked with the current tag.--Azathar 03:01, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

While I take mild exception at calling her a victim (accessory after the fact is probably closer to the truth), and while I doubt there'll be many more updates to this page, your reasoning is plenty good enough for me to withdraw my objection to the "current" tag. --Yamla 03:04, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Assuming what the police have told us is true (a huge assumption since they are neither infallible or omnipotent), she's very clearly an accessory after the fact.

IMO the "current" tag is no longer approriate, since "Information may change rapidly as the event progresses" is not really true any more. But I'm not a wiki-expert so I'll leave ito for someone else to remove. Rast 08:10, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

If she is no longer a victim, but an "accessory after the fact", then that information should be put in the article, as long as it is cited.--Azathar 17:54, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

All the information I have found is that she isn't an accessory, that she was in fact a witness to the crime, and then left willingly with Ludwig [1]:

Ludwig fatally shot Michael Borden, prompting Kara and her younger sister, Katelyn, to flee, Totaro said. Katelyn hid in the bathroom, where she heard a second gunshot, Totaro said.

I'd say that she wasn't much of an accessory, since the article goes on to say that she never agreed to any violence if her parents found out. --Azathar 18:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, thanks. That makes her an accessory after the fact. --Yamla 18:51, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Yamla, How do you figure? If that was the case, then the police would be pressing charges against her, according to the PA papers, they aren't going to, all she did was run away with him after she ran away from him. How does that make her an accessory? I know its been awhile since I studied anything beyond terrorism in my Criminal Justice courses (I graduated in 2002 with a B.Sc. in Criminal Justice & Psychology), but I just don't see it here.--Azathar 06:19, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

After reading over the Accessory entry Yamla, I think I see why you may think Kara is an accessory after the fact, though, if you would explain your logic, just so I can be sure. Thanks.--Azathar 06:26, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

As I recall, accessory after the fact does not exist in Pennsylvania, thus Kara could not be charged with it. Also it would be hard to charge her with it anyway. As a fourteen year old, what tangible support could she have possibly offered in Ludwig's escape? She certainly didn't drive the getaway car. If anything, her presence made him easier to catch. After all, it's a lot easier to spot two people than one. -- FloydDoorz 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I did not know that Pennsylvania does not have Accessory after the fact. That's rather strange but I do not live in the U.S. Anyway, Borden did not report the crime and while she (probably) did not drive the vehicle, she definitely fled with Ludwig and offered him emotional and financial support (here, limited to purchasing food, as far as I can see from the video tapes) during the flight. Further, if Ludwig's statements are correct, Borden was the person who demanded they flee the state and the one who proposed marriage. --Yamla 16:02, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Borden even admits she was the one who wanted to flee, if I remember correctly, but, she didn't want Ludwig to use violence, she just wanted to run away if her parents or others found out. I do agree though with the fleeing willingly with Ludwig and that she didn't report the crime. I appreciate your answering my question. Thanks.--Azathar 16:32, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Christian people" category tag

On what basis is this person linked to the "Christian people" category? There's no basis for it given in the article itself. --Lloannna 20:58, 15 October 2006 (UTC)