Talk:Kaczism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 9 March 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

Contents

[edit] false protection arguments

Please unprotect because the arguments for protection as written here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Pablo-flores#User_talk:217.98.20.20: are false:

  • The Warning for IP User talk:217.98.20.20 was for other internet user and other article - this is IP number of large Internet provider and can be used by hundreds of users. Roo72 used this confusing situation for his own private interest
  • the article is locked on obviously POVED version - with accusation of fascism of democraticaly elected president and prime minister of european country without any single proof attached.
  • The user is known for his political edits - (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Roo72)
  • and last but not least there is no revert war because only (Roo72)'s edits was the reverts - other edits introduced new facts or corrected the article.

[edit] Locked on obviously POVed version - there is no proof of PiS fascism connection pointed

Its a way of making political dust-bin of wikipedia. 83.29.153.85 22:28, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Nonsense. Please read the article again, as to the connection http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=kaczyzm+faszyzm&meta= The article does not state that PiS is a fascist party, it states that some people say so. Roo72 04:34, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
man, those are personal BLOGs and private opinions - not proof of fascism, don't you realy understand that? Encyclopedia is not a journal - it have to be based on sciences' methods of reality describing - not on journalists or even personal blogs. Here you should forget about your political standings and try to use politology as method to analise what you see. 217.98.20.195 10:12, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article taken from political smear campaign

Of polish former-communist SLD party.

[edit] Not Neutral POV

The last paragraph refers to "lack of tolerance" and "homophobic tendencies", but PiS sympathizers would probably consider them debatable claims.

ofcourse - it looks like a political propaganda article of polish former communists 83.29.153.85 22:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Can the paragraph be rewritten to identify whose views are being stated? Chonak 07:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rename kaczyzm to kaczism

I renamed Kaczyzm to Kaczism, to keep strict English rules, as in case of nazism, fascism, communism, socialism, etc... look here for example [1]. Kaczism in French is Kaczisme, in Czech is Kaczysmus and in German is Kaczismus. Thus please rename article Kaczyzm to Kaczism. Obviously Kaczism sounds more English-like than Kaczyzm.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wikinger (talk contribs) .

[edit] In English exists spelling as Kaczism

Look here, [2] that English is using word Kaczism. English is not Polish to spell this word as kaczyzm. In English is ending -ism, but not -yzm!

Agreed, but please see WP:REDIRECT and Help:Move on how to properly move pages.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  19:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Thus all is now OK. Kaczism is named as it should be correctly named in English. .—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wikinger (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Page protection

I received a request by Roo72 to punish "vandalism". Being completely unfamiliar with the subject, I cannot judge which version of the article is more correct. What I saw, anyway, was not clear vandalism but a revert war. It doesn't matter who started it. I protected the page so all interested editors can discuss the article properly. The protection note explicitly tells everyone that protection is not an endorsement of the current version. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 23:22, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I have not asked you to "punish" anything or anyone, I have asked you to have a look at the current situation where an anonymous contributor was constantly adding POV and false information to the article (as well as making personal attacks on my talk page but what the heck, let’s pretend we are all grown-ups and ignore this minor infringement).
As it stand now the article satisfies all NPOV and verifiability rules, it’s an almost verbatim translation of the Polish-language article that is considered to be neutral in tone (and it took a while too accomplish too). Cheers, Roo72 04:12, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
My take on our anonymous friend’s version:
my friend, I will answer you with a pleasure, but it's not my version it's version of several other users (see history).
Kaczism (Polish: kaczyzm) (IPA pronunciation: [kætʃizm]) is a term used used in smear campaign before parliement elections by oponents of the Polish Law and Justice (Prawo i Sprawiedliwość) party. Mainly by former communist (SLD) leader Joanna Senyszyn and other left-wing political activists.
There was no “smear campaign” (source please), the word was used by many different people from all over the Polish political scene. It was not “mainly used by SLD” - (source please – do you have a statistical analysis of its use in the media?). The whole paragraph is very loaded and misleading.
yes there was, and you provided the source already in your version - Joanna Senyszyn and her Sejm speach is one of the examples. Without any proofs of fascism its smear campaign


The word itself is derived from the surname of the PiS party leaders (Kaczyński) and is considered as an element of mudslinging because it resembles the Polish word for fascism (faszyzm) when in reality many members of PiS party, and their families has been persecuted by Adolf Hitler regime. For instance father of Kaczyński brothers was soldier of Armia Krajowa, that was main force of anti-fascism underground movement in Poland during WWII.
Correct, that’s where the word is derived from but it is not in itself a negative word so it cannot be considered to be “an element of mudslinging”, as it is noted below its first usage was in a quite positive way. The fact that “many members of PiS party, and their families has been persecuted by Adolf Hitler regime” is neither here nor there. Just like the first paragraph, it’s very loaded and emotional.
its negative because it "resembles polish word for fascism" (as you has written) and without any single proof its simply mudslinging.
Despite the political propaganda, it was at first used in positive sense (just like for example thatcherism) in February 2006 when it appeared on the pages of the weekly Wprost[1] where it was to describe in the positive sense the political standings of the Kaczyński brothers.
There is no “political propaganda”, the word is in common use, it is wildly known and commonly used (just Google for it). Another loaded sentence where we get some emotional “despite political propaganda” instead of just being given the facts (as in the current version – “Its first recorded use was in February 2006 when it appeared on the pages of the weekly Wprost[1] where it was used to describe the political doctrine of the Kaczyński brothers in a positive sense (just like for example Thatcherism)”).
no its not used broadly, what you have shown is that in negative meaning it is used only by polish former communists' and their activists' blogs and www pages. Please show us proofs of fascism in PiS party, in other case it simply is political propaganda.
Other widly broadcasted use: former communist Joanna Senyszyn (now Democratic Left Alliance) during a parliamentary debate in the Polish Sejm[2].
“Widly broadcasted use”? True, she mentioned it in her speech and that’s how it became popular but I don’t consider it to have been “widely broadcasted”. Another emotionally loaded sentence (not to mention poorly linked as the words “communist”, “SLD”, and “Joanna Senyszyn” have been already linked to their articles).
its not popular word, its used only by some political oponents of PiS party, please show me the sources where other parties' electorate uses it or people other then politicians and their supporters.
The whole article is written in a very loaded, emotional way but it’s quite light on the facts and very liberal on the truth. Roo72 04:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
as for current (your) version - you're right.217.98.20.195 10:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../k/a/c/Talk%7EKaczism_6fb3.html"