Talk:Juliusz Nowina-Sokolnicki

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[edit] Various sources and an opinion about Mr. Nowina's place in history

The following are a number of published works verifying legitimacy of the Polish Government (In Exile) of President Juliusz Sokolnicki. Other important publications are currently in the research and prepublication stage and these will be added to the list as soon as they have been published. Perhaps it is worth mentioning that Sokolnicki's (and Zaleski's) Government papers currently occupy several basements in various locations in England. At some time in the not too distant future it will dawn on the current Polish Republic that an entire period in Poland's history is 'missing'. Perhaps only then will the reality of the importance of President Zaleski and President Sokolnicki finally be realized by modern Polish historians.

1. Order of Saint Stanislas Statues of 1979 (with changes as of 1984).

    Author: General Tadeusz Jagoszewski
    Publisher: 1984. Polish Government (In Exile), London.
    ISBN: 
    Available: Out of Print 

    This book contains the original statutes of the re-established Order of Saint   
    Stanislas as laid down by the late Polish Government (In Exile). 

2. Order of Saint Stanislas 1765 
    Author: Captain Michael Subritzky-Kusza Ct, GCStS.
    Publisher: 1994. Three Feathers Publishing. New Zealand. 
    ISBN: 0-473-02931-6
    Available: Out of Print 

    This book contains a brief history of the legitimate Polish Government (In    
    Exile), photographs of the various Grand Masters and as well the constitution of  
    the Order of Saint Stanislas as of 1990 when it was made an "Independent"  
    charitable Order of chivalry. 

3. History of the Polish Government (in Exile) (1939 - 1990) 
    Author: Captain Michael Subritzky-Kusza Ct, GCStS.
    Publisher: 1996. Three Feathers Publishing. New Zealand.
    ISBN: 0-958-3484-8-0
    Available: Saint Stanislas Foundation,
    101 Timbergate Drive,
    South Carolina 29073-9009
    UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. 

    A most important monograph on the history of the late Polish Government (In   
    Exile) written by a well known New Zealand author who knew at first hand  
    virtually all of the major players in the 'Exile' community. This book is backed 
    up by numerous verified documents and a number of photographs, including several  
    showing Lech Walesa, the then head of 'Solidarity' accepting decorations and  
    awards from Ministers in Sokolnicki's Government (In Exile) 

4. Comuniques of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Polish Government (in  
     Exile)  1983-1985 
    Author: General Waclaw Hryniewicz-Bakierowski
    Publisher: 1997. Holland Press. USA.
    ISBN:
    Available: Out of Print 

    General Hryniewicz-Bakierowski is a Polish national hero from World War II who   
     was loyal to President Zaleski and remained loyal to President Sokolnicki after  
     the death of President August Zaleski. 

5. America Wake-Up! 
    Author: General Waclaw Hryniewicz-Bakierowski
    Publisher: 1997. Holland Press. USA.
    ISBN:
    Available: Out of Print 

6. Poezje Zebrane(opisalem co widzialem, myslalem i czulem) 
    Author: General Waclaw Hryniewicz-Bakierowski
    Publisher: 1997. WERS. Poland.
    ISBN: 83-86906-46-4 
    Available: Wydawnictwo WERS, ul. Wroclawska 19/1,
    61-838 Poznan, tel. komorkowy 0602357498.
    Poland. 

7. Wspomnienia Mysliwskie 
    Author: General Waclaw Hryniewicz-Bakierowski
    Publisher: 1997. WERS. Poland.
    ISBN: 83-86906-36-7 
    Available: Wydawnictwo WERS, ul. Wroclawska 19/1,
    61-838 Poznan, tel. komorkowy 0602357498.
    POLAND. 

8. Szkice 0 Ameryce i Trujacej Zywnosci 
    Author: Konstanty Z. Hanff, PhD.
    Publisher: 1997. WERS. Poland.
    ISBN: 
    Available: Wydawnictwo WERS, ul. Wroclawska 19/1,
    61-838 Poznan, tel komorkowy 0602357498.
    POLAND. 

9. Rewizja Historii 
    Author: Konstanty Z. Hanff, PhD.
    Publisher: 1997. WERS. Poland.
    ISBN: 83-901606-7-6 
    Available: Wydawnictwo WERS, ul. Wroclawska 19/1,
    61-838 Poznan, tel komorkowy 0602357498.
    POLAND. 

    Another important work which covers the various political activities of the late
    Polish Government (In Exile), and as well the 'Central European Council' (with   
    photographs) which was the all encompassing umbrella that the various 'Exile'  
    groups were involved in.

10. Rewizja Historii (Tom II)

     Author: Konstanty Z. Hanff, PhD.
     Publisher: 1997. WERS. Poland.
     ISBN: 83-86906-91-X 
     Available: Wydawnictwo WERS, ul. Wroclawska 19/1,
     61-838 Poznan, tel komorkowy 0602357498.
     POLAND

[edit] No Wikipedia Objectivity

Obviously Wikipedia editors do not read the articles the lock and block. If there was even a pretense of neutrality terms like "illegal" or "self-styled" would not be allowed. Perhaps they should actually proof-read a disputed article?

The revert-bots in use apparently dont actually read the article, they just revert it back to its last "approved" form. I and others have tried to start an Order of St. Stanislas page, but the great and open minds of Wikipeda delete it and redirect it to the Order of St. Stanislaus instead which is sometimes mostly neutral but is generally biased with using enlightened terms like "self-styled" and "bogus." Cant say which is worse, the supposed "neutrality" of Wikipedia or the idiots who keep using perjorative terms.

[edit] How to get to write an article?

Dear 64.12.116.201, The logbook that showed us

  • "(cur) (last) 13:10, 13 August 2006 84.57.186.132 (Talk)
  • (cur) (last) 20:53, 12 August 2006 69.165.176.101 (Talk)
  • (cur) (last) 20:53, 12 August 2006 69.165.176.101 (Talk)
  • (cur) (last) 14:30, 12 August 2006 84.57.182.188 (Talk)
  • (cur) (last) 14:09, 12 August 2006 69.165.176.101 (Talk)
  • (cur) (last) 09:52, 12 August 2006 84.57.182.188 (Talk)
  • (cur) (last) 00:29, 7 August 2006 69.165.176.101 (Talk)
  • (cur) (last) 00:29, 7 August 2006 69.165.176.101 (Talk) "

Says it all. People do not agree about Mister Nowina and his proper name, style, title, function or presidency. Editing in this pace, merely adding and removing the words " self styled", " so-called" and " bogus" indeed does not produce a Wiki article. The talk pages are there to find a solution but many of the interested partners are anonymus and do not care to discuss the matters before us.

The article as it now is not neutral. part of it is factual though. As it is the article is not growing. I find that dissapointing. As a Dutchman I am very fond of the " Free Poles" who helped to liberate my country and stood firm against the communist tyrants for so long. The problem is that, in the end, there were two Polish governments in London. Only the legitimite one could create or restore an Order of Knighthood. People will never agree on what was the real Polish government in exile!


Orders of Knighthood are institutions of the State and they are governed by law. Both Orders of Saint Stanislaus are trying to create myths. The words "ecclasiastically officialy" in describing the Polish Order, The word" Souvereign" in the former name of the Londen Order are both smokescreens. They are modeling themselves on the Order of Malta.

As it is I conclude that:

  • We can not even start to write an article on Mister Nowina because nobody agrees about his name.
  • There are four flourishing Orders of Saint Stanislaus, sadly enough they neither seem to respect nor acknowledge each other.
  • The followers of the Orders do not respect the rule that Wikipedia should be neutral. They use it as an instrument for self promoting and defamating each other.

I propose to stick to the page describing the historic order with links to the four existing orders.A ban on anonymus contributors would also be helpfull.

Faithfully yours,

Robert Prummel Robert Prummel 21:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)( not involved with one of the Orders of Saint Stanislaus)

Apparently various people have tried to create a page for the Order of St. Stanislas that was created in 1979. It is always denied since the Wikipedia luminaries simply redirect it the St. Stanislas page. Whoever keeps reverting that page also destroys the links to the other 3 Orders of St. Stanislas sites. It is no wonder those who might support Mr. Sokolnicki and his charitable activities are probably not too particularly pleased with having to see terms such as "self-styled," "bogus," illegal," or other slanderous perjoratives attached to Mr. Sokolnicki. And truthfully, without any subtantiated proof provided calling anyone names like that is not only childish and defeats the purpose of trying to present any fundementally correct information. In my view, if an article can not be balanced then it should be pulled.

There is nothing to discuss as long as people insist upon using "self-styled," "illegal," etc. Slander should not be tolerated, if you want to discuss something, fine, but obviously it cant be done on this subject with any decorum.

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