Talk:Judge Dredd

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Judge Dredd article.

Contents

[edit] Dead man spoiler

I removed the following passage about The Dead Man storyline due to the spoiler content. It is good stuff however, and IMO should be included in the entry somehow. I thought about adding the spoiler warning right before this line, but that would've been silly (see the diff between my edit and last). Any ideas? Warning: Wikipedia contains spoilers

His entire face is never shown in the strip (however, in the story The Dead Man, a prequel to the 1991 Necropolis epic, a badly acid scarred Dredd, minus helmet, is depicted throughout the story, although his identity is not revealed until episode's denounment).

Card 11:50 Apr 7, 2003 (UTC)

As the Dead Man story line appeared in October 1989 the majority of readers should know the spoiler and any related graphic novel that may see print one day isnt going to not play on the fact that its a Dredd story. W. R. Logan.

I'm not sure about that: I expect a lot of readers have started reading Dredd comics since 1989 and so missed it the last time around. The Dead Man was published as a graphic novel in 1990, and did not go out of its way to say that it was a Judge Dredd story: it just had a small tagline across the top of the cover saying "The Chronicles of Judge Dredd," and the introduction inside had a big spoiler warning on it. Since the revelation at the end is a big part of the story and one of the reasons it was so popular at the time, and so memorable today, they might take the same approach next time. Richard75 14:18, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link removal

Why have many of the links been removed from this article? Surely the Dredd mythos is as deserving of encylopedic attention as any other fictional universe, eg, Lord of the Rings?? Can we have the links back please! quercus robur

Well, if someone's prepared to actually give the Dredd mythos the attention, then there's some point to the links; but otherwise it's silly to have all those links to non-existant articles.
(NB: I'm not the one whole removed all the links, but I have some sympathy with the motivation I attribute to the person who did.) — Paul A 00:45 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Wikipedia is full of links to not yet existant articles, that surely is the whole point of the project??? quercus robur 16:25 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Ps, I've made a start by listing what are some of the most significant Dredd stories. Many of these link to not yet existant pages that will hopefully get fleshed out in time quercus robur 21:05 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Plato's Republic inspiration?

I'm sure I heard somewhere that Mills, Wagner et al. were partially inspired by Plato's Republic when creating the Judge system - there certainly are a lot of similarities between the two. If this is true it should certainly be mentioned.

[edit] Rebellion link

I added this link:

but it doesn't work. I intended to add a link to Rebellion.co.uk, but their web site is no longer available, so I included a link to the web.archive.org version. Are links to web.archive.org acceptable in this kind of case, and how do I get them to work? Phil Hibbs 19:25 Aug 17, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Satire

This article seems to be missing the key fact about the comic — that it is a satire. Mostly savage, often funny, always grotesque, but wholly satirical. Gdr 21:16, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)


That's not actually true - while the early period was clearly satirical, many of the later (and in some ways more gripping) tales are "straight" police procedurals.

[edit] Related characters

Where is Walter the Robot? GraemeLeggett 15:47, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Surely you mean Walter the Wobot??? quercus robur 18:05, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] No mention of the DC series?

Surprised there's NO mention at all of the DC series of the mid-'90s, written IIRC by Andrew Helfer and drawn by a pre-fame Mike Avon Oeming. MattShepherd 21:20, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Judge Death Video Game

Just found this... it's enough here that some info on the game should be posted. Right?

[edit] Joe/Joseph

I changed Dredd's 'official' first name to Joe because originally in the comic he was never referred to as Joseph. The name 'Joseph' first appeared in the movie version of Dredd, and so is (I believe) not truly canonical. I believe Dredd's name even appears on a plaque in the early comics as 'Joe Dredd', so it's possible that his full first name is 'Joe' and not 'Joseph'.

[edit] Suggest merging in America (Judge Dredd story)

The article America (Judge Dredd story) is a currently two sentence unreferenced stub about a Judge Dredd story. Should probably simply be merged into this article with appropriate citation. Dugwiki 21:15, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

It does bring up a wider issue there are quite a few separate entries for Dredd related stuff which refer to a single (someitmess minor) story arc and/or are in need of expanding:
Some of them a very minor characters. The House of Pain story may (or may not return) and might not even be notable enough for a mention on the main Dredd page (it does highlight a problem with recent material getting a heavy focus and old classics possibly not getting such attention but that is life is a work in progress - hopefully some fo that can be rectified in future). So the braoder question is: Is the American storyline worth its own entry? The American story [1] has been reprinted in its own graphic novel which shows some notability but at 2 runs with a otal of 62 pages it isn't a lot. The question should be how important it is for the main story? I'd suggest America could be merged here with a sentence or two. On the broader question which JD story arcs require a separate entry? I don't think House of Pain does, Necropolis probably does. What about characters? (Emperor 03:25, 17 June 2006 (UTC))
I agree - none of the pages you mention are notable enough to be worth keeping, and I bet there are a hell of a lot more out there. Unfortunately there seems to be something about the combination of comics fans and Wikipedia that every piece of knowledge, no matter how trivial, must be recorded, until reading about Judge Dredd on Wikipedia will eventually be indistinguishable from reading every Judge Dredd story. America and Necropolis are at least significant events in the history of the strip, and the Long Walk is a recurring theme, but I don't believe they're notable enough to deserve their own encyclopedia article. The other five are completely non-notable. I will propose them for deletion. --Nicknack009 11:48, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Checking the "what links here" page, there are a hell of a lot of subsidiary articles whose notabilty is debatable. Does every supporting character, every major storyline, every piece of technology, really need to have a page? --Nicknack009 12:15, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to disturb you but I was planning on creating individual articles for their respective stories. I could quite easily expand upon some of them. --SGCommand (talk • contribs) 12:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Ah you posted when I was posting - so I'll do a separate reply. ;) I'd just ask if every Judge Dredd story longer than a single issue is worth its own entry? If it was an iconic moment and an actual part of Mega City/Judge Dredd history like the Judge Child, etc. and the "Major Judge Dredd storylines" section has a pretty solid list of those major stories. House of Pain isn't one. America is up for debate. As it stands it probably the entry doesn't even qualify as much of a stub. It could justify its existence if it explained its notability but at the moment the paragraph linking to the entry is more informative than the entry itself. (Emperor 13:04, 17 June 2006 (UTC))
I will update those articles that I did though I won't get pics yet. --SGCommand (talk • contribs) 13:08, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I suppose my criteria for new entries are: size (has one specific section grown so much that it'd probably be better to have its own section) and normalisation (if it is mentioned in numerous entries then it is better to create a new entry so you don't have to explain the same thing a number of times). With the latter being my main criteria. To this end I think The Long Walk is worth keeping. I also see someone has put Judge (2000 AD) up for merging and I vote to keep that as there are numerous Judges and so it requires an extra entry to describe what this actually entails. Normalisation would also suggest that House of Pain, the Krush brothers and Monkey (and possibly Creep?) aren't required as they only appear once and even the 2000 AD database doesn't even bother having entries for most of those characters as it is really not necessary (leaving aside for now whether House of Pain is even worth more than a passing mention somewhere). (Emperor 13:04, 17 June 2006 (UTC))
Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) should be the guide here. In particular the first two points:
1. Major characters and notable minor ones (and places, concepts, etc.) in a work of fiction should be covered within the article on that work of fiction. If the article on the work itself becomes long, then giving such characters an article of their own is good practice (if there is enough content for the character).
2. Non-notable minor characters (and places, concepts, etc.) in a work of fiction should be merged with short descriptions into a "List of characters." This list should reside in the article relating to the work itself, unless either becomes long, in which case a separate article for the list is good practice. The list(s) should contain all characters, races, places, etc. from the work of fiction, with links to those that have their own articles.
--Nicknack009 14:00, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I added America with just a couple of sentences because I ran out of time. The entry could easily be expanded because America is probably the single most important Dredd story ever. I think John Wagner (the co-creator of Dredd) professed it his favourite and it's probably the best quality Dredd strip ever.
Beery 04:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
If you can make the entry so it has a claim to notability then I'd vote to keep it. The rules on notability (given above) certainly allow for that as "a work of fiction" is really an important Dredd story (in much the same way the various James Bond novels are. Equally the notability allows for separate entries on characters, races, places, etc. I would assume where they reoccur (see e.g. Ernst Stavro Blofeld). So the question is how notable is the America story? If you can expand the entry which gives good reason why it is important (esp. with wider implications for the Dreddverse) then I'd change my vote to keep it. (Emperor 19:59, 19 June 2006 (UTC))
I think we'd have to follow the example of other comic heroes, notably Spider-Man and Superman, where the major storylines are outlined in the article, with emphasis on their impact on the universe (the Spider-Man article is especially good for this). The only problem is, it would lead to a debate here about which storylines are important to the universe. America is, in my opinion, simply an excellent story and comic, but is not all that important to the Dreddverse, compared to storylines such as Mechismo, the Judge Child, and so on. Superbo 12:25, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but there are whole catgeories devoted to specific storylines for Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern [2] as well as Spiderman and other Marvel characters [3] so I am unsure the examples work as an aruement against (more and arguement for). Looking through the example you highlight, Spider-Man, they have a paragraph on major storylines and then link off to pages covering quite a few of them which is exactly what we have here (and it seems a good way to do things). I'd argue that the "epic" storylines need seperate entries (as some of them have) and a "Judge Dredd storylines" category - the question is what counts: Robot Wars, The Cursed Earth and Necropolis = yes. House of Pain = no. America = maybe - I'm not convinced and it'd need further proving but I am prepared to err on the side of caution if there was a longer entry proving it. So if we follow the example of Spider-Man and Superman (which I agree we should) then we are pretty much on the right lines we just need to agree on the details (or err on the side of caution if we can't). (Emperor 19:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC))
America Book 3 has just been announced in the latest Megazine so I'm changing my vote from maybe to keep on both Judges and America. The latter still needs expanding. (Emperor 16:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC))

OK this has been up for discussion for a while now and I'm calling it no consensus (at beast - discussion on the Judge entry is overwhelmingly keep) - I think we have got the right balance at the moment - yes to epics like Necropolis, etc. and no to House of Pain (for now but there may be returns to the story). Also events have overtaken the America entry as there is another installment in the pipeline which pretty much clinchs things. That said it needs expanding.

We also nee to keep an eye on the major storylines section to make sure it doesn't bloat (for example I don't think Regime Change counts) and I'd like to see only one entry per storyline - Doomsday for Dredd/Doomsday for Mega City One and Terror/Total War should only have one entry (I'd propose Doomsday and Total War for them). (Emperor 15:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Mega City category?

There are a few entries on different Mega Citieis and probably more to come (Emerald Isle, Sino-City, Indo-City, etc.?):

Would it be worth creating a Mega City sub-category in Judge Dredd and probably Fictional towns and cities (Emperor 13:04, 17 June 2006 (UTC))

I'd rather a "Judge Dredd locations" as this can then take in other areas like the Cursed Earth and the Undercity. (Emperor 15:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Most famous?

This statement in the introduction, "The character is now certainly Britain's most famous home-grown comic book character", is one I'm not convinced of. What criteria are we looking at here? If you were to stop someone in the street in the UK and ask them to name a British comics character I think most of them would go for Dennis The Menace or Desperate Dan. Bear in mind just how succesful and long-lasting the Beano and the Dandy are. Do we have a source for this comment? If not I think it should be removed or at least changed. --Stenun 20:10, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

You could claim he is, under the differing definition of comic to comic book. In the UK, comics, generally are associated with children. Comic book character might be associated with older audiences. How about "The character is now certainly Britain's most famous home-grown action comic character" Now you could mention Dan Dare, but Dan Dare is utterly unknown outside Britain. Dredd has some fame in the USA. Magic Pickle 17:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality

The section detailing the 1995 film is biased. Stating facts about the film is one thing -- for example, 'it was a commerical failure' -- but subjectivity ('the writers largely omitted the ironic humour of the comic strip') is something else. Citation is needed for 'In America, the film won several "worst film of the year" awards'.

[edit] Influence on

Could there be a section added on the influence of Dredd, particularly on movies? RoboCop for one seems to be basically Dredd by another name, and the cityscapes in the Star Wars prequels and the Fifth Element look pretty similar to Mega City One 213.146.128.146

I agree, but it'd need some pretty solid references to go in the article, and would be largely reliant on creators of possibily derivative works admitting an influence. I agree about RoboCop basically being Dredd to the point where I'm surprised that Dredd's copyright holder didn't have strong words, but I don't see its creator(s) willingly acknowledging that.
—Chris (blather • contribs • e) 14:33, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
Agreed - if you can find sources for it (interviews or possibly something in making of documentaries or books) then feel free to add it but I suspect it'd largely be speculation. If you are unsure drop a note in here and we'll look at it before you make it live on the main entry. (Emperor 16:51, 18 September 2006 (UTC))

[edit] When Dredd was black?

Should we have a mention of the fact that Dredd was originally drawn as a black man but because the series was in B&W nobody picked up on this? --Charlesknight 21:41, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Joeseph

I cannot remember Joe ever been referred to as Joeseph in the comics only the movie? --Charlesknight 10:33, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] help me word this.

OK as of 2000ad 1515 we know that Dredd was 1) Born in 2066; 2) was aged during the process so he was 5 when "born"; was one of six original clones (with rico being another). Anyone think of a good way to word that? --Charlesknight 21:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Something like "The cloning process commenced in ?? and he was 'born' in ?? when he was of an equivalent development to a 5-year-old child." (Emperor 21:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC))
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